European hotels generally substandard.
Oct 22nd, 2001, 06:54 AM
#1
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European hotels generally substandard.
I know that readers of the Fodors message board generally do not like broad stereotypes, but I have a major one that I am convinced is true---- That hotels in Europe are poor value for the money and are generally poor overall.
I love traveling in Europe, but I hate European hotels. My wife and I have traveled to Europe 8 times and have seen most countries in western Europe. Almost without exception we find the quality of the hotels in all European countries to be poor.
I miss the following in European hotels:
(generally found in most Asian and American hotels):
Soundproofing (I can't tell you the number of times I have been kept up by door slamming and loud TVs from nearby rooms)
Lack of vending and ice machines
Poor quality televisions (16 inch is the standard)
Hard single beds with poor quality sheets and blankets
Lack of excercise rooms, swimming pools, nice lobbies and common areas.
Unpleasant cold service at the check in areas
Small rooms with lack of things like irons, computer hookups, etc.
I have stayed at places in Europe that cost up to $400.00 a night and always feel ripped off. What would be a four star hotel in Rome, would not even pass for a Days Inn in America. Does anyone agree?
I love traveling in Europe, but I hate European hotels. My wife and I have traveled to Europe 8 times and have seen most countries in western Europe. Almost without exception we find the quality of the hotels in all European countries to be poor.
I miss the following in European hotels:
(generally found in most Asian and American hotels):
Soundproofing (I can't tell you the number of times I have been kept up by door slamming and loud TVs from nearby rooms)
Lack of vending and ice machines
Poor quality televisions (16 inch is the standard)
Hard single beds with poor quality sheets and blankets
Lack of excercise rooms, swimming pools, nice lobbies and common areas.
Unpleasant cold service at the check in areas
Small rooms with lack of things like irons, computer hookups, etc.
I have stayed at places in Europe that cost up to $400.00 a night and always feel ripped off. What would be a four star hotel in Rome, would not even pass for a Days Inn in America. Does anyone agree?
Oct 22nd, 2001, 07:11 AM
#3
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i personally don't agree but than again it all depends upon what you're looking for in an hotel. In europe, as well as just about anywhere else, clean, quiet, and convenient are my main criteria. But in europe i also consider charm and character of the local surroundings. In these areas I think europe hotels are far superior. In the states I love a nice marriott and their huge buffet breakfasts, swimming pools, etc. In europe, most of the time in the hotel is spent sleeping and resting. The rest of the time we're out. Also, most europe hotels are in buildings that are very old and not originally designed to be hotels. Many didn't even have plumbing and electricity when they were first built. I think there are 'american' style hotel in most major europe cities, but they tend to be a little out of the way (just to find the land to build them on). I suppose it's all a matter of taste and priorities. Recent trips to Europe we've stayed in primarily 3* & 4* (and 1 2*) hotels in major cities. we have yet to be dissappointed.
Oct 22nd, 2001, 07:17 AM
#4
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I stayed at a Novotel in Paris that had everything you mentioned.
Three stars also.
I thought is was much better than any Days Inn I've stayed at in the US.
We had one of the best bathrooms I have ever seen.
Also, I have stayed in some 4 stars in Naples, that again had everything you mentioned. As for the American chains, we also stayed in a Holiday Inn in London, that had everything you are looking for.
I guess it just depends on the big selection you generally have and taking a chance.
When I am doing research for a city I am going to, this board has been a big help. Also, you can find hotels offering the things you are looking for by doing searches. Many sites offer you the possiblity to pick and choose what you want in a room.
Three stars also.
I thought is was much better than any Days Inn I've stayed at in the US.
We had one of the best bathrooms I have ever seen.
Also, I have stayed in some 4 stars in Naples, that again had everything you mentioned. As for the American chains, we also stayed in a Holiday Inn in London, that had everything you are looking for.
I guess it just depends on the big selection you generally have and taking a chance.
When I am doing research for a city I am going to, this board has been a big help. Also, you can find hotels offering the things you are looking for by doing searches. Many sites offer you the possiblity to pick and choose what you want in a room.
Oct 22nd, 2001, 07:19 AM
#5
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In Europe, we usually go for "old and charming". We never expect American hotel ammenities, but are sometimes pleasantly surprised by just how modern the rooms are, despite being housed in very old buildings. As noted above, you CAN find American-style hotels, but you miss part of what makes Europe such a great place to visit.
The choice of "charming vs. modern" sometimes gets played out in America too. When we spent a week in Glacier National Park in Montana, we stayed at an historic old lodge hotel, rather than a less expensive motel with much "better" facilities.
The choice of "charming vs. modern" sometimes gets played out in America too. When we spent a week in Glacier National Park in Montana, we stayed at an historic old lodge hotel, rather than a less expensive motel with much "better" facilities.
Oct 22nd, 2001, 07:36 AM
#6
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Hi
I hope this topic stays a civilized discussion, but I'm not optimistic.
Here are my 2 cents:
"Substandard" meaning below
whose or which standards? If you mean below the standards that you prefer, then take the first resoponder's advice and look for American-style or business-oriented hotels, usually chains like Westin, Intercontinental, Concorde, etc.
They are more likely to have the amenities you prefer, although it is best to inquire in advance rather than assume.
The star-ratings are based on government standards and the star rating system includes things like the size of the lobby, the number of private bathrooms,
etc. Personal recommendations on hotels are best, because a two-star or a three-star at the top of its category could be a much better value, in more than price, than a four-star at the bottom of its category.
Many European hotels are not new construction because many cities have restrictions about erecting or renovating buildings in the city centers--that is to maintain some of the charm we go looking for. So in the absence of gut-renovations, some hotels, even chain members, are modified older buildings that are not necessarily going to have large elevators, or gyms, or computer jacks,or even huge hot water heaters. T
However, Americans are not the only travelers, and my impression is that
not all European or Asian travelers
will expect or require a large-screen tv or a gym.
I can't speak for irons, I was able to borrow one once in a European hotel, but it wasn't in the room to start with.
I don't know if this is an issue or not, but there may be some fire-safety concerns. As you know, many European hotel bathrooms do not allow for any appliances to be plugged in except for electric shavers.
We each like what we like. I think you should go looking for the amenities you want, and for a price, you will find them. It's like trying to rent an automatic transmission car in Europe.
It can be done, but it's not the norm based on the local culture, and you will pay more for it if you can find it.
I hope this topic stays a civilized discussion, but I'm not optimistic.
Here are my 2 cents:
"Substandard" meaning below
whose or which standards? If you mean below the standards that you prefer, then take the first resoponder's advice and look for American-style or business-oriented hotels, usually chains like Westin, Intercontinental, Concorde, etc.
They are more likely to have the amenities you prefer, although it is best to inquire in advance rather than assume.
The star-ratings are based on government standards and the star rating system includes things like the size of the lobby, the number of private bathrooms,
etc. Personal recommendations on hotels are best, because a two-star or a three-star at the top of its category could be a much better value, in more than price, than a four-star at the bottom of its category.
Many European hotels are not new construction because many cities have restrictions about erecting or renovating buildings in the city centers--that is to maintain some of the charm we go looking for. So in the absence of gut-renovations, some hotels, even chain members, are modified older buildings that are not necessarily going to have large elevators, or gyms, or computer jacks,or even huge hot water heaters. T
However, Americans are not the only travelers, and my impression is that
not all European or Asian travelers
will expect or require a large-screen tv or a gym.
I can't speak for irons, I was able to borrow one once in a European hotel, but it wasn't in the room to start with.
I don't know if this is an issue or not, but there may be some fire-safety concerns. As you know, many European hotel bathrooms do not allow for any appliances to be plugged in except for electric shavers.
We each like what we like. I think you should go looking for the amenities you want, and for a price, you will find them. It's like trying to rent an automatic transmission car in Europe.
It can be done, but it's not the norm based on the local culture, and you will pay more for it if you can find it.
Oct 22nd, 2001, 08:09 AM
#7
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Well, UglyA, you've done a service for first tme European travlers by highlighting cultural differences in hotel customer expectations. I, too, was taken aback by hotels my first time to Europe. I expected (and the definition of quality has something to do with customer expectations, right?) American type lodging, but found something different. In retrospect, all but one of the hotels were clean and adequate to tend to basic needs (rest, hygiene) but not of the same mold as American chains.
Chances are my expectations will change before the culture of several countries. Humor helps - my favorite is a European relative who expressed wonder at "why Americans would spend all that money for a hotel with a bowling alley (pool, etc.)..if you want to bowl, do it at home. Travel is for seeing and doing things that are not available to you at home."
Chances are my expectations will change before the culture of several countries. Humor helps - my favorite is a European relative who expressed wonder at "why Americans would spend all that money for a hotel with a bowling alley (pool, etc.)..if you want to bowl, do it at home. Travel is for seeing and doing things that are not available to you at home."
Oct 22nd, 2001, 08:24 AM
#8
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"my favorite is a European relative who expressed wonder at "why Americans would spend all that money for a hotel with a bowling alley (pool, etc.)..if you want to bowl, do it at home. Travel is for seeing and doing things that are not available to you at home"
Quite so. There was a posting here recently from someone moaning that they had to pay extra if they wanted more than the terrestrial TV stations in London. They'd crossed the Atlantic, were staying in one of the great cultural centres of the world, awash with theatres, museums, pubs, clubs etc. and they wanted to stay in their room watching TV?!
Quite so. There was a posting here recently from someone moaning that they had to pay extra if they wanted more than the terrestrial TV stations in London. They'd crossed the Atlantic, were staying in one of the great cultural centres of the world, awash with theatres, museums, pubs, clubs etc. and they wanted to stay in their room watching TV?!
Oct 22nd, 2001, 08:29 AM
#9
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What an insulting statement!!
When that is said, I must agree that I felt the US hotel and even motel standard very comfortable and very high. With zero personality, though.
Big and vasting cars might be a metaphore. Who needs them, really?
Some decades ago Europeans might have envied the luxury American way, but that's long ago. Primary needs goes with modesty. Main sights most often show extreme recent luxury, and that is interesting. But tending to maintain and to live in that luxory is not the most tempting thing.
So, shame on you Americans that can not stand a medium sized and comfortable European hotel room. Eouropeans also are used to pay at least an Euro per litre of gaz.
Bjorn, Oslo
When that is said, I must agree that I felt the US hotel and even motel standard very comfortable and very high. With zero personality, though.
Big and vasting cars might be a metaphore. Who needs them, really?
Some decades ago Europeans might have envied the luxury American way, but that's long ago. Primary needs goes with modesty. Main sights most often show extreme recent luxury, and that is interesting. But tending to maintain and to live in that luxory is not the most tempting thing.
So, shame on you Americans that can not stand a medium sized and comfortable European hotel room. Eouropeans also are used to pay at least an Euro per litre of gaz.
Bjorn, Oslo
Oct 22nd, 2001, 08:40 AM
#10
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I go for old and charming as well in Paris and Dublin, but London is harder and we prefer a modern hotel or some kind of apartment there. On our first trip there in 1991, our hotel (recommended in a well known travel guide) was absolutely disgusting. We couldn't believe we were paying $85 for a broken window, flies buzzing around the room, clouds of cigarette smoke, and nothing between us and the mattress except a thin sheet. Luckily, they moved us to another of their hotels that was a bit more acceptable. I don't need a pool, big lobby, tv, or ice machine, but I do need cleanliness!
Oct 22nd, 2001, 09:07 AM
#12
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Bjorn, don't you think you are being too judgemental? So what if someone wants an ice machine! I remember staying in a few hotels last year in America and it seemed that whenever they gave me something substandard (wine/cheese basket with processed crap, stale croissants) they called it "European-style"--and you know what? They were right!
Oct 22nd, 2001, 09:52 AM
#13
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Can't we just say that the standards are different? I must say, one of the things that I miss when I travel is a nice, thick, American overly-absorbent towel. But what I get in return is more valuable to me than the predictable conveniences at the cookie-cutter hotels found throughout the U.S. And keep in mind, some of your noted differences are cultural - most Europeans only have single beds, so why should hotels be any different?
There's nowhere in the U.S. that I've been able to lean out of my hotel window to people-watch the crowds walking by the Arno, or eat breakfast on a flower-filled rooftop terrace. It's only in Italy that I've stayed in a former monastery, in the midst of acres of olive trees and vineyards. I really miss those cozy "comforters" in Germany and Austria, and dream with longing of freshly-made croissants and coffee eaten at an outdoor cafe in Paris. Which I reached with a 1-minute walk from my small hotel room that had a luxurious bathroom.
If I think I might be hungry at night, I can stop at a bakery for bread, or buy some fine French/Swiss/whatever chocolate. Though I usually have food left over from some market we passed where I couldn't resist buying some fresh figs, or a local variety of melon that we don't have in the States. I can even have wine in my room, if I so desire.
I get lots of exercise walking around the beautiful cities and towns, and am much too tired to watch the TV by the end of the evening after a leisurely meal at some lovely outdoor cafe.
My goal during a nice trip in the U.S. is to recreate my experience at those charming hotels that I've stayed at in Europe.
There's nowhere in the U.S. that I've been able to lean out of my hotel window to people-watch the crowds walking by the Arno, or eat breakfast on a flower-filled rooftop terrace. It's only in Italy that I've stayed in a former monastery, in the midst of acres of olive trees and vineyards. I really miss those cozy "comforters" in Germany and Austria, and dream with longing of freshly-made croissants and coffee eaten at an outdoor cafe in Paris. Which I reached with a 1-minute walk from my small hotel room that had a luxurious bathroom.
If I think I might be hungry at night, I can stop at a bakery for bread, or buy some fine French/Swiss/whatever chocolate. Though I usually have food left over from some market we passed where I couldn't resist buying some fresh figs, or a local variety of melon that we don't have in the States. I can even have wine in my room, if I so desire.
I get lots of exercise walking around the beautiful cities and towns, and am much too tired to watch the TV by the end of the evening after a leisurely meal at some lovely outdoor cafe.
My goal during a nice trip in the U.S. is to recreate my experience at those charming hotels that I've stayed at in Europe.
Oct 22nd, 2001, 10:16 AM
#14
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I will probably be criticised by the Fodor's Pharisees for making a statement, but, I will anyway. I don't think European hotel standards are paltry compared to America. I just think they are different. In Europe, most would not go to a hotel to watch TV or go to the gym. A hotel is a place to sleep. Also, you get what you pay for. Most Americans who go to Europe stay in very expensive places like London, Paris, Florence, Venice, etc. If you want creature comforts in these places you have to pay for them. $400 a night will get you nothing, just as $400 a night will get you nothing in New York City. I'm sure if you went to Coimbra in Portugal you could rent a villa for $400 a night. It is the law of supply and demand. That is why you can stay in a huge room at the Holiday Inn in Scranton, PA for only $90 a night. Scranton is hardly a tourist destination with millions of people lining up to book rooms.
Oct 22nd, 2001, 10:27 AM
#15
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Yes hotels in Europe may not be cookie cutter and have a stange form of charm. Just like a small house advertsed by realesate agents call a overly small house charming and cozy.
I have stayed at hotels of all price ranges in all parts of Europe from small town to Paris, London and Rome. The best that could be said for 99% of them is they were "different" I think the worst hotel values are in Amsterdam and Rome. In Rome, we were not happy with the place we reserved (The Grand Hotel Hermitage) 4 Star, but a real noisy dump, so we went looking for a better hotel. Visited 10 places trying to find something nice for under $200.00 and not one was even up to the standards of an American Super Eight.
I love Europe but hate European hotels!
I have stayed at hotels of all price ranges in all parts of Europe from small town to Paris, London and Rome. The best that could be said for 99% of them is they were "different" I think the worst hotel values are in Amsterdam and Rome. In Rome, we were not happy with the place we reserved (The Grand Hotel Hermitage) 4 Star, but a real noisy dump, so we went looking for a better hotel. Visited 10 places trying to find something nice for under $200.00 and not one was even up to the standards of an American Super Eight.
I love Europe but hate European hotels!
Oct 22nd, 2001, 10:40 AM
#16
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Hey Ugly: We stayed at the Marriott Grand Flora on the Via Veneto in Rome last year for $250 and it was up to Marriott standards in the U.S. and in a charming old palazzo overlooking the Borghese Gardens. Stayed at the Crowne Plaza Minerva also in Rome for the same price and it again was in an old palazzo overlooking the Pantheon and was better than any Crowne Plaza I've seen in the States.
If you think Rome is a rip-off, check out Venice. $400 gets a very basic accomodation, nowhere near as nice as in Rome.
If you think Rome is a rip-off, check out Venice. $400 gets a very basic accomodation, nowhere near as nice as in Rome.
Oct 22nd, 2001, 10:52 AM
#17
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Hey Ugly, it's me again. I think I see your problem. I looked up the Grand Hotel Hermitage on the internet and found it is located in the Parioli district, that's your first mistake, not near any of the sights. It's located in a "modern" building and by the picture it seems unsubstantial to say the least. It's currently undergoing renovations, which means it was unrenovated when you stayed. Lastly, what did you expect to find for under $200 as a last minute walk in. When you think Rome, think Manahattan not Sandusky, as a previous poster implied.
Homework up-front will save a lot of grief when you arrive at your hotel.
Homework up-front will save a lot of grief when you arrive at your hotel.
Oct 22nd, 2001, 11:31 AM
#19
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I think there is a bit of stereotyping going on here…
How about we turn the tables on the U.S.? Just take a look at the Fodors rants and raves section for New Orleans – where we plan to go next month. I’ve been examining it very closely because we’ve been trying to find somewhere to stay, and I was surprised to see that that there are LOADS of rants about some of the city’s supposedly top notch hotels. There are many complaints about them being severely lacking in many departments, including bad service, small rooms, mould, lack of atmosphere and cockroaches. Yum.
A previous poster made a good point about people getting more for their money in places off the tourist trail. I think hotels in any top tourist city tend to rest on their laurels to some extent or other – unless you’re lucky, or can afford to pay absolutely top whack.
Kate – London
How about we turn the tables on the U.S.? Just take a look at the Fodors rants and raves section for New Orleans – where we plan to go next month. I’ve been examining it very closely because we’ve been trying to find somewhere to stay, and I was surprised to see that that there are LOADS of rants about some of the city’s supposedly top notch hotels. There are many complaints about them being severely lacking in many departments, including bad service, small rooms, mould, lack of atmosphere and cockroaches. Yum.
A previous poster made a good point about people getting more for their money in places off the tourist trail. I think hotels in any top tourist city tend to rest on their laurels to some extent or other – unless you’re lucky, or can afford to pay absolutely top whack.
Kate – London
Oct 22nd, 2001, 12:51 PM
#20
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Micia:
Could you list some of the web sites that list details of hotels? I am looking for a site for European countries.
As for the general commentary, I do like a place that has cable tv because as a solo female traveler, I choose not to go out to pubs and night clubs alone at night. After eating dinner, I am back at the hotel and it is nice to catch up with CNN or watch a movie.
But I am not worried about the other amenities. When I travel for pleasure and not business, I am a budget traveler. My main requirements are relatively inexpensive, clean and in a safe area. TV and air conditioning are nice, but when I travel, I usually use the room only to sleep and change and shower and store my luggage. Always get tons of excercise walking and climbing stairs - have never used a gym on a vacation and don't gain weight.
I have not traveled to Europe yet. Planning to. Uglyamerican, seems that the things that you are looking for would be in a hotel that caters to business travelers. You need to search for hotels in business magazines or if you work for a company, they often have a travel department that can make recommendations for you.
Could you list some of the web sites that list details of hotels? I am looking for a site for European countries.
As for the general commentary, I do like a place that has cable tv because as a solo female traveler, I choose not to go out to pubs and night clubs alone at night. After eating dinner, I am back at the hotel and it is nice to catch up with CNN or watch a movie.
But I am not worried about the other amenities. When I travel for pleasure and not business, I am a budget traveler. My main requirements are relatively inexpensive, clean and in a safe area. TV and air conditioning are nice, but when I travel, I usually use the room only to sleep and change and shower and store my luggage. Always get tons of excercise walking and climbing stairs - have never used a gym on a vacation and don't gain weight.
I have not traveled to Europe yet. Planning to. Uglyamerican, seems that the things that you are looking for would be in a hotel that caters to business travelers. You need to search for hotels in business magazines or if you work for a company, they often have a travel department that can make recommendations for you.
