twoflower

When you live in Australia you get Asia every time you go to Europe. Only a few airlines go from the antipodes to Europe via the Americas (Air NZ is one). And with a 24-hour flight time, people almost always break the flight with an Asian stopover. So far my wife and I have stopped for 3-4 days at a time in Singapore, Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Ko Samui, Kuala Lumpur, Malacca, and Tokyo - nearly always on our way to, or on our way back from, Europe.

Truth is, with all this more or less "forced" exposure (I once flew the whole Amsterdam-Australia thing without a stopover and it was pretty draining) we feel pretty well Asia'd-out! Only once have I done it via the Americas (Toronto & Hawaii), because it is significantly more expensive that way.

Don't get me wrong: like most genuine travellers I never went anywhere that I didn't enjoy while I was there. And the people are immensely friendly. But I never feel the passion to return and see more of an Asian destination that I feel when I go to a European destination.

twoflower

Having said what I just said (above), I should amend my remarks slightly and admit to a moderate interest in some Asian destinations that I haven't experienced yet: Vietnam, Cambodia, and India. But my next trip's stopover (in September) is already planned: Dubai.

logos999

>living conditions are absolutely incredible.
I'm absolutely fascinated, how little people know about the planet they walk on. It actually sends shivers down my spine!!, that one feels the need to post these "new findings" here. Been living in wonderland for quite a few years? Now maybe it's time to start looking around you and there's no need to tavel far for that. Sorry, needed to be said.

LeighTravelClub

Not sure what you expected in Vietnam. Please don't give up on Asia, theres loads more for you to do.
As a Brit who has done probably everywhere in Europe and lots in the Far East, Asia wins every time. If you want luxury then it is easy to outdo Europe. Give me a five star hotel in Asia any time.
Why don't you consider Thailand for a future trip. Probably the easiest intro to Asia.

Dukey

Well, Julies, I guess you've figured out by now that "Asia" comprises a great many more countries than VietNam; I would agree that others sucxh as China, Japan, Thailand, etc., etc., will offer a somewhat different experience.

Having lived in VN for a year I can understand why you might find it "more confusing" that some European countries you have visited.

I would say you learned a great deal more about living conditions worldwide than you ever expected to and that never hurts; from what you've written I suspect you learned a little more about yourself as well.

Travel can be enriching and enlightening even when it doesn't compare with sitting in some roadside cafe feeling self-satisfied.

julies

Wait a second here. I never said that I would never return to anywhere in Asia, and I realize it's a huge place. I just said that we were exhausted upon our return and our next trip will probably be our more typical rental of a European house or apartment where we can relax and explore an area in depth.

And poverty. Yes we've seen it before, but never to this extent. We've stayed in a Mayan village in the Yucatan where the villagers commute 3 to 4 hours each way every day to service those who stay in the Americanized resort of Cancun. Litter was as bad or worse in Romania because trash is a problem in emerging nations.

And to whomever it is who thinks I am a snob, I don't look at it that way even if you do. I am counting my blessings that I can have the luxury to come home to my automatic washing machine, dishwasher, house with central heating etc. I was actually ashamed of what we have in our materialistically oriented culture and certainly realized that we met many people in Vietnam who are probably truly happier than those who live in the West and base their self-worth on which possessions they can flaunt.

And, finally to offend a few more people, I came home and read a post on this forum this week, to which a lot of people contributed with serious answers, about whether it is preferable to stay in a 4* or 5* hotel in Paris when one wants to pay $750 a night. And, some of you think I'm a snob who doesn't have my priorities straight!

As I said we didn't take a trip where we stayed in the 4 & 5* places that shelter Westerners between the time you get on and off the air-conditioned tour bus and where they just look out the window at the scenes. We spent 5 days bicycling in the Mekong Delta, 3 days trekking in the northen mountains including a homestay in a corner of a Hmong family's "house", a homestay in another minority village and the rest of the time in very small local owned hotels or guesthouses. Perhaps this is why our experience was different from those who take the typical tourist route.

We'll give somewhere else in Asia a try in the future--India, Malaysia & northern Thailand are on our radar. but, our next vacation will be somewhere else.

Dukey

I don't think there is any doubt that your experience was worthwhile in many ways....and certainly a lot more adventurous than many frequent posters here are probably used to or comfortable with.

But you've certainly been around this board long enough to know that anything TRULY BEYOND the "usual" is going to stir up fear and anxiety in some folks.

Relax...nobody who has actually BEEN to some of these places like you have and has seen a lot of the same stuff you have is going to get on your case.

Getting defensive about what you've done isn't necessary.

Clifton

I agree with Dukey - you don't anyone anything. Again, I appreciate the chance to see a new experience through someone else's eyes and think you've done plenty just coming back to let people know the outcome, since some of us were curious how it went. FYI - I'd imagine that most of the people who are prescribing a reality check aren't in the position to explain the "real world" to you either. Interesting way to approach a trip, with the local approach. Few would think to do the same.

Clifton

that is to say: you don't OWE anyone anything

Cimbrone

julies, your post was absolutely fine! Those criticizing you are the ones with the problem. So what if you were shocked at the poverty! Poverty can be shocking, and it was honest of you to admit it. Never did it sound like you were looking down your nose at anyone. And, as you point out, you did far better than some on this board who regularly debate what $100 per head dining experience is truly worth it. Snobbery and misplaced values indeed!

RufusTFirefly

logos--it's one thing to see it on TV or read about it in the newspaper. It really is quite another to be in the middle of it.

tod

Thanks for posting Julies - I admire the fact you did the trip the hard way and saw Vietnam as it really is and were factual about it. Even though you are well travelled and been to places many of us have never considered, from your description it must have been a huge culture shock for you.
I live in the Third World of Africa and it's pretty bad here in places but even so, I think a place like India would not be for me.
Thanks again for such an interesting trip report!

SharonG

Just wanted to give you some support for getting out of the "Europe comfort zone". I usually only ever want to go to Paris but last year went to Buenos Aries and was pleasantly surprised at how much I loved it. Glad you gave another place on our amazing planet a try. Me, I'm not so adventurous. My biggest risk this year will be to add Amsterdam to the Paris trip!

111op

It was an interesting post -- but I find this a little naive and ignorant.

Take this statement, which I'm not sure how I should react to: "Count your blessings that you were not born in a third world country. I think everyone should, at some time, make a trip to see how the majority of the people in the world live so as to gain a perspective on how truly well-off and privileged we in the West are."

Was it Bill Gates or Warren Buffet who said that if given a choice, he'd rather be born in China again?

Granted I've never been to Vietnam, but Asia is proceeding in such leaps and bounds that I read Intel is building a research center in -- well, Vietnam.

Economic developments go in cycles. Even Vietnam is impoverished at the moment, it's unlikely to stay impoverished for much longer.

The whole post made me wonder why the original poster chose Vietnam in the first place. It seems to have proven to be such an expectations mismatch. As many other posters pointed out, some other Asian country would probably have fitted the bill much better.

Was this insufficient research? I wonder what the original poster was expecting before she left?

missypie

Thank you for your honest post. I found it interesting, because a few days in Vietman on guided tours of Asia has become quite trendy. I have a feeling that the folks on those guided tours don't see a lot of what you saw.

crefloors

Good report and I appreciated your perspective. I admire you for getting out of your "comfort zone". I don't think we have to fall in love with every place we visit.

Aleckii

Well, I didn't think she chose it out of insufficient research. Julies clearly stated she 'chose' to visit Vietnam when she could do otherwise. And really I wasn't offended in the least bit, even if I was born in another south-east asian country. I have paid visits to nearby regions (Pontianak, Indonesia, around 10 years ago), and encountered the same thing. The worst thing was- they were not living next to a river, but a drain.

I was 12 then, and even then it struck me hard, to see people living in such conditions. And I did have this sinking feeling like, what have I been doing living in my ignorant lives?

At least julies took the time to get to know the side of the world a lot chose to ignore.

Julies- if you're planning a visit to the Borneo islands anytime soon (July or August), you could try to contact me, I'll be home by then, and wouldn't mind sharing travel stories.

111op

Well, I've never been to Indonesia either, so I can't say how it's changed in 10 years. But the fact is -- a lot can change in 10 years. China is a good example.

Even NYC has changed a lot in 10 years. If you last visited the E Village 10 years, you may very much want to visit again.

I'm still wondering what the original poster expected before she went on her trip. Of course it's great that we venture out of our comfort zones, but somehow I get the impression that if the original poster had known what she saw she wouldn't have gone in the first place. So isn't this the sort of thing that could have been avoided with more research or planning?

I guess what I find puzzling about this is that she saw Vietnam, thought that it was very primitive, felt that she was very lucky to live in the West, and doesn't have a strong desire to visit another Asian destination.

Then somehow she's equated Vietnam with the rest of Asia -- rather inappropriately -- as people have pointed out -- and then proceeded to make rather sweeping generalizations. Of course I do realize that she's entitled to her own impressions, and they don't need any validation from me or someone else. I'm similarly posting my reactions.

fishee

I can't be the only one who walks through the Louvre feeling overwhelmed and haunted by the centuries of pillage and plunder that pervade the whole space. It's a true embodiment of W. Civilization and all its contradictions.

SharonG

Fishee, I felt the same way after going to Greece and then within a few weeks seeing the Elgin Marbles in London.