European healthcare
Aug 13th, 2007, 08:13 AM
#122
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Padraig and kenderina, the board referred specifically to appointments that were missed with NO explanation eithe before or afterwards. Not because the patient died, or had gone to hospital, or even had felt better.
And even if the patient had been hospitalised or (better) gotten well, it's selfish not to simply call up the appointments desk and say that you don't need the appointment any longer for whatever reason. Instead of just leaving it a mystery. It is a waste of resources and time, esp. for those of us who have to wait months for specialist appointments because we're deemed "routine."
My UK dentist is on a pay as you go basis and he bills for appointments that are canceled without 24 hours notice. His few remaining NHS patients are sternly warned that if they miss two appointments, they're booted. You can bet his cancelation rate is a lot lower than NHS clinics where you can blow off appointments with no notice and no consequences.
And even if the patient had been hospitalised or (better) gotten well, it's selfish not to simply call up the appointments desk and say that you don't need the appointment any longer for whatever reason. Instead of just leaving it a mystery. It is a waste of resources and time, esp. for those of us who have to wait months for specialist appointments because we're deemed "routine."
My UK dentist is on a pay as you go basis and he bills for appointments that are canceled without 24 hours notice. His few remaining NHS patients are sternly warned that if they miss two appointments, they're booted. You can bet his cancelation rate is a lot lower than NHS clinics where you can blow off appointments with no notice and no consequences.
Aug 13th, 2007, 08:48 AM
#123
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Padraig writes
>tomboy articulates a point of view that I think is more commonly held in the US than in Europe -- that poor people are poor by choice, and undeserving of help.
It's that old Calvinist thing: poor people are sinful. If they weren't sinful they wouldn't be poor.
>One can be raised 'poor', ...for fruit or vegetables for your child. <
So, there's this woman, age about 30, whose husband walks out on her and the kid. She has a BA degree, but not much in the way of job skills. She'd like to teach French, but she doesn't have a Certificate, so she can only do that privately. It's not enough to pay the rent.
In the US, she would get some money from AFDC and some food stamps from WIC. There might be some healthcare for the kid, but not for her.
She thinks that she could write a children's book but, with having to work two jobs and caring for her daughter, doesn't have time for it.
Someone suggests that she apply for a grant. She is laughed at because she doesn't have the proper credentials.
If she is injured or gets sick and can't take care of the kid, it will be taken from her by the CFPS and put in foster care until she can "properly" provide for it, which might be never.
She is one of the "working poor". She lives on the edge of being thrown out of her lodgings. As careful as she might be with her money, it's never quite enough.
She can't afford medical care.
If she is ever seriously ill, she loses everything.
What is this woman doing wrong, tomboy?
>
>If I were a habitually unemployed high school dropout, I would probably feel otherwise.
And how would you feel if you were a hard working, well educated specialist diagnosed with some protracted illness and subsequently laid off in course of the companyīs restructuring?<
Good point, Alta.
A neighbor of mine used to be in the private banking business. He retired at age 50, bought himself a farm and a house in town and now "dabbles" in the stock market.
He is a firmly committed Capitalist, with no patience for "entitlements".
He does believe, however, that the lack of a universal health care system is a major drag on the US economy, because it prevents people from taking the risks associated with being entrepreneurs.
>tomboy articulates a point of view that I think is more commonly held in the US than in Europe -- that poor people are poor by choice, and undeserving of help.
It's that old Calvinist thing: poor people are sinful. If they weren't sinful they wouldn't be poor.
>One can be raised 'poor', ...for fruit or vegetables for your child. <
So, there's this woman, age about 30, whose husband walks out on her and the kid. She has a BA degree, but not much in the way of job skills. She'd like to teach French, but she doesn't have a Certificate, so she can only do that privately. It's not enough to pay the rent.
In the US, she would get some money from AFDC and some food stamps from WIC. There might be some healthcare for the kid, but not for her.
She thinks that she could write a children's book but, with having to work two jobs and caring for her daughter, doesn't have time for it.
Someone suggests that she apply for a grant. She is laughed at because she doesn't have the proper credentials.
If she is injured or gets sick and can't take care of the kid, it will be taken from her by the CFPS and put in foster care until she can "properly" provide for it, which might be never.
She is one of the "working poor". She lives on the edge of being thrown out of her lodgings. As careful as she might be with her money, it's never quite enough.
She can't afford medical care.
If she is ever seriously ill, she loses everything.
What is this woman doing wrong, tomboy?
>
>If I were a habitually unemployed high school dropout, I would probably feel otherwise.
And how would you feel if you were a hard working, well educated specialist diagnosed with some protracted illness and subsequently laid off in course of the companyīs restructuring?<
Good point, Alta.
A neighbor of mine used to be in the private banking business. He retired at age 50, bought himself a farm and a house in town and now "dabbles" in the stock market.
He is a firmly committed Capitalist, with no patience for "entitlements".
He does believe, however, that the lack of a universal health care system is a major drag on the US economy, because it prevents people from taking the risks associated with being entrepreneurs.
Aug 13th, 2007, 08:53 AM
#124
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is another reason for missed appointments.
I saw my G.P. about a cyst on the back of my leg. It was not urgent - the cyst had been there for years. She said that she would refer me to a specialist. I went on a 3 week holiday (to the United States) and came back to find that I had an appointment for the day of the flight back. Unsurprisingly, I missed it.
As for winos and drug addicts, the other people I meet in hospital and doctor's waiting rooms are ordinary people like me.
The purpose of state healthcare systems is not that the rich pay for the poor, but that everyone pays when well so that all can receive treatment when sick. It may be thought a socialist principle if you like, or perhaps a Christian one.
I saw my G.P. about a cyst on the back of my leg. It was not urgent - the cyst had been there for years. She said that she would refer me to a specialist. I went on a 3 week holiday (to the United States) and came back to find that I had an appointment for the day of the flight back. Unsurprisingly, I missed it.
As for winos and drug addicts, the other people I meet in hospital and doctor's waiting rooms are ordinary people like me.
The purpose of state healthcare systems is not that the rich pay for the poor, but that everyone pays when well so that all can receive treatment when sick. It may be thought a socialist principle if you like, or perhaps a Christian one.
Aug 13th, 2007, 08:54 AM
#125
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,057
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
smueller: I spend my working life dealing with drug addicts and winos (paid by the state) - what sort of loser does that make me in your Jesusland world view?
Also
gt;>>>>
BTilke, usually the reason is sometimes the people can't (or don't want to) wait for their appointment..and has gone to the ER (or if the thing was a minor one, to a private doctor).>>>>
Actually the vast majority of them just get better - as would most people without any kind of medical intervention.
The rest blow off the appointment because they can always get another one - free of charge.
I would be amazed if even one percent went private, or to Casualty.
Also
gt;>>>>BTilke, usually the reason is sometimes the people can't (or don't want to) wait for their appointment..and has gone to the ER (or if the thing was a minor one, to a private doctor).>>>>
Actually the vast majority of them just get better - as would most people without any kind of medical intervention.
The rest blow off the appointment because they can always get another one - free of charge.
I would be amazed if even one percent went private, or to Casualty.
Aug 13th, 2007, 09:00 AM
#126
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Arrogant or not, I certainly do believe that people that take care of themselves (or at least try) deserve better healthcare than people that knowingly abuse their bodies on a regular basis. I suppose those that subscribe to the "addict as a victim of society" mentality might disagree.
Aug 13th, 2007, 09:01 AM
#127
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
>The rest blow off the appointment because they can always get another one - free of charge.<
How difficult would it be to assess a small charge for each missed appointment?
My dentist assesses $50 for missed appointments. Don't pay the fee, don't come back.
How difficult would it be to assess a small charge for each missed appointment?
My dentist assesses $50 for missed appointments. Don't pay the fee, don't come back.
Aug 13th, 2007, 09:08 AM
#129
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<Arrogant or not, I certainly do believe that people that take care of themselves (or at least try) deserve better healthcare than people that knowingly abuse their bodies on a regular basis.>
insurance companies will love you as they deny health care to folks 'knowingly abuse their bodies on a regular basis' - such as
smokers of course and also those who vountarily expose themselves to second hand smoke
folks who drink more than what the medicianl amount of booze a day is
folks who allow themselves thru diet to have high cholesterol or anyone who eats fast food regularly
miners and though who expose their lungs to unhealthy air down there
folks who spend too much time in the sun - why should we treat their skin cancers?
folks who eat meat - known to cause lots of health problems and cancer
and on and on and on
the folks who are really abusing themselves - i.e. not getting preventative or needed health care when they should of course won't have insurance anyway
smueller - the dozen or so people who would qualify according to your rules will love all the medical attention they will get
insurance companies will love you as they deny health care to folks 'knowingly abuse their bodies on a regular basis' - such as
smokers of course and also those who vountarily expose themselves to second hand smoke
folks who drink more than what the medicianl amount of booze a day is
folks who allow themselves thru diet to have high cholesterol or anyone who eats fast food regularly
miners and though who expose their lungs to unhealthy air down there
folks who spend too much time in the sun - why should we treat their skin cancers?
folks who eat meat - known to cause lots of health problems and cancer
and on and on and on
the folks who are really abusing themselves - i.e. not getting preventative or needed health care when they should of course won't have insurance anyway
smueller - the dozen or so people who would qualify according to your rules will love all the medical attention they will get
Aug 13th, 2007, 09:16 AM
#131
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,057
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How difficult would it be to assess a small charge for each missed appointment?>>>>
Not very I'd have thought. I also think it's a good idea. As I say, people blow off literally millions of appointments a year because they can't be arsed to ring and cancel. Charge a tenner a time and people would make the call.
>>>>My dentist assesses $50 for missed appointments. Don't pay the fee, don't come back.>>>>
That wouldn't work. The people have to be treated somewhere, so you would be stuck with a number of people who are just plain useless at keeping appointments. However the numbers of missed appointments would be lower.
Not very I'd have thought. I also think it's a good idea. As I say, people blow off literally millions of appointments a year because they can't be arsed to ring and cancel. Charge a tenner a time and people would make the call.
>>>>My dentist assesses $50 for missed appointments. Don't pay the fee, don't come back.>>>>
That wouldn't work. The people have to be treated somewhere, so you would be stuck with a number of people who are just plain useless at keeping appointments. However the numbers of missed appointments would be lower.
