I'm clueless about trains in Europe. I've been looking at Eurail passes and they are quite expensive. I know we will need about 3 rides (Paris-Zurich) (Zurich to Florence) (Florence to Rome). If we want to go around Switzerland and Italy, do we need extra Eurail days? Or can we take some other means? We are staying at Arabella Sheraton and we want to go to Zurich, Bern and Geneva and if time permits go on side trips like to a watch factory or museum. We are there for 4 full days.

Assuming that you are spending some time in Paris, Florence, and Rome, it is almost a certainty that point to point tickets will be more economical than buying a pass.

http://www.railsaver.com/default.asp

has a feature where you can plug in your destinations and it will advise you which pass, if any, is best (select "only if railpasses save me money).

Since it appears you will be training more frequently in Switzerland, one of the Swiss passes may be a good deal for you. Do a search here for "swiss railpass" or similar terms and you will find many threads that cover the swiss passes thoroughly, but it is a very convoluted topic, and there is not really a "right" answer in most cases, as a lot depends on your itinerary, how many of you there are (and how old), the possibility of changes, and the feeling of some travelers that they like to have their costs fixed, and at the same time, be able to step onto a train anywhere, anytime.

1. If you only have 4 days in Switzerland do NOT do day trips between Zurich and Geneva. The train ride is 3 hours between the two. Pick one or the other and do day trips from there to places in the vicinity of each. It is a toss up which you pick as a base. It appears you have picked Zurich with your reference to the Arabella. However, don’t rule out the Geneva area as a base. The immediate vicinity of Geneva like Vevey, Lausanne and Montreux (about half hour to 45 minutes by train) are very beautiful and I would suggest you base yourself there instead of Geneva, I would even skip Geneva entirely if you pick to base yourself in western Switzerland. For Zurich, the really beautiful mountain areas are about 2 hours by train, i.e. Murren, Wegen or Gimmelwald in the Interlaken area. Much as I love Zurich, I would give it one day and the spend rest in the mountains, or 1.5 days and head for the mountains in the afternoon of the second day.

What time of year is your trip? That would affect some recommendations.

I would not spend all my time just in Swiss cities. While charming and clean, the countryside is so beautiful it would be shame to miss it. With only 4 days, I would skip Bern entirely on this trip, you really do not have a long time and seeing a quite secondary (although very nice) town would not be a good use of your time, IMO.

2. Look into cheap flights between Paris and Zurich/Geneva. If you are planning on taking a night train you won’t see any scenery anyway, so IMO there goes the main reason to take a train. Fares on carriers like Volare are very cheap, very often half or less the cost of the train; but do consider taxi or bus fare to Paris airport, traffic getting to the airport and that you need to be at the airport about an hour before the flight. Also take into account their excess baggage costs if you have a lot of luggage. The airports in both Geneva and Zurich have their own train stations and you can hop on a train and be downtown in less than 15 minutes, or can continue onto another destination like Vevey.

Also consider flying from Zurich or Geneva to Florence. IMO, this would only be better than the night train if you can get a non-stop or if with a change you save at least 4 hours over the train time. ( If you have time, the day train trip is actually very pretty from either Geneva or Zurich.) You may also be able to fly to Pisa cheaply from either. (I know from your other posts that you might be interested in a brief trip to Pisa.) A mother load of info on discount carriers in Europe can be found at http://www.discountairfares.com/lcosteur.htm
and http://www.thissen.net/lowcost.html

3. Once you determine how many train rides you will be taking within Europe and within Switzerland, you can get a better handle on whether or what rail pass would be economical. My guess is that if you just take three trains to go from France to Switzerland to Italy one way on trains, then a Eurail pass is not going to be economical. It is another question whether one of the Swiss passes for use within Switzerland will be economical. There are people on this board who love to do that kind of math, so once you work out an itinerary, post it here and ask for opinions on what type of passes would be best.

4. Get a good guidebook to the countries you are considering, which has maps showing relative distances between places. From your questions here and your other posts, it seems you don’t have basic information which you need to make plans. While this site is helpful, it is no substitute for basic travel information. Even old guidebooks from a public library work, as the destinations and other information don’t’ change, only the prices and reccos for hotels and restaurants do.

Thanks clevelandbrown and Cicerone - you've always been helpful.
I'm with Trafalgar Tours for 16 days and me and my husband have 8 extra days to go anywhere after and the plan is:
Apr 3-4 overnight in Paris (tour already included this)
Apr 4-7 Arabella Sheraton in Vitznau (is that in Lucerne?) No choice here because we get an employee rate of the hotel for ONLY US$29/night! Btw is Lucerne the Train Station we will be using if Vitznau is our base?
Apr 5 Bern is a must for shopping experience... (I've already canceled The Mall in Florence), it's a woman thing, go figure... (my husband does not have a clue about all these), but he likes to see a Rolex store, so I'm sure he'll agree...
Apr 6 Geneva, just to see the UN and what else can we do that day? Go countryside, is there time?
Apr 7 We go around Zurich. Is there a locker storage for baggages at the Train station in Zurich? Are there many or just one station there? Cause we have to wait until the 23:00 train to Florence.
couchette on the 7th arrive Florence 8th in the morning / go to Pisa.
Apr 8-11 Rome, we visit Pompei for a day, see the Vatican... other Christian historical sites... around Rome...
I've been doing a lot of researching on the internet, but that's the thing-I'm clueless on how trains work. I thought because they are fast rains, it takes shorter time. I forgot to consider that it is public transpo therefore many train stops. I want to take the option of driving but I know they become expensive and tiring. It's different when you look at maps on pictures cause here in the States driving for a good 200 miles is easy and parking is not an issue unless you go to the major cities. I live in Las Vegas and parking is NEVER an issue (except on New Year's Eve)
So what do you think guys?

If I understand your plan in Switzerland - Zurich, Bern and Geneva you plan only 1 day/night each place?

Once you subtract checking out of hotel, getting to the train station, the train ride time, getting to and checking into next hotel... you will end up with barely 1/2 day in each location. It's not so much about the speed of the train, but that is a considerable distance you are trying to cover in little to no time.

I would definitely take trains, not rent a car for what you describe attempting here.

JC4every1,

Oh boy... where do I start?

1) Why go Paris to Luzern in one day, then basically backtrack to Geneva? Do Paris-Geneva, then Geneva-Luzern/Vitznau. Forget Zurich, just go straight to Rome from there.

2) Bern for SHOPPING??? Geneva has much better shopping or Zurich is an easy day trip away from Luzern - not to mention Paris or Rome!!! Bern's old town is beautiful and it has an excellent art museum, but I'm not sure that's what you're looking for.

3) Geneva: the UN is a snooze IMO, in April you could take a day trip up to Chamonix, otherwise the old town and lakeside are nice and there are some good museums. But if you're just there on an overnight stop between Paris and Luzern, this would be an ideal time to go on your shopping spree.

4) You write about wanting to see the "countryside", yet only mention cities. Swiss countryside means 2 things: lakes and mountains. Your location in Vitznau is ideal for enjoying Lake Luzern. As for mountains, early April is still the height of the ski season (Easter break), so bring warm clothes! Luzern offers some nearby attractions such as the Rigi and Pilatus summits, but the the Jungfrau area (Jungfraujoch, Schilthorn etc.), which you can easily access on a (long) day trip from Vitznau, is the big deal - save that day trip for nice weather!

5) Bool your train tickets from Paris to Geneva 60 days in advance at:
www.sncf.com
in order to get the best fare. Do a search on this forum for tips on how to use the site.

6) Tickets for domestic trains in Switzerland can be purchased at the train station prior to departure. Schedules and fares can be found at:
www.rail.ch
The site has all schedules for trains to, from and within Switzerland (it also includes boat and bus schedules within Switzerland).

7) You can get from Luzern to Vitznau by boat (not that frequent) or you need to take a local train to Küssnacht, then a bus. Both options take about an hour. The boats leave right in front of Luzern train station. All connections (boat and train/bus) can be found at www.rail.ch

8)You might want to book the train from Luzern to Rome (takes 8-9 hours with 1-2 changes) in advance at:
www.rail.ch

9) Skip Florence. It breaks my heart, but with those time constraints it just doesn't make sense.

10) Forget about renting a car for the whole journey, the drop charge from France to Italy will kill you.

11) Finally, you should realize that part of the reason why you are getting such a great rate in Vitznau is that the town will be quite DEAD, as it is a summer resort destination and many attractions and activities operating on a strongly reduced schedule (the lake steamers) and some not at all. The action is up in the ski resorts at that time of year.

Hope this helps,
Andre

Thanks suze, and andre I am really considering your plan and I am reorganizing. Don't be heart-broken cause Florence is included in our previous tour. The extra days we took are just for leisure and some missed spots. But we really have to have a picture at the Leaning Tower, so Pisa is still in. And Pompei is a must. The others we will be flexible. (I'll do the shopping elsewhere).
This is great guys, I'm glad I asked. I can't wait for March-April!