Experiences with taking day train from Paris to Switzerland....
Jun 28th, 2004, 06:34 AM
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Experiences with taking day train from Paris to Switzerland....
For those of you who have helped me over the last month trying to sort out my vacation plans with my husband, son and parents in tow...thanks for your patience. We have decided to take a day train from Paris to Montreux and spend the night before going on to Venice by train (in December). We're doing this to give us all some (hopefully) beautiful scenery of the Alps and to give our trip a more wintery-snowy Christmas feel. I'd love to hear any experiences you may have had, or descriptions of the scenery from such a train. Thanks.
Jun 28th, 2004, 07:44 AM
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Hi sandi_travelnut,
Your trip sounds nice! I'm not sure what you expect Montreux to be like, but it probably won't be the "wintery-snowy Christmas feel" you may be looking for. Montreux has a very mild climate and is known as the "Riviera" of Switzerland. I was there in late November once, and though it was cold and merchants were setting up fake-wooden chalets along the lakeside for the Christmas market, there wasn't much of a white-Christmas feel. Of course, you can see the snow-capped mountains across the lake, but they're a ways away.
Your train will take you over (or under??) the Simplon Pass, so you have the opportunity to see some snowy mountains up close through your train window . . . if that's what you want! To get some idea of what Simplon looks like, you can surf around www.simplon.ch. You can also hunt for images by doing a photo search at www.webshots.com.
Personally, I don't think an hour or so of window-wintery scenes is worth the six or seven hour trip. Surely there's a budget flight from Paris to Venice??
Hope this helps --
s
Your trip sounds nice! I'm not sure what you expect Montreux to be like, but it probably won't be the "wintery-snowy Christmas feel" you may be looking for. Montreux has a very mild climate and is known as the "Riviera" of Switzerland. I was there in late November once, and though it was cold and merchants were setting up fake-wooden chalets along the lakeside for the Christmas market, there wasn't much of a white-Christmas feel. Of course, you can see the snow-capped mountains across the lake, but they're a ways away.
Your train will take you over (or under??) the Simplon Pass, so you have the opportunity to see some snowy mountains up close through your train window . . . if that's what you want! To get some idea of what Simplon looks like, you can surf around www.simplon.ch. You can also hunt for images by doing a photo search at www.webshots.com.
Personally, I don't think an hour or so of window-wintery scenes is worth the six or seven hour trip. Surely there's a budget flight from Paris to Venice??
Hope this helps --
s
Jun 28th, 2004, 08:27 AM
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Yep, a flights in our budget but the problem is the weight of the bags. Volareweb and others are very strict on the bags and travelling in the winter with sweaters, coats etc..we'll have to pay 7 euro per kilo over their maximum plus 20 euro per bag that's over the limit. We may change the city from Montreux to something else. I didn't know it was a warmer climate. I saw winter pics of it and it was snowy. My mistake.
Jun 28th, 2004, 10:40 AM
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sandi_travelnut,
Ok, makes sense. Why not plan to stop in Simplon-Dorf, right on your route? I think it's an hour from Montreux. Just be sure to get on a train that actually stops there as it's a small station. Alternately, you could aim for Visp or Brig -- while not really in the mountains, it'll be more of the atmosphere you're looking for, I think. Again, they're right on your route.
Maybe someone else will come in with a good idea!
s
Ok, makes sense. Why not plan to stop in Simplon-Dorf, right on your route? I think it's an hour from Montreux. Just be sure to get on a train that actually stops there as it's a small station. Alternately, you could aim for Visp or Brig -- while not really in the mountains, it'll be more of the atmosphere you're looking for, I think. Again, they're right on your route.
Maybe someone else will come in with a good idea!
s
Jun 28th, 2004, 10:51 AM
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December is always tricky with snow. The trains do indeed run through the Simplon tunnel and the chance to see snow in a village right on your route is quite low.
What if you take the TGV from Paris to Bern and continue to Kandersteg? This village is at 1200 m elevation and has a higher chance to get snow early. At least it is right in the mountains (gorgeous scenery). And it is also located on the main route to Italy (Milan). You will pass the Lötschberg tunnel and connect with the Simplon route in Brig.
Hope this helps, Ingo
What if you take the TGV from Paris to Bern and continue to Kandersteg? This village is at 1200 m elevation and has a higher chance to get snow early. At least it is right in the mountains (gorgeous scenery). And it is also located on the main route to Italy (Milan). You will pass the Lötschberg tunnel and connect with the Simplon route in Brig.
Hope this helps, Ingo
Jun 28th, 2004, 01:26 PM
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Hi again sandi_travelnut,
Did your husband mention Kandersteg because he would like to return or because he was ruling it out??
Kandersteg appears to be the BEST bet for you. The trip from Paris is about 6h51, 6h44, or 6h20, all with two changes (either Geneva or Lausanne, and Berne). The trip from Kandersteg to Venice is 5.58 with one change in Brig.
I looked into connections to Interlaken, and it'll take 6h41 or 6h51 to get there from Paris, and then of course you have the additional 30 minutes or so to get into the villages. The trip to Venice from Interlaken Ost is 6h27.
Another possibility is the town of Zermatt. The trip from Paris to Zermatt is 7h03 with changes in Geneva and Visp; the trip on to Venice is 6h27 with one change.
So I think Kandersteg is your best bet -- Ingo had the best idea (no surprise there!). At Kandersteg, you won't have to take any further trains to get that "snowy village" atmosphere, and you can spend the rest of your day and night strolling the town and stretching your legs.
So I think the decision boils down to this: either a long detour to get to the snow, or stick with Montreux and enjoy the Belle Epoque atmosphere. Montreux is wonderful and very scenic; it's just not "snowy chalet" scenic.
I guess you've ruled out the direct night train from Paris to Venice? Your parents might not enjoy that much of a challenge . . .
Hope this helps.
s
Did your husband mention Kandersteg because he would like to return or because he was ruling it out??
Kandersteg appears to be the BEST bet for you. The trip from Paris is about 6h51, 6h44, or 6h20, all with two changes (either Geneva or Lausanne, and Berne). The trip from Kandersteg to Venice is 5.58 with one change in Brig.
I looked into connections to Interlaken, and it'll take 6h41 or 6h51 to get there from Paris, and then of course you have the additional 30 minutes or so to get into the villages. The trip to Venice from Interlaken Ost is 6h27.
Another possibility is the town of Zermatt. The trip from Paris to Zermatt is 7h03 with changes in Geneva and Visp; the trip on to Venice is 6h27 with one change.
So I think Kandersteg is your best bet -- Ingo had the best idea (no surprise there!). At Kandersteg, you won't have to take any further trains to get that "snowy village" atmosphere, and you can spend the rest of your day and night strolling the town and stretching your legs.
So I think the decision boils down to this: either a long detour to get to the snow, or stick with Montreux and enjoy the Belle Epoque atmosphere. Montreux is wonderful and very scenic; it's just not "snowy chalet" scenic.
I guess you've ruled out the direct night train from Paris to Venice? Your parents might not enjoy that much of a challenge . . .
Hope this helps.
s
Jun 28th, 2004, 01:41 PM
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My husband was mentioning Kandersteg as a possible option because he remembers it being very lovely. The overnight train was one of the options that I priced out for us and my parents but when we land it all out on the table as to the options at hand they would rather see the Alps during the day than sleep thru them. I believe that Rail Europe told me there was a direct train from Paris to Montreux and Montreux to Venice...I was hoping we wouldn't have to change trains....guess I was hoping for too much? Thanks everyone...
Jun 28th, 2004, 01:46 PM
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We took a train from Paris to Bern, then overnighted in Bern and proceeded to Milan. It was one of the most beautiful train rides I've ever been on. But it was in the summer. I'm assuming the route works in winter. I would agree with Swandav that going past Bern to your first destination would make for a great journey.
Hi S'! Are you in a Switzerland frame of mind?
Hi S'! Are you in a Switzerland frame of mind?
Jun 28th, 2004, 01:57 PM
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Hello once again,
You are gonna be so sick of me . . . but I'm just in a posting frenzy!
Anyway, please don't trust RailEurope for details of schedules. The train from Paris to Montreux is "direct" but does require one change, either in Geneva or in Lausanne. There is a direct, 0 change, train from Montreux to Venice that leaves at 9.56 in the am (arrives at 16.09).
I also thought of maybe the Pays d'Enhaut (the villages of Rougemont & Chateau d'Oex) or maybe the Saanenland (Saanen & Gstaad), all are above Montreux enroute to Interlaken. But the trip there is about as long as the one to Zermatt -- just over 7 hours. The altitude is too low to guarantee snow, but they're beautiful, charming villages. Anyway, I'm going to Gstaad myself at Christmas, so I thought I'd throw it out there (I'll be happy with no snow . . . ).
Best schedules are at www.rail.ch.
Hi Gh! I'm thinking of you, bogged down in work! And . . . when am I *not* in a CH frame of mind??
s
You are gonna be so sick of me . . . but I'm just in a posting frenzy!
Anyway, please don't trust RailEurope for details of schedules. The train from Paris to Montreux is "direct" but does require one change, either in Geneva or in Lausanne. There is a direct, 0 change, train from Montreux to Venice that leaves at 9.56 in the am (arrives at 16.09).
I also thought of maybe the Pays d'Enhaut (the villages of Rougemont & Chateau d'Oex) or maybe the Saanenland (Saanen & Gstaad), all are above Montreux enroute to Interlaken. But the trip there is about as long as the one to Zermatt -- just over 7 hours. The altitude is too low to guarantee snow, but they're beautiful, charming villages. Anyway, I'm going to Gstaad myself at Christmas, so I thought I'd throw it out there (I'll be happy with no snow . . . ).
Best schedules are at www.rail.ch.
Hi Gh! I'm thinking of you, bogged down in work! And . . . when am I *not* in a CH frame of mind??
s
Jun 29th, 2004, 08:22 AM
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Raileurope is awful, don't even bother using it. It nearly made me change my trip plans, had I relied on it I wouldn't have gone to Vevey and instead would have overnighted in Geneva. long story. basically, look elsewhere, incomplete information is as bad as no information in my opinion!
Jun 29th, 2004, 10:05 AM
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Wow, thanks for letting me know. Would you also recommend not purchasing rail passes from them too? So, www.rail.ch would be best for the Paris-Montreux(?) and the Montreux(?)-Venice depature times? I feel that I post way too often but I have so many questions!
Jun 29th, 2004, 10:12 AM
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I don't know about rail passes, I am just thankful someone directed me to a real rail site!
I used ricksteves.com for my rail pass, he also gives you a 20% off coupon to buy further stuff (if you need anything) and you get a rail map of Europe, a DVD (which I never did look at) that supposedly tells you how to use your pass and also has footage of the area you are visiting.. a few other things. I basically just used the pass and didn't look at anything else though.
I used ricksteves.com for my rail pass, he also gives you a 20% off coupon to buy further stuff (if you need anything) and you get a rail map of Europe, a DVD (which I never did look at) that supposedly tells you how to use your pass and also has footage of the area you are visiting.. a few other things. I basically just used the pass and didn't look at anything else though.
Jun 29th, 2004, 10:57 AM
#15
Will the Montreux onward to Venice be by day train or night train then?
I have a friend who lives in Montreux and sometimes they do get snow. It's just that those towns (Geneva, Lausanne, Vevey, Montreux, etc.) are at lake-level not up in the mountains, therefore the milder climate (quite similar often to my home in Seattle, Wash US). But it is a lovely area for sure!
I have a friend who lives in Montreux and sometimes they do get snow. It's just that those towns (Geneva, Lausanne, Vevey, Montreux, etc.) are at lake-level not up in the mountains, therefore the milder climate (quite similar often to my home in Seattle, Wash US). But it is a lovely area for sure!
Jun 29th, 2004, 11:03 AM
#16
Oh yes, for my personal experience I've done night train Vevey to Venice, day train Venice to Vevey, night train Venice to Paris. On the day train back from Venice we changed at Sion (I believe it was). The scenery was OK but not spectacular. Though a beautiful part of the country the train is often running thru forest or the "backsides" of towns.
The kind of "Heidi" thing you're seeking, I saw when we took the siteseeing tram up the mountain from Montreux (Rocher de Naye, again I think that's right I'm at the office so guessing at spellings I have at home).
The kind of "Heidi" thing you're seeking, I saw when we took the siteseeing tram up the mountain from Montreux (Rocher de Naye, again I think that's right I'm at the office so guessing at spellings I have at home).
Jun 29th, 2004, 11:41 AM
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The reference library of a city near you may have the Thomas Cook European timetable. Table 42 shows through a TGV train, with restaurant car, from Paris Lyon at 0744 to Montreux at 1204, and other TGV trains with buffet car at 1304 and 1454 that involve a change at Lausanne.
From Montreaux to Milan there is a direct restaurant car tilting train, a Cisalpino train, from Montraux at 0956 to Venice at 1609. You want to leave Montreaux well back in a saloon car, facing forward. You will be reversed at Milan, but by then you are down in Lombardy.
Also there are restaurant car trains to Milan, then connecting trains to Venice, thus.
Montreaux 0656, Milan 0950 to 1105, Venice 1409
Or later, with an extra change, Montreaux 0720, Brig 0847 to 0902, Milan 1050 to 1105, Venice 1409
Montreaux 1120, Milan 1450 to 1505, Venice 1809
These are by day. By night a sleeper leaves Montreaux at 2325 for Venice at 0736, but you sleep through the glorious Alps.
I join condemnation of RailEurope, ill informed and high-charging. You can book through Euraide in Florida, http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...e/homepage.htm, telephone 1 941-480-1555 fax 1 941-480-1522 [email protected]). Also you can book through three firms in Britain:
Trainseurope Ltd, of Cambridgeshire and London, take credit card bookings by phone and mail tickets to any address. Have the widest access in Britain to rail systems and tickets. http://www.trainseurope.co.uk/ - E-mail [email protected]. Phone 00 44 900 195 0101 - calls from Britain cost 60p per minute, maximum 5, but if the enquiry results in a booking, the cost of the call is deducted from the final invoice. Phone Mon to Fri 10 to 5 British time
German Rail UK: www.deutsche-bahn.co.uk/ Phone : 00 44 870 243 53 63 then 6. Fax : 00 44 208 339 4700. E-mail : [email protected]
Ffestiniog Travel, site http://www.festtravel.co.uk, e-mail [email protected], phone 00 44 176 651 2400
For international tickets, berths and seats Trainseurope are ten percent cheaper than German Rail UK or Ffestiniog Travel. For domestic Italian trains they are cheaper again. German Rail UK are cheaper than Trainseurope or Ffestiniog Travel for domestic trains within Germany and may be competitive with them for international trips with a big proportion of miles in Germany. Trainseurope take Visa and MasterCard, but not Amex or Diners.
[email protected]
From Montreaux to Milan there is a direct restaurant car tilting train, a Cisalpino train, from Montraux at 0956 to Venice at 1609. You want to leave Montreaux well back in a saloon car, facing forward. You will be reversed at Milan, but by then you are down in Lombardy.
Also there are restaurant car trains to Milan, then connecting trains to Venice, thus.
Montreaux 0656, Milan 0950 to 1105, Venice 1409
Or later, with an extra change, Montreaux 0720, Brig 0847 to 0902, Milan 1050 to 1105, Venice 1409
Montreaux 1120, Milan 1450 to 1505, Venice 1809
These are by day. By night a sleeper leaves Montreaux at 2325 for Venice at 0736, but you sleep through the glorious Alps.
I join condemnation of RailEurope, ill informed and high-charging. You can book through Euraide in Florida, http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...e/homepage.htm, telephone 1 941-480-1555 fax 1 941-480-1522 [email protected]). Also you can book through three firms in Britain:
Trainseurope Ltd, of Cambridgeshire and London, take credit card bookings by phone and mail tickets to any address. Have the widest access in Britain to rail systems and tickets. http://www.trainseurope.co.uk/ - E-mail [email protected]. Phone 00 44 900 195 0101 - calls from Britain cost 60p per minute, maximum 5, but if the enquiry results in a booking, the cost of the call is deducted from the final invoice. Phone Mon to Fri 10 to 5 British time
German Rail UK: www.deutsche-bahn.co.uk/ Phone : 00 44 870 243 53 63 then 6. Fax : 00 44 208 339 4700. E-mail : [email protected]
Ffestiniog Travel, site http://www.festtravel.co.uk, e-mail [email protected], phone 00 44 176 651 2400
For international tickets, berths and seats Trainseurope are ten percent cheaper than German Rail UK or Ffestiniog Travel. For domestic Italian trains they are cheaper again. German Rail UK are cheaper than Trainseurope or Ffestiniog Travel for domestic trains within Germany and may be competitive with them for international trips with a big proportion of miles in Germany. Trainseurope take Visa and MasterCard, but not Amex or Diners.
[email protected]
Jun 29th, 2004, 12:41 PM
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Bless you Ben Haines! Thanks all for your wealth of information. I will have to re-read it all for it to sink and so I can decide exactly what to do.
And to answer your question suze, we were planning the day train leaving Paris before 0800.
And to answer your question suze, we were planning the day train leaving Paris before 0800.
Jun 29th, 2004, 01:21 PM
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An addendum to Ben Haines' excellent post: the direct TGV from Paris to Montreux (which actually continues all the way to Brig) is a seasonal service (the starting date for the coming winter season hasn't been released yet) and only runs on Saturdays.
At all other times, the train terminates in Lausanne. This is not a big deal though, since you just change in Lausanne for the short hop onwards to Montreux, adding only a few minutes to your journey time. If you want to minimize the luggage dragging though, Lausanne also makes for a pleasant overnight stop. The Cisalpino train to Venice stops there as well. Also, Lausanne will be a lot more lively in December than Montreux - its nice old town will be full of christmas shoppers.
Your best source for timetables are the Swiss Railways at:
www.rail.ch
Currently, the international timetables are only valid through December 12th.
You can and should purchase your TGV tickets up to 2 months ahead at:
www.sncf.com
There are early booking discounts as well as reduced prices for children and senior citizens available. Search this forum for one of the numerous threads explaining how to prepay and pick up the tix when you arrive in France.
I would purchase tix for the Cisalpino train from Lausanne or Montreux to Venice upon arrival in Paris, when you pick up your prepaid TGV tickets.
Hope this helps,
Andre
At all other times, the train terminates in Lausanne. This is not a big deal though, since you just change in Lausanne for the short hop onwards to Montreux, adding only a few minutes to your journey time. If you want to minimize the luggage dragging though, Lausanne also makes for a pleasant overnight stop. The Cisalpino train to Venice stops there as well. Also, Lausanne will be a lot more lively in December than Montreux - its nice old town will be full of christmas shoppers.
Your best source for timetables are the Swiss Railways at:
www.rail.ch
Currently, the international timetables are only valid through December 12th.
You can and should purchase your TGV tickets up to 2 months ahead at:
www.sncf.com
There are early booking discounts as well as reduced prices for children and senior citizens available. Search this forum for one of the numerous threads explaining how to prepay and pick up the tix when you arrive in France.
I would purchase tix for the Cisalpino train from Lausanne or Montreux to Venice upon arrival in Paris, when you pick up your prepaid TGV tickets.
Hope this helps,
Andre
Jun 29th, 2004, 01:29 PM
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Hello Again,
sandi_travelnut, I highly recommend you go to the SBB site and play around with it -- you'll feel so much more confident when you're actually on the ground getting your trains. The site will even tell you which track your train arrives on & which track the next one departs from, so you'll know if you have a long trek or a quick hop when you change. The exception is for Lausanne, which is going through some construction on the platforms, so they're not giving platform numbers.
Anyway, if you don't feel like catching the early (07.44) train, there is one at 8.40, connecting in Geneva, arriving in Montreux at 13.19, or one at 10.30, connecting in Geneva, arriving at 15.19.
s
sandi_travelnut, I highly recommend you go to the SBB site and play around with it -- you'll feel so much more confident when you're actually on the ground getting your trains. The site will even tell you which track your train arrives on & which track the next one departs from, so you'll know if you have a long trek or a quick hop when you change. The exception is for Lausanne, which is going through some construction on the platforms, so they're not giving platform numbers.
Anyway, if you don't feel like catching the early (07.44) train, there is one at 8.40, connecting in Geneva, arriving in Montreux at 13.19, or one at 10.30, connecting in Geneva, arriving at 15.19.
s
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