PixieGal

OMGosh, you people are absolutely amazing, and so helpful! Such great advice in such short time. I've had 19 responses in 24 hours! I've only read through about 6 at this point but wanted to comment quickly before I forget things.

First, we are very flexible, and actually would prefer the smaller, outer "suburbs" or nearby towns to staying right in Paris or Amsterdam. Traveling to and fro is, IMO, part of the joy & wonder. I just am not savvy on the transportation availability.

We'll definitely pick up some guide books (Google Netherlands Guide Book?) and start studying. Reference meals, my preference (as a "thrifty" person) is to buy food/meals and picnic or cook in our lodging. Someone above mentioned no AirBnB in... Paris? Not sure which city it was but... Is that some kind of city/country law/policy?

Thank you, thank you, thank you for all of the responses so far! These are going to make things so much easier and, hopefully, will avoid many more problems.

Pam

PixieGal

OMGosh, you people are absolutely amazing, and so helpful! Such great advice in such short time. I've had 19 responses in 24 hours! I've only read through about 6 at this point but wanted to comment quickly before I forget things.

First, we are very flexible, and actually would prefer the smaller, outer "suburbs" or nearby towns to staying right in Paris or Amsterdam. Traveling to and fro is, IMO, part of the joy & wonder. I just am not savvy on the transportation availability.

We'll definitely pick up some guide books (Google Netherlands Guide Book?) and start studying. Reference meals, my preference (as a "thrifty" person) is to buy food/meals and picnic or cook in our lodging. Someone above mentioned no AirBnB in... Paris? Not sure which city it was but... Is that some kind of city/country law/policy?

Thank you, thank you, thank you for all of the responses so far! These are going to make things so much easier and, hopefully, will avoid many more problems.

Pam

PixieGal

Whoops, sorry for the duplicate post above... I'm not very familiar with this site yet. Couldn't find a way to delete one. I also can't find a way to "subscribe" to my post in order to get email updates when there is a response. Not sure if that's an option on this forum or not.

Anyway, to Dayle. Unfortunately yes, it has to be summer. My daughter is in college, so the trip has to be between the very end of May and mid-August. Is there a better time within that range?

kja

For good information on transportation options WITHIN cities, you might consult the Lonely Planet and / or Rough Guides -- they usually provide very good coverage of that kind of thing. And google.maps is surprisingly informative....

IMDonehere

We have been traveling independently for over 45 years with the basic premise, we would rather see a few places well, than many poorly.

And please remember you lose x of time on every travel day. There is packing, unpacking, checking in and out, getting to and from the transportation, waiting time, and actual travel time.

StCirq

<<Someone above mentioned no AirBnB in... Paris? Not sure which city it was but... Is that some kind of city/country law/policy?>>

Read the links Pal provided above.

Staying in the "suburbs" may hold appeal for a variety of reasons, but if you are indeed a thrifty person, staying in the suburbs of Paris could eat into your budget and waste time you could be spending seeing and enjoying the everyday delights of that city. For Amsterdam, which IMO isn't anywhere near as magical downtown, staying in Haarlem might be a good idea. You can get into A'Dam in about 15 minutes and I believe there's a train about every 15 minutes.

I would go as early in the summer as you can manage.

PixieGal

Janis, yes I'd still love to fit Scotland in, and the countryside there and in the Netherlands is actually more appealing to me than bigger cities.

Fourfortravel, my idea of cultural experience is seeing and learning about the real areas and people, not the hugely advertised things. Also, we are simple shorts & sandals folks, not so much the opera crowd.

Kathie, thanks for the tip on the credit cards!

BigRuss, yes "on a budget" can mean anything, haha. I'm not sure how to answer that, as I don't really know what the trip is going to cost yet. I am very cheap, and always looking for the least expensive way to do things, but this trip is a first, and maybe once in a lifetime, so I won't be my normal penny-pinching self.. completely.

Massimop, we don't mind living out of suitcases, aside from having to drag them everywhere, so changing lodgings won't be a problem. And Utrecht and Munich are great ideas, thanks!

Annhig & Thursdaysd, thanks for the university lodging suggestions; definitely look into that. Finding out about the Paris problem with AirBnB has me worried now about affordable lodging there. I'll definitely be looking outside the city.

Cathinjoetown, no idea what hotel rates are in Paris, but here in the States, depending on location, I rarely pay more than $50-60/night. They're not the nice places, but... cheap, lol.

massimop

Pixiegal,

Yes, there is a strong policy against all short-term apartment rentals in Paris, not only AirBnB. so you need to be very careful and get a LOT of advice if you try to rent an apartment in Paris. There are now some legal apartment rentals registered with the city, but it is a work-in-progress, and in the meantime many illegal apartments are being offered on the market to unsuspecting customers. That can create a lot of problems for you if you unknowingly book one and the law clamps down and makes the apartment unavailable, and you end up with no place to stay.

People here can help you sort through some of the options for a legal rental or an affordable safe suburb.

thursdaysd

Afraid $50/night in big European cities is likely to mean hostels. However, many of them now have twin rooms, so you wouldn't have to sleep in a dorm, and most come with kitchens.

I use booking.com for hotels, which often includes hostels, but you should also check eurocheapo.com and hostelworld.com

janisj

>>but here in the States, depending on location, I rarely pay more than $50-60/night.<<

Unless you always stay in youth hostels -- I am very curious where you find $50 lodging in places like San Francisco, or Manhattan, or Chicago, or San Diego. Maybe in non scenic towns out-of-season but not where anyone would actually want to vacation.

You will need to raise your budget unless you want to stay in hostels every single night. $50 a night = £35/€40

>>I'll definitely be looking outside the city. <<

Be careful staying out in the 'burbs' in places like Paris and especially in London. What you lose in time and money commuting in and out every day will make the savings a false economy.

Sassafrass

Is your son AF or Army? Will he have leave to travel some with you or will you visit him at his base? Will you fly RT to someplace near him to see him at the beginning and end of the trip, or do a multi-destination flight, into one city and out of another?

Any place he is stationed will be near interesting places with great local restaurants, guest houses, etc. so you might want a few days to explore Germany for local culture. Definitely begin searching what Germany has to offer and as soon as you know his base, people can give advice. From near Ramstein (if he is AF), you can get trains and/or cheap flights to other places in Europe.

There are some places that are good hubs for travel, but "Europe" is too big to be a hub. Other guides, Fodor's and Eyewitness for example, are better in some respects, but you might get a lot of good basic info from some Rick Steves' books.

"Traveling to and fro is, IMO, part of the joy and wonder." Perhaps you have had better experiences, but not me. Only the first time or so in a crowded subway or bus is interesting. After that, no fun at all, certainly no joy or wonder!

I live on the East Coast of the US. Most of my travel in recent years has been NYC, DC, Hampton Roads, Baltimore and SE Florida, all places of major interest to tourists. Even cheaper hotels in these major cities has been over $100.00 for a long time. Beach areas are cheap off season, but the cities you are planning to visit are major world class cities, busy all year. Expect lodging to be proportionate to that. Also, there are three of you, so cost will be higher. Although there are many more than there used to be, rooms with two beds or a family room are a tad more limited. People here can help you find them.

In some cases, staying outside the city you wish to visit works. In others it does not. People here are giving you some very, very good advice about that! Just think about this. If you spend 45 minutes each way commuting back and forth into a city, in five days, you have wasted nearly eight hours plus cost of travel. That is nearly a day. Might as well have cut the trip short by a day and used the money spent on the hotel one night and the travel cost back and forth, to up the cost of a hotel in a good location.

Paris: One place I would consider staying outside of central Paris is the town of Versailles. It has a fabulous market!!! It has a pretty town center and restaurants. You can stroll the grounds of Versailles for free for those views and vistas. Train is easy into Paris proper, and because you are staying in an interesting place, no time lost.

If your budget is really tight because it just is, then you have to work with that. If it is because you are frugal, then you might want to rethink it a little bit.

I used to be that way. We stayed in horrible places when something different would have contributed a lot to our vacation. Two days in a place with a great view "may sometimes" beat three days in a hovel.

Because entrance fees seemed high, we bypassed museums, concerts and palaces I really wanted to see. Frankly, that was plain stupid! I never got back to some of those places. A person pays hundreds if not thousands for the trip, then tries to save money on what they go there to see? Another way I wasted money and time was shopping for better prices on things I wanted to buy. Spend valuable sightseeing time shopping to save a dollar or two? No!

Of course I want it to be good, but food is not terribly important to me. However, where I sit to eat is. I want music and beautiful squares, etc.

So, this is all relative to your personal enjoyment - and those traveling with you! You have lots of time to plan. You might want to get a big, big map and pin things to it. Have fun doing it.

massimop

I think some of advice about being outside the cities is being misinterpreted by others. And it was not meant as blanket advice for every city.

The travelers want "vistas and views". They don't have a lot of money. While it makes sense to stay in an expensive urban core for some days, it also makes sense to rather quickly get out of that expensive urban core to the vistas and views after some concentrated sightseeing is done. The travelers are not adverse to switching hotels often. It doesn't make sense to stay in central Paris for 7 days and do "day trips" to vistas and views.

Also, in a country with excellent transportation options (like the Netherlands) there really is a case to be made for picking a beautiful small town near the capital rather than the capital itself, especially if museum-going is not a priority.

Devil is in the details. A lot of the standard formulaic advice is not gong to be relevant to this trip.

dwdvagamundo

Lots of good advice. My biggest piece of advice is to plan your trip by nites, not days. That way you'll be sure to have a place to stay every nite, and will easily be able to see that two nites means only one full day in place.

One way to save on both money and time is to spend fewer nites in large cties and more in the real heart of Europe--smaller cities and the country. This is particularly true as you say your priority is vistas and views. When I think of vistas and views, I think of Scotland so don't cut that out. And I also think of western Austria just south of Munich: we spent a nite outside of Innsbruck while driving to Venice, and would gladly go back just for the view of the Alps from our room. Innsbruck is a short drive from Munich.

Rather than basing in the outskirts of cities, I'd just cut the nites. Kja suggested seven nites in London and five in Paris. For me, for a first trip, that's three nites too many in London and two too many in Paris if you take the Eurostar London to Paris. So there are five extra nites that you can devote to Scotland.

Also, use open-jaw tickets: Fly into London, fly out of Munich.

Have a great trip!

PalenQ

If never been to Amsterdam I'd stay there and day trip to regional towns not vice versa - Amsterdam glows after dark - especially along the many canals.

Regional towns can be very quiet at night -if that is what you want may be better than staying in the mega tourist towns. But most want to see like in Amsterdam the main sights which would take leisurely about three days - day tripping in would waste time.

thursdaysd

Haarlem is a 15-18 minute train ride outside Amsterdam. Doesn't seem too onerous. On the other hand, Paris and London are big enough that staying on the outskirts makes much less sense. I could sleep in Richmond for free when I visit London, but I pay to stay in the center instead. (Admittedly in LSE dorms or an inexpensive B&B, but not free.)

PixieGal

My daughter is following along with these posts, and since she is really the spearhead on this, she's now come up with this itinerary...

"So it's looking like fly into London (4days), go to Scotland(4days), Paris (3days), Netherlands (7days different places), Poland (3 days) Vienna (5days), and then fly out of Munich (3 days)?"

I'm thinking that is too much now and told her I didn't think we could squeeze Vienna in there. Plus, I'd like to have a little more time in Germany; Innsbruck sounds wonderful. My son is an officer in the Army, and he doesn't even know if he'll be able to get away, but we're hoping.

Sassafrass, thanks for the wake-up... The frugal budget is part necessity and part my cheap nature. I will definitely expand my perspective here. You do have me very worried about lodging... 30 nights at $100 a night is over $3k. Eek! Versailles sounds great. As for travel... I love driving, and stopping whenever and wherever I please to look at things. I guess the trains will be a different story, huh?

Thursdaysd, Haarlem sounds great, but PalenQ makes a great point about Amsterdam at night. I looked up the LSW. site for London, and the rates seem very high, $115+ Euro and can't find anything for 3 people.

Traveler_Nick

Germany will be cheaper then Paris or London. $100 is more then €80. If you aren't traveling during an event that should be plenty in Germany. Tougher in London and Paris.

kja

IMO, yes, definitely TOO much. Please start thinking in terms of NIGHTS, not DAYS, so you can see how much time you actually have on the ground to see and experience the places that are making it to your wish list.

And oh my, no, do NOT try to use a rental car to make this trip! If you change countries, you will pay a fortune in drop off fees (someone will have to be paid to drive the car back to it's destination). Trains in Europe, and most buses, too, are comfortable and convenient. Car trips in Europe can be great for visiting a small area; using cars for a major trip across multiple countries is an entirely different matter. If absolutely necessary, you might consider a car for a few days here or there -- but as rule, expect doing so to add substantially to your costs.

Please check rome2rio.com for some basic sense of your transportation options to get from place-to-place. You can't count on the information you learn there, as it is not sensitive to seasonal variation, but it will give you an idea. For example, 3 days for Poland would mean the better part of 1 day to get there, the better part of 1 day to get back, and just over 1 day for an entire country. Not my idea of a good use of time.

janisj

Traveler_Nick: >>Germany will be cheaper then Paris or London. $100 is more then €80. If you aren't traveling during an event that should be plenty in Germany. Tougher in London and Paris.<<

Even in Germany €80 is pretty low for a triple room.

PixieGal : >>I looked up the LSW. site for London, and the rates seem very high, $115+ Euro and can't find anything for 3 people.<<

Assuming you mean LSE - They don't use € in London - they use £ Yes they do have triple rooms. If you mean $115 (US $) - that is a little under £90 and that is very cheap for a triple. Their bookings for next summer aren't open yet so not sure what you found.

PixieGal

Kja, I wasn't planning on renting a car, but I'm starting to think we may have to for some day trips. I hope not, but I am not deep enough into this yet to know for sure. Is it true the train schedules only come out 4 months in advance?

Quick question.. Are we "dumb Americans" going to have an issue since we don't speak any other languages besides Spanish?

I'm thinking the itinerary will be more like London, Paris, Amsterdam/Netherlands, Scottland, and Germany.