If I wanted an ice machine in my European hotel room, I'd just bring along a woman I once dated. :^) <BR> <BR>Seriously, things like ice or vending machines, televisions, and swimming pools have never been prerequistes for any hotels I've stayed at in Europe. <BR> <BR>I've stayed many times at hotels with (what I'd consider to be) nice lobbies and pleasant service. Small rooms? Sure, I've had them but they usually have character and often the hotels are in wonderful, central locations so a small room is a fair trade-off. <BR> <BR>What is "substandard", I think, is often in the eye of the beholder.

I'm planning my first trip to Europe and hearing and seeing how not great hotels are in Italy. I don't need a posh suite, but I think it also depends on the season. I'm going in December, so I can't lie around on the beach, so if the weather sucks or everything is closed, I want to be comfortable in my hotel room.

gee capo amybe the ice cold date you brought to europe was that way because of your attitude- 2 sides to every story

But have you ever had a hotel in America that had a view of the Eiffle Tower (or the Colloseum, Acropolis, or "fill in the blank")?

<BR> <BR>Well, my economics teachers drove into my thick skull that market drives price. The 'market' necessarily has to consist of a huge population of buyers, not just one or two people. So, what I consider a fair price has to take into account general market conditions, and not just my personal feelings. What's 'good value' for London would be overpriced in Paris, and so forth. And of course, both of these cities have very different market conditions from, I dunno, Teaneck, New Jersey. : - ) <BR> <BR>I take your point about poor soundproofing, although I'm the kind of person who would wake up to a mosquito walking on the roof. However, bear in mind that retrofitting old buildings would be very expensive, and might even damage the building's character. The buildings that house hotels often were not designed to be hotels, and thus are very difficult and expensive to renovate and maintain. I shudder to think how expensive it is to run a hotel in Venice, where every nut and bolt must be brought in by boat. <BR> <BR>If the hotel is catering to the tourist market, it may not bother with things that are more important to the business community. As a tourist, the last thing I need after walking all day is more exercise equipment. : - ) I certainly don't want to pay more for it! <BR> <BR>Some of your comments are a bit contradictory. If you are already bothered by loud TVs, the last thing you want is for these to be increased in size. Anything that discourages people from using them is fine by me! <BR> <BR>Yes, the rooms are smaller, but we're dealing with an area with much higher population densities, and hence much higher demand relative to the supply of space. I've never been to Japan, but my guess is that those rooms would be really small. <BR> <BR>I've stayed in all kinds of European hotels. I do agree that sometimes the Accor chain hotels (Novotel, Mercure, Ibis, etc.), while cookie-cutter, are nice for a change, given the level of comfort to price. And if you have kids, I think you'll find that these hotels often have the things that you're looking for in the way of pools, etc. <BR> <BR>My old teachers would summarize the whole issue by saying the market sets the standard, so if a hotel were truly substandard for the market it serves, it would go out of business.

The ice machine really cracked me up. Don't you know that most Europeans don't fill their drinks with ice cubes to the brim? That's so typically American! <BR>In a way, your complaint is like Italians/French comnplaining about not having a bidet in their US hotel rooms and bemoaning the lack of the most basic bathroom fixture.

If Europeans could figure out a way to have bidets dispense ice, and Americans could figure out a way for ice machines to double as personal hygiene devices, then maybe everyone would be happy. :^)

I would agree that most of your observations about European hotels are generally true of hotels located in older buildings in the central city. However, as others have said, if you want American-style hotel amenities, they are readily available in chain hotels in any large European city. On my first few trips to Paris, I opted for the small, "charming" Parisian hotel. After getting enough of the tiny rooms, paper-thin walls, and lack of American-style showers, I retreated to the Hilton where I've happily stayed on subsequent trips. Its just a matter of personal preference.

Frankly I disagree with Ugly and I have news for you : lately I have found that many hotels in the US are not properly cleaned, even one 5 stars in which we stayed. This has been a terribly set back for me.

Capo, you are a scream. Build a better mousetrap...er, bidet...and the world will beat a path to your door. <BR> <BR>Kate, if you can find a hotel in New Orleans that doesn't have roaches, let us know. <BR> <BR>Standards, like value, vary from person to person. The average European hotel room is not like the average American hotel room, and for that I am very thankful. Whatever happened to that Favorite European BAthroom thread???? <BR>

This is exactly why I love Ireland so much-ok, just one of the reasons.... <BR>We have always stayed at B&B's in Ireland and none has ever been sub-standard. Granted, some are fancier than others but not-substandard-and that is after 6 trips there! <BR>This summer we traveled to Ireland with 8 friends so I was really picky on the B&B's. For $25 a night (each) we got beautiful, large homes with nice sized rooms and private bath's. We looked out at the ocean or beautiful fields or a stream and one night a castle! We woke to lovely full breakfasts starting with cereal and fresh breads and then eggs, bacon, etc. the whole nine yards. <BR>We came and went as we pleased and the rooms were spotless!! All for $25 each! <BR>We paid double that in London with no breakfast and not quite double in Paris. But, I really have no complaints there either-London is just more expensive. Our hotel in Paris had lots of charm and we were all very comfortable there as well. I just find Ireland to be such a bargain. <BR>Shadow

I found that European hotels that pop up on each website AND HAVE INFO IN ENGLISH are frequently not as nice as some of the less "publicized" inns/pensiones/etc. <BR>And Capo, you're right!What other combinations could you think off? The bidet with the ice would be great, particularly considering that many posters said that they cooled off their drinks and hot feet in the bidets.

Ingrid, how about a combination waterbed/swimming pool? It would be good for keeping up with your breaststroke while on vacation. :~)

Usually I don't respond to this type of post but this time i just have to let fly. Don't you get it Ugly American? You haven't "travelled" to Europe eight times -- you've imposed yourself on Europe eight times. <BR> <BR>If you can't stand European hotel standards and don't view them as part of the experience why don't you just stay home. Or better yet -- travel to Las Vegas. Last time I checked you could see the Eiffel Tower, the Grand Canal, the Italian Lake District and a Castle or two. Plus!! you can get ice in your drinks, while watching a big screen TV, inside your climate controlled room!!!!!! <BR> <BR>NOW THAT'S TRAVELLING! <BR> <BR>And you wonder why the rest of the world calls you and Ugly American?

No, Capo, the idea of a waterbed/pool combination isn't quite reight. Remember, it has to be something to make both Europeans AND Americans happy. What I hate about American hotel beds is fighting with the tucked-in top sheet and the blanket; either everything is sliding around an dyou lose the sheet and the yucky blanket covers your face or you're trapped under your sheet. So, can you come up with a combination of duvet covers and say, the iron that Ugly misses? Maybe wrap teh iron in a duvet cover and throw it through the paper-thin walls if the neighbors are making love too loud.

How can something be "generally substandard"? That's an oxymoron, no?

I agree that usually you get more for your money with hotel and motel rooms in the states. I must say that my friends in several European countries agree. Many of them have told me that they are amazed at the amenities and the size of the rooms in the states. However, I don't think it is a "big deal" to most Americans traveling in Europe.

I'm not sure I agree with this. While overall, American hotel rooms are larger, many of them are alongside highways where space isn't a problem. On the way back from Austria this summer, we stopped overnight at a new autobahn hotel near Ulm, Germany, with rooms that easily met U.S. standards--except for the ice machine. But I don't put ice in German beer, so it wasn't a problem. <BR>What's more, price/value for hotels in European capitals like Paris are better than for hotels in a big U.S. city like NY. I know of numerous small, centrally located hotels in Paris that offer comfortable, clean rooms with cable TV, private baths, in-room safes, etc., plus helpful, well-informed staff, for about $75 a night. What kind of hotel room and staff do you get in NYC or SF for $75 a night? <BR>About three weeks ago, I spent several days in Franconia, staying in a village hotel about 30 minutes from Nuremberg. I had a large, very modern, private room and bath, in a beautifully restored 18th century building with excellent service plus a full breakfast. The room had data ports for computers and international cable television. It cost $28 a night. <BR>As for $400 a night getting you nothing, what absurd rubbish. In the U.S., we stayed at the NY Marriott East Side for $149, and got quite a bit. In May, we were at the Hotel Meurice in Paris and $400 a night got you a large, beautiful room overlooking the Tuileries. The room had twice daily maid service, a huge marble bath with separate tub and shower, big closets, a full size TV equipped with Web TV for web surfing and email, outstanding food in the hotel restaurant, all the service you could hope for, and more. True, there was no iron in the room. But when I pay $400 a night for a room in Paris, I don't plan to hang around ironing my own clothes. <BR>BTilke (Brussels) <BR>

<BR>Hi again <BR> <BR>I forgot to make the point also in my last post that many centrally-located hotels in European cities are likely to be early nineteenth and pre-nineteenth century buildings, erected at a time when people made do with a lot less space than they do now. Many of the buildings probably won't even have started out life as hotels in the first place. <BR> <BR>Many US cities, meanwhile, are a lot younger, and their central hotel industries will have developed in the shadow of the industrial revolution and its aftermath catering to a burgeoning new class of business people and travellers, all more demanding than their predecessors in terms of the amenities they expect. While space has always been at a premum in Europe's major cities - and indeed has been since the Middle Ages - there hasn't been as much of a restriction in the US. More modern European hotels, built as the hotel chain industry developed, are likely to have bigger rooms, but probably still not as big as their American counterparts. <BR> <BR>It's of course difficult to generalise, but I quite like this theory. Perhaps the American desire for big rooms has something to do with all the space that you guys have always been used to and taken for granted as your right ever since you looked westwards across the prairies. So according to this argument smaller rooms in Europe aren't proof of lower standards, simply a long-standing cultural difference. We've never been used to having a great deal of room here, so we don't demand it as a key part of the deal from our hotels. <BR> <BR>Just an observation. <BR> <BR>Kate - London

I have to agree with Ugly American...when you compare European and American hotels in the same price range, you come up short in Europe. Labor Day weekend I stayed in an Embassy Suites in Atlanta (actually Dunwoody by the Perimeter Mall) for $99/night. It had all the usual Embassy Suites bells and whistles (pool, gym, Manager's reception with free booze). To get this in Europe (or even something close to it) would cost me at least $250/night. <BR> <BR>The amenities that are considered "standard" in the US are luxuries in Europe. Think about it, even our low end hotel chains (ie, Motel6, Days Inn, Drive Inn, Come on Inns) have ice machines, pools, and gyms. But we just learn to "deal with it" while we're in Europe.