My partner and I are busy planning a trip to Europe - March / April 2009. We have booked our flights - Cape Town to Heathrow - as we want to see friends there (bummer that South Africans now need visas!) We also would love to visit Italy (Romes, Venice, etc), France - Paris and we have been invited to stay over at a chateau in Aubusson (www.sallandrouze.com). Then we also want to go to Germany for a few days for see family - near Frankfurt. Also want to incl Berlin, etc. THen back to London for a few days with family. We will most likely buy rail tickets - I have followed that thread. Any other ideas and suggestions are very welcome at this stage!

Hi,

I wasn't quite sure how long you are going for ... 1 month / 2 months?

But you say you have booked your flights? Doesn't sound like they are open jaw - as that might have been better ... save you coming back from Italy to LOndon.

Would it be better to go London - Paris - Germany - Italy ... then home - might be worth you flying back from Italy to London - quicker - look at easyjet / ryan air etc.

Mark

topping for shingalana ... can anyone help?

Not sure what kind of help we can give at this stage. OP have their plate more than full, and they are not even saying how much time they have.

As I see it, the most helpful at this stage is to provide these few tools for them to use, then let them come back with more specific questions that we can try to answer.

For trains all over Europe (but not for pricing):
http://plannerint.b-rail.be/bin/quer...n?L=profi&

For trains in Germany and for many surrounding countries (some with pricing):
www.bahn.de

Italian trains at www.ferroviedellostato.it

French trains at www.voyages-sncf.fr and at www.tgv.com/

Budget flights at www.skyscanner.net and www.whichbudget.com

Railpasses best explained at www.ricksteves.com, ready-reckoner for pass-vs-p2p tix: www.railsaver.com

Train travel on night trains and others explained, mostly while based in the UK but not exclusively:
www.seat61.com/

&quot;<i>Any other ideas and suggestions are very welcome at this stage!</i>&quot;

Suggestions for what? You gave us a list of destinations but did not tell us how long the whole trip is?

W/o that info, one can't really give useful advice/suggestions

Looks like we ned a lot more info. What do you like to do, museum visits, restaurants, boat cruises etc.

For instance you are goin to Berlin which has a museum with wht looks like half of the babylon in it. Would that interest you or there is also a black restaurant (no lights) with blind waiters, would that interest you, or perhaps the canals of Berlin are your thing, or the bunkers of WW2 or check point charlie or travel off to the remaining towns of the hanseatic league which avoided bombing.

That is just one city on your list

Thanks to all for their replies. we have been doing lots of reading and researching. We will be in the UK from 23 - 28 March, when we fly to Paris. We fly out of Paris back to London on 12 April. So in between are the days we are still mulling over.

Option 1: Paris - Venice - Florence - Rome - (maybe Naples) - Nice - Limoges (Chateau stay in Aubusson) - Paris - London - home.

Option 2: Paris - Brugge - Koln - Berlin - ? - Zurich - Basel - Lyon - Limoges/Aubusson - Paris - London

As we had to get our Schengen visas on Friday - we had to have travel in & out of France booked, although I think we could change our return flight with easyjet - has anyone done this?

I guess my previous posting was too brief - but there are so many experts out there, we are hoping that sks will be able to advise which is the better option. Should we plan a separate and longer trip for Italy? We both have not been. I have been to the whole of Germany, Belgium, etc - I spent a whole year in Europe in the 80's, although my partner has never been to Germany and Belgium, etc.

I trust that this explain my thoughts more. And no I did not know about open jaw / multi cities, etc - but I do now!

hi shingalana,

have I got this right? - you want to fit <<Paris - Venice - Florence - Rome - (maybe Naples) - Nice - Limoges (Chateau stay in Aubusson) - Paris>> or <<Paris - Brugge - Koln - Berlin - ? - Zurich - Basel - Lyon - Limoges/Aubusson - Paris>> into 14 or so days? and stay sane?

holy moly!

<<Should we plan a separate and longer trip for Italy?>>

yep. if you abandon Italy, you could do Paris, Nice, Limoges, Paris, or Paris, Lyons, Limoges, Paris. However, neither make much sense as a route, because none of the other places you want to go to are anywhere near Limoges. Not only that, but generally, going east-west in central France, as opposed to gonig north south, can be very difficult. "All roads lead to Paris".

were you to abandon Limoges, you could do a nice trip like Paris, Nice, Lyons, Paris, or Paris, Brugge, Berlin, Paris.

Hope this helps a bit,

regards, ann

Hi Shin,

I'm with ann.

You have 2 weeks to vsit Paris and somewhere else.

Paris is worth a week.

The rest of France is worth another week.

Are you locked into RT London?

I must agree w/ ira and annhig - you have just over 2 weeks free. That is simply not enough time to see all you want in either of your options. Take into account you lose between 1/2 and 1 full day every time you move from city to city. After deducting all your travel, packing/unpacking, checking in/checking out, you'd have about 11 days to see 8 or 9 cities.

sorry - but, back to the drawing boards on this one . . . .

Thanks for the replies.
we definitely want to do Paris - overnight train to Rome - venice - Florence (not in this order)(maybe Naples & Pisa as an aside) before going to Aubusson - then Paris for a night before heading back to London. Remember we are South Africans - time is money and money is time. We have to times everything by nearly 14 to get the Rand value!

Ok my sister did the train journey to Venice and that was ok.

I suggest you then do Florence, Siena (Pisa, nothing at Pisa apart from an airport and one interesting square and a tower and honestly after Florence and Siena you will ask what all the fuss was about) then and Rome by train (not over night). Naples itself is pretty rough and once you have seen one volcano... Herculanium is worth a visit but given the position I would drop it for this visit. Now let me think about the next stage

Right, Aubusson as everyone else has said is in the middle of no where. So back on an overnight to Paris and then TGV down to this place. Back again to Paris and then London (unless we can find you some cheap flilghts. Think skyscanner.net may help

skyscanner.net suggests Lyon to London might save you the trip back to Paris and then to London, either way play around with it and see if you can get any deals.

ok Shin, this is how your 14 days/nights are shaping up:

Paris - 3 days/ 2 nights, plus overnight train to

Venice - 2 nights, train to

florence - 3 nights, train to

Pisa - 1 night, flight to Paris, train to

Aubusson - 1 night, train back to Paris

That's 10 nights. I suggest that rather than adding another place, you distribute your extra 4 nights amongst what you've got.

regards, ann

>>>Remember we are South Africans - time is money and money is time. We have to times everything by nearly 14 to get the Rand value!<<<

If that's the case then your itinerary doesn't make any sense. You need to slow down to save money, not hop on a train every second day.

If you're determined to squeeze as many places as possible into only 2 weeks, maybe look into doing a bus tour.

If staying at the chateau in Aubusson is important, you'll need to rent a car to get there. Why not rent an apartment in Paris for a week, then rent a car and do a short driving tour in the country?

If you want the Italian cities, and if you actually have 14 nights, then fly from London to Rome 4 nights (no side trips to Naples); train to Florence 3 nights (if you must do a day trip go to Sienna but Florence has more than enough to occupy your time); train to Venice 3 nights; fly to Paris 4 nights (then train back to London). It's still an extremely busy itinerary but doable.

If it were me, and budget was an issue, I would spend a week in Paris and then a week in one of Rome, Florence, or Venice. Rent an apartment, eat groceries, and perhaps take a day trip or two.

You probably aren't a "rookie" but you have made the rookie mistake of equating lots of places/stops as the budget way to travel. Could NOT be farther from the truth. All that travel will add huge expense to a 2 week trip.

Thanks for all the replies - much appreciated.