Europe in November, need some help!
Sep 14th, 2016, 12:46 PM
#21
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Don't mind St. Cirq and Whathello. They are known to be rude.
I think you can definitely see those places within a month, and at a reasonable pace. Most people here are above 60 years, so the idea of moving around would make them cringe.
Here's the itinerary I would suggest:
Paris 5 days
Amsterdam 3 days
Berlin 4 days
Prague 3 days
Vienna 4 days
Fly to Lisbon
Lisbon 4 days
Seville 4 days (daytrip to Cordoba)
Fly to Barcelona
Barcelona 4 days
Total: 31 days
In November I would stick to big cities with lots of indoor attractions and avoid beach towns and some islands because they tend to shut down.
You'll likely to have warm weather in Lisbon and Seville. Barcelona will be chilly. Paris, Vienna will be cold and wet but it doesn't matter because they have so many museums to keep you busy.
I think you can definitely see those places within a month, and at a reasonable pace. Most people here are above 60 years, so the idea of moving around would make them cringe.
Here's the itinerary I would suggest:
Paris 5 days
Amsterdam 3 days
Berlin 4 days
Prague 3 days
Vienna 4 days
Fly to Lisbon
Lisbon 4 days
Seville 4 days (daytrip to Cordoba)
Fly to Barcelona
Barcelona 4 days
Total: 31 days
In November I would stick to big cities with lots of indoor attractions and avoid beach towns and some islands because they tend to shut down.
You'll likely to have warm weather in Lisbon and Seville. Barcelona will be chilly. Paris, Vienna will be cold and wet but it doesn't matter because they have so many museums to keep you busy.
Sep 14th, 2016, 02:26 PM
#23
>>Don't mind St. Cirq and Whathello. They are known to be rude. <<
Wow - talk about the pot calling the kettle . . .
>>Total: 31 days <<
Loacker's itinerary would require about 39+ days because it doesn't take into account travel time.
Wow - talk about the pot calling the kettle . . .
>>Total: 31 days <<
Loacker's itinerary would require about 39+ days because it doesn't take into account travel time.
Sep 14th, 2016, 04:17 PM
#25
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Riggyk,
Kudos for having the good sense and grace to apologize to people who do want to help. Sometimes advice seems terse, but it is wise to listen to all. I am not one of them, but many on this forum live in Europe or spend months there and are experts on various countries, modes of transportation, etc. Yep, we all have biases, but travel style doesn't come just because of age. It is also experience.
It is crucial to figure in travel time if you want an accurate idea of how much time you will have in a place. That includes time from your hostel to the train station or airport, time on the train or time at the airport plus flight time, and then time from the airport or train station to your new hostel. Average will eat up 1/2 day, some slightly less, some a lot more.
You also need to figure out what you want to see in each place and how long that will take. You may not be big on tourists sights, but would you really want to walk by the outside of Notre Dame in Paris and not see the inside? I think, for sure, you absolutely must go inside Sagrada Familia in Barcelona, and take a walk in Parc Guell. A fast paced, quick look is one thing. Not seeing anything is another. Most people seem able to keep up a fast pace for a week or two, but then things start to be a blur of train stations and airports. Of course, you can do things in the 1/2 days, but a lot more with concentrated whole days. You need two nights to get a whole day, three nights for two whole days, etc.
Start playing around with actually laying out an itinerary that is realistic and includes travel time.
Day 1, depart (US?)
Day 2, arrive (Amsterdam)? Allow for jet lag. Walk. Get ready for day 3
Day 3, sight see
Day 4, sight see (day trip to Haarlem?)
Day 4, travel to next city, allow average of 1/2 day for travel
Day 5, sight see
Day 6, sight see, day trip to nearby town
Day 7, travel 1/2 day
Day 8-24 ?
Day 25, travel to Ireland 1/2 day, plus time to reach family. Where are they? That could take an entire day, depending on location.
Day 26, 27, 28, Ireland
Day 29, return to departure city for night before flight.
Day 30, depart for home
Kudos for having the good sense and grace to apologize to people who do want to help. Sometimes advice seems terse, but it is wise to listen to all. I am not one of them, but many on this forum live in Europe or spend months there and are experts on various countries, modes of transportation, etc. Yep, we all have biases, but travel style doesn't come just because of age. It is also experience.
It is crucial to figure in travel time if you want an accurate idea of how much time you will have in a place. That includes time from your hostel to the train station or airport, time on the train or time at the airport plus flight time, and then time from the airport or train station to your new hostel. Average will eat up 1/2 day, some slightly less, some a lot more.
You also need to figure out what you want to see in each place and how long that will take. You may not be big on tourists sights, but would you really want to walk by the outside of Notre Dame in Paris and not see the inside? I think, for sure, you absolutely must go inside Sagrada Familia in Barcelona, and take a walk in Parc Guell. A fast paced, quick look is one thing. Not seeing anything is another. Most people seem able to keep up a fast pace for a week or two, but then things start to be a blur of train stations and airports. Of course, you can do things in the 1/2 days, but a lot more with concentrated whole days. You need two nights to get a whole day, three nights for two whole days, etc.
Start playing around with actually laying out an itinerary that is realistic and includes travel time.
Day 1, depart (US?)
Day 2, arrive (Amsterdam)? Allow for jet lag. Walk. Get ready for day 3
Day 3, sight see
Day 4, sight see (day trip to Haarlem?)
Day 4, travel to next city, allow average of 1/2 day for travel
Day 5, sight see
Day 6, sight see, day trip to nearby town
Day 7, travel 1/2 day
Day 8-24 ?
Day 25, travel to Ireland 1/2 day, plus time to reach family. Where are they? That could take an entire day, depending on location.
Day 26, 27, 28, Ireland
Day 29, return to departure city for night before flight.
Day 30, depart for home
Sep 14th, 2016, 04:29 PM
#26
>>Loacker's itinerary would require about 39+ days because it doesn't take into account travel time.<<
Just noticed Loacker left out your 3 or 4 days in Ireland, so it would actually total about 44-45+ days.
Sassafrass has given you some good guidelines for working out what is actually doable.
Just noticed Loacker left out your 3 or 4 days in Ireland, so it would actually total about 44-45+ days.
Sassafrass has given you some good guidelines for working out what is actually doable.
Sep 14th, 2016, 09:56 PM
#27
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That's why I suggested 5 days in Paris. I've taken into account the 3 hours by train to Amsterdam. If you take the evening train you don't have to waste a day of travel.
If you follow my suggested itinerary, you can have at least 3 to 4 full days in whey city.
If you follow my suggested itinerary, you can have at least 3 to 4 full days in whey city.
Sep 14th, 2016, 11:33 PM
#28
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Seems OP is right when he says he is the only one capable of doing the math Loacker.
You forget to take into account time for checking out, time to go to the trainstation, waiting time at the trainstation, train being late - don't know how familiar you are with Thalys but 90% of their trains are 10 min late from Paris to Bxl, so I expect them to be late by 20-30 min to Amst. Time to leave the station in Amst and to find the hotel, time to check in.
At the end, as others have said it takes a half day to move from one city to another.
I wonder how you travel and how old you are actually.
I know I'm rude and old, but I'm wondering about you ?
Bof, no, I'm not. I don't care.
You forget to take into account time for checking out, time to go to the trainstation, waiting time at the trainstation, train being late - don't know how familiar you are with Thalys but 90% of their trains are 10 min late from Paris to Bxl, so I expect them to be late by 20-30 min to Amst. Time to leave the station in Amst and to find the hotel, time to check in.
At the end, as others have said it takes a half day to move from one city to another.
I wonder how you travel and how old you are actually.
I know I'm rude and old, but I'm wondering about you ?
Bof, no, I'm not. I don't care.
Sep 14th, 2016, 11:59 PM
#29
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Ok, so omitting Barcelona in favor of Dublin
Paris 4.5 days
(+0.5 days traveling to Amsterdam)
Amsterdam 3 days
(+0.5 days traveling to Berlin)
Berlin 4 days
(+0.5 traveling to Prague)
Prague 3 days
(+0.5 traveling to Vienna)
Vienna 3 days
(+0.5 traveling to Lisbon)
Lisbon 3 days
(+0.5 traveling to Seville)
Seville 4 days
(+0.5 traveling to Dublin)
Dublin 4 days
Total: 32 days including travel time.
I don't know but it looks doable according to my math.
I'm 31 now and tend to prefer slow travel, but I've done whirlwind trips and they were hella fun.
Bubye!
Paris 4.5 days
(+0.5 days traveling to Amsterdam)
Amsterdam 3 days
(+0.5 days traveling to Berlin)
Berlin 4 days
(+0.5 traveling to Prague)
Prague 3 days
(+0.5 traveling to Vienna)
Vienna 3 days
(+0.5 traveling to Lisbon)
Lisbon 3 days
(+0.5 traveling to Seville)
Seville 4 days
(+0.5 traveling to Dublin)
Dublin 4 days
Total: 32 days including travel time.
I don't know but it looks doable according to my math.
I'm 31 now and tend to prefer slow travel, but I've done whirlwind trips and they were hella fun.
Bubye!
Sep 15th, 2016, 12:05 AM
#30
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Hostels will always be cheaper than AirBnB. You should reserve in advance if going to large cities. AirBnB is not always the best option, especially if only staying one or two nights.
You can save money if you look on the French railway website http://www.sncf.com/ and if you can book tickets in advance. Sometimes there are good sales, which might save you money instead of buying a rail pass.
Whathello is correct about delays when taking trains pretty much anywhere.
Sometimes, it's better to fly with a low-cost airline than to spend money and waste time taking the train.
You won't have as much time on the ground as you think you will, when you consider that you'll have to wait around a lot. I'd recommend cutting a few cities out of your trip.
You can save money if you look on the French railway website http://www.sncf.com/ and if you can book tickets in advance. Sometimes there are good sales, which might save you money instead of buying a rail pass.
Whathello is correct about delays when taking trains pretty much anywhere.
Sometimes, it's better to fly with a low-cost airline than to spend money and waste time taking the train.
You won't have as much time on the ground as you think you will, when you consider that you'll have to wait around a lot. I'd recommend cutting a few cities out of your trip.
Sep 15th, 2016, 04:32 AM
#31
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For the OP. You said Ireland, so not sure where your family is. Landing and touring is easy. Meeting up with family may take extra travel time. You might want to fly into a different or smaller airport - Shannon, Cork, etc and back to the US from Shannon or Dublin, depending on flights.
If family will be picking you up, great, and they can advise, but choices may be limited, and it might be a long turn-a-around drive for them.
Often, from the US, I landed in Dublin, but was just late enough I couldn't count on getting to the train station for a more direct, late morning train. The next was early afternoon and I never got to my DD's house on the West Coast until late afternoon.
You could rent a car and drive from the airport - if you are not tired when you get there and don't mind driving on the left.
Almost always, flights returning to the US were early, early morning, so I stayed in a hotel near the airport the night before, both in Shannon and Dublin. Again, depending on where your family is, that return to Dublin or Shannon can eat up an afternoon.
The nice thing is, flights from Ireland to US are short.
If family will be picking you up, great, and they can advise, but choices may be limited, and it might be a long turn-a-around drive for them.
Often, from the US, I landed in Dublin, but was just late enough I couldn't count on getting to the train station for a more direct, late morning train. The next was early afternoon and I never got to my DD's house on the West Coast until late afternoon.
You could rent a car and drive from the airport - if you are not tired when you get there and don't mind driving on the left.
Almost always, flights returning to the US were early, early morning, so I stayed in a hotel near the airport the night before, both in Shannon and Dublin. Again, depending on where your family is, that return to Dublin or Shannon can eat up an afternoon.
The nice thing is, flights from Ireland to US are short.
Sep 15th, 2016, 06:55 AM
#33
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After some deliberation I've thought about this:
Paris (3-4 days, a friend suggested come back here and devote proper time when the weather is ideal, take a few days just to hit some museums)
Amsterdam (3-4 days)
Berlin (3-4 days)
Prague? - Is this worth it? Hearing a SKIP from friends here. Getting mixed feedback. Some say yes, some say no.
(Was told NO on Vienna and just skip)
Budapest (3-4 days)
Fly from Budapest to Barcelona - Spend a good chunk of time over here, 3-4 days in Barcelona, one 24-48 period in Lisbon. Flight is about $80-$100. No Seville.
Also note Ireland is a NO GO. So it's essentially just a full month sans Ireland. So as we stand, saying SKIP Prague and Vienna,
So net net:
Paris
Amsterdam
Berlin
Prague Y/N?
Budapest
Barcelona
Lisbon
Obviously going to revist time allocations and cost here, but let's say 6 cities total,potentially 7 with Prague. On the low end of each say 3 days, prior to heading to Barcelona that's 12-15 days with/without Prague. High end = 16-20 days.
Assuming the high end (for sake of being conservative) + 5 days factored in for travel time (liberal, conservative?) that leaves a good 5 days for Barcelona/Lisbon.
Seems feasible?
Any thoughts?
Paris (3-4 days, a friend suggested come back here and devote proper time when the weather is ideal, take a few days just to hit some museums)
Amsterdam (3-4 days)
Berlin (3-4 days)
Prague? - Is this worth it? Hearing a SKIP from friends here. Getting mixed feedback. Some say yes, some say no.
(Was told NO on Vienna and just skip)
Budapest (3-4 days)
Fly from Budapest to Barcelona - Spend a good chunk of time over here, 3-4 days in Barcelona, one 24-48 period in Lisbon. Flight is about $80-$100. No Seville.
Also note Ireland is a NO GO. So it's essentially just a full month sans Ireland. So as we stand, saying SKIP Prague and Vienna,
So net net:
Paris
Amsterdam
Berlin
Prague Y/N?
Budapest
Barcelona
Lisbon
Obviously going to revist time allocations and cost here, but let's say 6 cities total,potentially 7 with Prague. On the low end of each say 3 days, prior to heading to Barcelona that's 12-15 days with/without Prague. High end = 16-20 days.
Assuming the high end (for sake of being conservative) + 5 days factored in for travel time (liberal, conservative?) that leaves a good 5 days for Barcelona/Lisbon.
Seems feasible?
Any thoughts?
Sep 15th, 2016, 07:15 AM
#36
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Ok, what about with some more allotted time to Lisbon? It's popped up like 1,000 times on these "ideal places to visit in November" kind of sites, either in content or commentary. Not married to it... but just a thought.
Sep 15th, 2016, 08:03 AM
#39
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It kind of feels like you are choosing places based on what others have told you or because you have read it is a good place to go. I would approach this another way. What are your interests and what do you want to see and get out of your trip? Take the answers to that and plan your time around places that meet those objectives.
Maybe you like wine - Beaujolais Nouveau is released during a festive in Beaujolais in Nov.
This is just an example, but rather than following others ideas, I would plan my own custom trip.
Lisbon is a lovely city, we visited in Dec. But if you aren't married to it, why spend the time and money to visit?
Maybe you like wine - Beaujolais Nouveau is released during a festive in Beaujolais in Nov.
This is just an example, but rather than following others ideas, I would plan my own custom trip.
Lisbon is a lovely city, we visited in Dec. But if you aren't married to it, why spend the time and money to visit?
Sep 15th, 2016, 10:10 AM
#40
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The advantage of going through Istanbul is price, but you need to realize that Istanbul is on the far eastern edge of Europe, a 3-1/2 hour flight from Amsterdam. That means you're losing 7 hours plus whatever time you lose on the layover just to get to your initial destination. That's a whole day of your 30 days. Is it worth losing a day of your trip to save $300? Only you can decide that.
Other connections through Istanbul within Europe would similarly add hours onto any trip.
Other connections through Istanbul within Europe would similarly add hours onto any trip.
