European Sampler, 4 weeks, 6 countries?
Jul 25th, 2017, 04:46 PM
#81
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"If never been to Amsterdam I'd stay there and day trip to regional towns not vice versa - Amsterdam glows after dark - especially along the many canals."
Not true: Rotterdam, Utrecht, even Haarlem or Leiden and The Hague are buzzing at night. The trick is not to think of them as "cities" but as New York boroughs. That's how close they are to each other. It's entirely possible to sample Amsterdam nightlife and get back on the train to Utrecht (25 minutes), Haarlem (15 minutes) or Leiden (30 minutes). Amsterdam is crazy with tourists, especially during summer, and it can be so nice to leave the city and go somewhere sane (and Dutch).
If you must be in Amsterdam, consider getting a hotel or B&B in Noord, across the IJ from central Amsterdam. There are a few beautiful places along Nieuwendammerdijk (a really, really special part of Amsterdam) and you get to the city by free ferry, while at night you can be in a rural idyl. Rent bikes to commute to the ferry and you're part of Amsterdam.
Not true: Rotterdam, Utrecht, even Haarlem or Leiden and The Hague are buzzing at night. The trick is not to think of them as "cities" but as New York boroughs. That's how close they are to each other. It's entirely possible to sample Amsterdam nightlife and get back on the train to Utrecht (25 minutes), Haarlem (15 minutes) or Leiden (30 minutes). Amsterdam is crazy with tourists, especially during summer, and it can be so nice to leave the city and go somewhere sane (and Dutch).
If you must be in Amsterdam, consider getting a hotel or B&B in Noord, across the IJ from central Amsterdam. There are a few beautiful places along Nieuwendammerdijk (a really, really special part of Amsterdam) and you get to the city by free ferry, while at night you can be in a rural idyl. Rent bikes to commute to the ferry and you're part of Amsterdam.
Jul 25th, 2017, 04:52 PM
#83
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Day 15 – June 21 travel to Rotterdam
21st-24th Near Rotterdam= 16 min to Rotterdam/Free parking $159 ($47)
Day 16 – Rotterdam
Day 17 – Rotterdam
Day 18 – Rotterdam
Day 19 – Travel to Utrecht June 24th
24th-28nd Near Utrecht= Guest apartment in country village $169 ($36)
Day 20 – Utrecht
Day 21 – Utrecht
Day 22 – Utrecht
I agree Rotterdam is well placed from Paris (2.5 hours by train). Parking? If you go by train? Otherwise it's a hassle and expensive.
Maybe do your day trips to Amsterdam from Rotterdam as well (40 minutes by IC direct, with a very small surcharge)
Rotterdam also gives you access to the Kinderdijk mills and Dordrecht, to Delft, Den Haag and Leiden.
Three days in Utrecht is a lot, but Utrecht is the train hub of the Netherlands, and you can easily get to everywhere from there, for instance to a city like Arnhem (beautiful and green and with a lot of recent military history), or the string of cities along the IJssel river (Hanseatic cities like Zwolle, Deventer and beautiful and ancient Zutphen)
If you really want to experiment I recommend Groningen in the north. Almost Scandinavia and a really special city. (3 hours by train from the west)
21st-24th Near Rotterdam= 16 min to Rotterdam/Free parking $159 ($47)
Day 16 – Rotterdam
Day 17 – Rotterdam
Day 18 – Rotterdam
Day 19 – Travel to Utrecht June 24th
24th-28nd Near Utrecht= Guest apartment in country village $169 ($36)
Day 20 – Utrecht
Day 21 – Utrecht
Day 22 – Utrecht
I agree Rotterdam is well placed from Paris (2.5 hours by train). Parking? If you go by train? Otherwise it's a hassle and expensive.
Maybe do your day trips to Amsterdam from Rotterdam as well (40 minutes by IC direct, with a very small surcharge)
Rotterdam also gives you access to the Kinderdijk mills and Dordrecht, to Delft, Den Haag and Leiden.
Three days in Utrecht is a lot, but Utrecht is the train hub of the Netherlands, and you can easily get to everywhere from there, for instance to a city like Arnhem (beautiful and green and with a lot of recent military history), or the string of cities along the IJssel river (Hanseatic cities like Zwolle, Deventer and beautiful and ancient Zutphen)
If you really want to experiment I recommend Groningen in the north. Almost Scandinavia and a really special city. (3 hours by train from the west)
Jul 25th, 2017, 07:36 PM
#84
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Hi PixieGal,
There is very convenient (and very cheap if bought at the right time) train service between London & Paris -- takes about 2h30. If you flew into Scotland and took the train to London, it would be more convenient for your trip into Paris and would eliminate two unnecessary flights.
Have fun as you plan!
s
There is very convenient (and very cheap if bought at the right time) train service between London & Paris -- takes about 2h30. If you flew into Scotland and took the train to London, it would be more convenient for your trip into Paris and would eliminate two unnecessary flights.
Have fun as you plan!
s
Jul 25th, 2017, 07:50 PM
#85
Hi,
You are going to have such a wonderful trip!
You got lots of amazing advice.
My two cents:
1) I like to stay close to an attraction that I really enjoy ( the view of the mediterranean sea in Capri, the Pantheon in Rome, the fountain in Residenzplatz in Salzburg etc..). So that first thing in the morning and after visiting the city/village, you always see it. The amazement morphs into familiarity.
I would encourage you not to stay in a suburb of Paris and commute. Stay in Paris close to all the attractions.
You are going to have such a wonderful trip!
You got lots of amazing advice.
My two cents:
1) I like to stay close to an attraction that I really enjoy ( the view of the mediterranean sea in Capri, the Pantheon in Rome, the fountain in Residenzplatz in Salzburg etc..). So that first thing in the morning and after visiting the city/village, you always see it. The amazement morphs into familiarity.
I would encourage you not to stay in a suburb of Paris and commute. Stay in Paris close to all the attractions.
Jul 25th, 2017, 07:58 PM
#86
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Just a few thoughts:
* I recommend Airbnb for you, especially if you can find 2- or 3-bedroom places. And if you go to smaller towns they are extremely affordable. Plus you can cook, and save money that way. And there are a ton of Airbnb places in Paris. Just read the reviews carefully, and make sure the hosts do not habitually cancel, and only consider places with lots of reviews.
* But you MUST go to some great restaurants in France. A handy tip is that many really excellent places have lunch specials (mostly on weekdays), where for 18 or 25 euros you can have a fabulous meal.
* Rotterdam but not Amsterdam? Yikes. Amsterdam is unmissable, but expensive.
* In France you might consider Nancy. Cheap Airbnbs, good food, incredible Art Nouveau architecture. Fast train from Paris.
* Also in France you might consider Lyon. A really lovely city, lots of sights, and the food is incredible (it is the "gastronomic capital of France") and again, lunch specials are affordable.
* Bruges is not far from Paris, via Thalys, and is almost absurdly beautiful.
* Instead of Amsterdam, you might stay in The Hague. A lovely place with some great art, and a shortish train ride from Amsterdam. Or Haarlem. But I like The Hague better...
* I recommend train travel over air travel. It's less stressful. Buy your train tix as early as they let you, for better prices.
* When choosing your Airbnb's, factor in how often you will need to do laundry, and make sure you have washer/dryers available at strategic points. Oh, and check the cancellation policies. "Strict" places mean what they say.
That's my (fairly random) two cents!
* I recommend Airbnb for you, especially if you can find 2- or 3-bedroom places. And if you go to smaller towns they are extremely affordable. Plus you can cook, and save money that way. And there are a ton of Airbnb places in Paris. Just read the reviews carefully, and make sure the hosts do not habitually cancel, and only consider places with lots of reviews.
* But you MUST go to some great restaurants in France. A handy tip is that many really excellent places have lunch specials (mostly on weekdays), where for 18 or 25 euros you can have a fabulous meal.
* Rotterdam but not Amsterdam? Yikes. Amsterdam is unmissable, but expensive.
* In France you might consider Nancy. Cheap Airbnbs, good food, incredible Art Nouveau architecture. Fast train from Paris.
* Also in France you might consider Lyon. A really lovely city, lots of sights, and the food is incredible (it is the "gastronomic capital of France") and again, lunch specials are affordable.
* Bruges is not far from Paris, via Thalys, and is almost absurdly beautiful.
* Instead of Amsterdam, you might stay in The Hague. A lovely place with some great art, and a shortish train ride from Amsterdam. Or Haarlem. But I like The Hague better...
* I recommend train travel over air travel. It's less stressful. Buy your train tix as early as they let you, for better prices.
* When choosing your Airbnb's, factor in how often you will need to do laundry, and make sure you have washer/dryers available at strategic points. Oh, and check the cancellation policies. "Strict" places mean what they say.
That's my (fairly random) two cents!
Jul 25th, 2017, 08:53 PM
#87
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On the Rough Guide, does it matter which year/edition? I just purchased the 2016 edition of Europe Through the Back Door, as I figured the newest would be the best. Does the same hols true for Rough Guide?
Jul 25th, 2017, 09:24 PM
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IME, newer guide books are generally better than older ones, but I wouldn't worry to much about the age of the guidebook -- while there are some exceptions, the main sites haven't changed all that much over the years! The things that change the most are hotel and restaurant recommendations, and I would urge you to NOT use guidebooks for those things, as that information becomes dated with surprising quickness. As others have already suggested, you would do well to consult booking.com for accommodations.
One thing that a really good guidebook can do is help you think about what your want to see / do in any given place. Unlike ratings on TA or trip reports, the information you get won't be "filtered" through the interests of other people -- you can gather information and identify things that might suit specific, idiosyncratic interests (at least with a good, comprehensive guidebook). If something seems interesting to YOU, even if not covered elsewhere, you can come back to us for input.
I would also noted that the Rough Guide is likely to give you much more comprehensive coverage than Rick Steves -- meaning that the Rough Guide is likely to cover more cities / towns / villages AND, within any place that both guidebooks cover, the Rough Guide is likely to provide much more thorough coverage of places you might want to see (churches, museums, parks, markets, palaces, day trips, whatever). At least, that's been my experience. The Lonely Planet's coverage will generally be similar to that of the Rough Guide; I prefer the way RG presents its maps; others prefer the LP maps.
I would urge you to read, or at least peruse, the sections of the introductory and concluding chapters of guidebooks that cover general travel topics. Although I would never DIScourage you from reading synopses of the history or arts or culture of the countries you visit, I would strongly ENcourage you to read about local foods, opening / business hours, tipping and other norms, ATM and internet and telecommunications options, transportation guidance, etc. And lest this list of things to read cause anxiety, don't worry -- the very GOOD news is that these things are, in fact, covered in better guidebooks.
Again, hope that helps!
One thing that a really good guidebook can do is help you think about what your want to see / do in any given place. Unlike ratings on TA or trip reports, the information you get won't be "filtered" through the interests of other people -- you can gather information and identify things that might suit specific, idiosyncratic interests (at least with a good, comprehensive guidebook). If something seems interesting to YOU, even if not covered elsewhere, you can come back to us for input.
I would also noted that the Rough Guide is likely to give you much more comprehensive coverage than Rick Steves -- meaning that the Rough Guide is likely to cover more cities / towns / villages AND, within any place that both guidebooks cover, the Rough Guide is likely to provide much more thorough coverage of places you might want to see (churches, museums, parks, markets, palaces, day trips, whatever). At least, that's been my experience. The Lonely Planet's coverage will generally be similar to that of the Rough Guide; I prefer the way RG presents its maps; others prefer the LP maps.
I would urge you to read, or at least peruse, the sections of the introductory and concluding chapters of guidebooks that cover general travel topics. Although I would never DIScourage you from reading synopses of the history or arts or culture of the countries you visit, I would strongly ENcourage you to read about local foods, opening / business hours, tipping and other norms, ATM and internet and telecommunications options, transportation guidance, etc. And lest this list of things to read cause anxiety, don't worry -- the very GOOD news is that these things are, in fact, covered in better guidebooks.
Again, hope that helps!
Jul 25th, 2017, 10:36 PM
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<<<<Traveler_Nick on Jul 23, 17 at 11:42am
Budget and the cities of London,Paris and Amsterdam don't go well together. >>>>
Paris is far from expensive.
It's still possible to find a reasonably priced hotel or AirBnb in Paris. Not so, in London or Amsterdam.
Budget and the cities of London,Paris and Amsterdam don't go well together. >>>>
Paris is far from expensive.
It's still possible to find a reasonably priced hotel or AirBnb in Paris. Not so, in London or Amsterdam.
Jul 25th, 2017, 10:40 PM
#90
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Also, can't believe all the scaremongering about Airbnb. I've used it on all my past trips and never did I have a problem.
You are really a bunch of Victorian "church ladies" as Kerouac so eloquently put it.
You are really a bunch of Victorian "church ladies" as Kerouac so eloquently put it.
Jul 25th, 2017, 11:11 PM
#91
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Locker, in Amsterdam and Paris, AirBnB is a scourge and pushes out local inhabitants. All the more reason not to be "that tourist", and avoid using it and similar services. Rather, invest in the place where you stay and book at independently run hotels.
Jul 25th, 2017, 11:28 PM
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I'm not sure I would be grateful to have someone who takes Loacker's position as a guest, no matter how much money involved. The expectation of gratitude for travel dollars is, IME, not the "exchange" I want. Instead, I find the money I pay MORE than fairly compensated by the opportunity to see and experience fascinating parts of the world. IMO, the least that >I< can do is to be grateful.
But then, I'm not an internet troll....
But then, I'm not an internet troll....
Jul 25th, 2017, 11:33 PM
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<<<<thursdaysd on Jul 24, 17 at 3:02pm
Afraid $50/night in big European cities is likely to mean hostels. However, many of them now have twin rooms, so you wouldn't have to sleep in a dorm, and most come with kitchens. >>>>
Not necessarily. In Paris you can find a few hotels in the $50-$70/night range. They are usually located in the 14th and 17th arrondissements. Check out Hotel Terminus Orleans or Hotel Darcet.
Granted they are not in the center, but as long as there's a metro station nearby, you have nothing to worry about.
Afraid $50/night in big European cities is likely to mean hostels. However, many of them now have twin rooms, so you wouldn't have to sleep in a dorm, and most come with kitchens. >>>>
Not necessarily. In Paris you can find a few hotels in the $50-$70/night range. They are usually located in the 14th and 17th arrondissements. Check out Hotel Terminus Orleans or Hotel Darcet.
Granted they are not in the center, but as long as there's a metro station nearby, you have nothing to worry about.
Jul 25th, 2017, 11:44 PM
#95
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'I'm bringing tourist money into their country. The least the residents can do is be grateful'
What an arrogant point of view. The resident that can no longer find affordable housing in those cities should be grateful to you?
What an arrogant point of view. The resident that can no longer find affordable housing in those cities should be grateful to you?
Jul 25th, 2017, 11:46 PM
#96
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@ Loacker: Please read and think before you post. (1) thursdaysd referred to likelihoods, not invariabilities. And (2) for someone looking for $50 / night lodging, $70 / night is a 40% increase – a not insubstantial increase.
Jul 25th, 2017, 11:59 PM
#97
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By Belvedere in London you don't mean the area of south east London called Belvedere do you???? DO NOT book a place there!!!
1. It is about a 45 min train ride into London Charing Cross or Cannon Street. You will then need to use the tube to get to where you want to go.
2. The area is not the most pleasant to stay in - not charming, no nice restaurants etc
3. The trains in the morning and at evening rush hour will be standing room only, squashed in like sardines at some points.
I live a couple stops down from this area so I am familiar with it.
Look for a place to stay within zone 1 on the tube map. Anywhere within the yellow circle line would do.
If you are looking for budget accommodation check out Premier Inn or Holiday Inn.
Don't go for cheap accommodation in the outer areas of London - it is a false economy. You will spend way more on your transit costs and waste a tonne of time. You may need to spend a bit more a night but it will be infinitely more worth your while.
1. It is about a 45 min train ride into London Charing Cross or Cannon Street. You will then need to use the tube to get to where you want to go.
2. The area is not the most pleasant to stay in - not charming, no nice restaurants etc
3. The trains in the morning and at evening rush hour will be standing room only, squashed in like sardines at some points.
I live a couple stops down from this area so I am familiar with it.
Look for a place to stay within zone 1 on the tube map. Anywhere within the yellow circle line would do.
If you are looking for budget accommodation check out Premier Inn or Holiday Inn.
Don't go for cheap accommodation in the outer areas of London - it is a false economy. You will spend way more on your transit costs and waste a tonne of time. You may need to spend a bit more a night but it will be infinitely more worth your while.
Jul 26th, 2017, 01:04 AM
#98
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I have stayed here before in London:
http://www.apple-apartments.com
I stayed at the Greenwich O2 Arena ones.
They are good value (for london) and an easy overground/underground ride into central London.
They do deals and for example have a 20% discount just now so a 2 bed apt is priced from £136 per night which is pretty good for July.
They have basic kitchen facilities and a Waitrose supermarket on site.
Helen
http://www.apple-apartments.com
I stayed at the Greenwich O2 Arena ones.
They are good value (for london) and an easy overground/underground ride into central London.
They do deals and for example have a 20% discount just now so a 2 bed apt is priced from £136 per night which is pretty good for July.
They have basic kitchen facilities and a Waitrose supermarket on site.
Helen
Jul 26th, 2017, 02:39 AM
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PixieGal --- old guidebooks are fine for now but next year, before you leave, double check online specific info like museum opening hours, train or ferry skeds, bike rental costs, yada etc. Also, realise currency values for euros & pounds vs US$ fluctuate, maybe in your favour or against it, so be prepared to make some adjustments next year.
Regarding this debate about central city/Zone 1 vs Other Perch, it will clear up once your family has figured out how much Standard Tourist Sightseeing you wish to do every day. I lived outside of "Zone 1" in London and never felt that I was outside of London or not experiencing it, all my neighbours considered themselves Londoners, and I also was able to walk to many points of real interest, including some museums -- but obviously I was not going to 5 famous tourist attractions of London every day. Again, a lot of people will tell you (even browbeat you!) that no point in spending any money to go to London if you leave without seeing X Y Z plus B R J and F. Depends on what you all decide upon for your vacation.
Regarding this debate about central city/Zone 1 vs Other Perch, it will clear up once your family has figured out how much Standard Tourist Sightseeing you wish to do every day. I lived outside of "Zone 1" in London and never felt that I was outside of London or not experiencing it, all my neighbours considered themselves Londoners, and I also was able to walk to many points of real interest, including some museums -- but obviously I was not going to 5 famous tourist attractions of London every day. Again, a lot of people will tell you (even browbeat you!) that no point in spending any money to go to London if you leave without seeing X Y Z plus B R J and F. Depends on what you all decide upon for your vacation.
Jul 26th, 2017, 03:56 AM
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Living in a city and visiting for a few days are completely different in my view. I consider myself a Londoner and I live in zone 4 (30 mins on the train to central London). I also live in a lovely area and can visit museums in Greenwich easily etc. I also have the luxury of seeing 1 site a month if I want to and my hour commute in and out everyday doesn't impact my sightseeing time at all. Would I recommend staying at the Holiday Inn on my high street - nope. The time wasted in transit would be too high for me and the horrendous overcrowding I deal with daily I wouldn't wish on anyone.
If you want to stay a bit further out to save money on accommodation be sure you check the cost of the commute here:
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/
And you can use their journey planner to look see what the commute will be. Note that Belvedere is not on the tube line, so you would need to connect using the National Rail trains. You can find their timetables here:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/
I love the City Mapper App for my iphone as well - it will give you the fastest route using both of the above systems.
If you want to stay a bit further out to save money on accommodation be sure you check the cost of the commute here:
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/
And you can use their journey planner to look see what the commute will be. Note that Belvedere is not on the tube line, so you would need to connect using the National Rail trains. You can find their timetables here:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/
I love the City Mapper App for my iphone as well - it will give you the fastest route using both of the above systems.
