Europe in next spring

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Oct 27th, 1998, 10:48 AM

Cindy

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Europe in next spring

My husband and I are planning to travel Spain, France, Switzerland and Italy in next April or May. Since we have never been in Europe, any tip is welcome. We're planning low budget trip.

Oct 27th, 1998, 12:15 PM

BOB THE NAVIGATOR

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Cindy, I hope you have planned a month trip to hit all of these.Ironically, my wife and I will be spending 8 weeks in some of these same areas next April/May. You will have to be more specific to get good input. I suggest you plan, think, and talk in Regions, not countries. A nice trip might include Catalonia, Provence, Cote d' Azur, Liguria, Tuscany and Ticino---that would let people know what to say to you. Also, do you plan to drive or train---that will make all the difference. Contact me directly if you want some more planning help. The major mistake most people make on their first trip is to try to do too much. Get a map and THINK BY CONTIGIOUS REGIONS.

Oct 28th, 1998, 05:25 AM

Cindy

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Thanks for your advice, Bob. We're planning 2 week trip for these countries. Since we don't take enough time off, we're thinking to visit just one city for each country. So far we have thought about Barcelona, Paris, Rome and Chamony(?) - not sure about spelling. I'd appreciate if anybody can give me a tip about those places.

Oct 28th, 1998, 06:42 AM

BOB THE NAVIGATOR

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Cindy, You really need to get a map and figure out time and distance. That trip would take you 4 days of just driving, unless you flew between these cities which is very expensive in Europe. The mode of transport is the key. If by train, you can do Paris, Nice, Florence [better than Rome],Lugano, and Luzern. If driving, you could start in either Nice or Barcelona and do a nice loop itinerary back to Nice to drop the car and then train to Paris. However, I would suggest a tighter itinerary that would not include either Paris or Rome. Europe is not about big cities. That time of year you want to do the Riviera, maybe Provence, probably Tuscany, the Italian Lakes for sure, and then the Alps. That is doable by car or train.

Oct 28th, 1998, 07:04 AM

Raeona

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Four countries in two weeks is really pushing it. You'll come home with the trip in a blur! Given the cost and time to get over there, I understand your zeal to see as much as you can; but you really will have a much more enjoyable, more memorable trip if you slow down and focus in on fewer places. Bob has really good advice - but I would quibble about kissing off both Paris and Rome. I'd vote for at least a couple of days in Paris, but definitely NOT confining your trip to all cities. You get a wonderful "flavor" of a country when you hit the countryside and meet the people,

Oct 28th, 1998, 09:04 AM

Christina

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I'd guess the place you couldn't spell was Chamonix? This isn't in Switzerland, it's in France. I would really re-think including this place in a first-time trip to Europe, especially one of only 2 weeks which is supposed to be a budget trip. It is an expensive ski resort in the French alps. You didn't say how you expected to get between these points, but Chamonix isn't that convenient to get to, either, so would take a lot of time out of your schedule. I guess if you are really into climbing mountains, hiking or skiing, there might be some reason to go there, but I'd still omit it from such a short trip.

Oct 28th, 1998, 11:39 AM

elaine

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I'll bet you started out thinking that two weeks was a luxuriously long European vacation! You really need to take all this well-meaning advice and think about what your priorities are and what experiences you want to have. And whether you're driving or taking the train, you need to subtract the transportation time from your sightseeing time. Except for the train ride from Switz. to Northern Italy which passes through the Alps and is supposed to be beautifully scenic, the more time you spend on the train the less time you'll have to sightsee or just experience the countries. Driving lets you explore, but you have to decide if you want to explore along the way, or do you want to get to a specific destination town or city and sightsee? And driving in unfamiliar territory, and especially in unfamiliar towns and cities, can be very stressful. You might want to consider a group tour which will get you from one place to another, but it does limit your freedom, and it is unlikely to include Chamonix. It's not a terrible idea for a first trip, unless you really hate the concept. If you have personal reasons for including Chamonix, work with a travel agent. Otherwise, skip it. You can easily travel by overnight train from Barcelona to Paris or to Nice. I would never advise anyone to skip Paris, it's one of my favorite cities. If you search this site for previous topics on Paris, you'll get lots of suggestions. From Paris (or Nice) you'd have to figure out how to get to Chamonix, I have no idea what the options are. From Chamonix to Switzerland is not far, although if you'll be driving it will take some time. Otherwise, take a fast train (TGV) from Paris to Geneva, or fly from Paris to Zurich and then train through the Alps to Italy. You will have to change trains in Italy, depending on where you want to go. I have not been to Rome, but that's because from what I read I preferred to go to other places in Italy. If you love Renaissance art, and lots of it, I highly recommend Florence. It is also a small charming city with still some medieval flavor. However, I FELL in love with Venice, it is like nowhere else on earth. Although it too contains wonderful art, it is a work of improbable art in itself, even if you don't go to any museums. Or if you don't want all cities, go from Switzerland to one of the Italian Lakes like Como and relax for your last few days. You'll need to fly home from Milan or Rome, unless you want to fly or train it all the way back to Barcelona or Paris. Overwhelming isn't it?! Do some reading and narrow it down, and then consult the Forum again. Good luck.

Oct 28th, 1998, 11:40 AM

elaine

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Oct 29th, 1998, 07:08 AM

Darla

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We did 21 days in Europe this summer by train. Excellent and inexpensive way to get around. In Italy, about 2 days is all you need in Venice and Florence. Give yourself 3 days in Rome, it is a great city. Look for the pensionnes w/ private baths and your set. Fax reservation requests if you know your dates in each each country, it works well. Be ready to get up early and stay up late- you'll have a blast.

Oct 30th, 1998, 02:37 PM

#10

Ben Haines

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As others have said, your plan is too crowded. But you can avoid using sightseeing time on rail trips (and cut hotel bills) if you use night trains. I start with a map: you get least mileage if you travel Paris, Barcelona, Chamonix, Rome or vice versa. The reference library of a city near you may have the Thomas Cook European timetable, which has the times you need. I suggest these. Table 47. Paris Austerlitz 2047, by Joan Miro Hotel Train. Sleepers and restaurant car. Arrive Barcelona Sants 0900. You can cut the cost and add an hour if you leave Paris 2144 or 2202, change at the Pyrenees, and arrive 1115: the night train has couchettes. Tables 81, 368, 367 and 572. . Barcelona Sants 2010 or 2038, Pau Casals Hotel Train, not daily, Sleepers, no catering. Geneva 0538 (sorry). Geneva Eux Vives 0606 (not Sat or Sun), Annemasse 0616 change to 0627 (not Suns), La Roche sur Furon change and breakfast 0648 to 0735, St Gervais 0823 to 0905, Chamonix 0938. You can cut costs and get a longer night if you leave Barcelona Sants 1920 (not Fri or Sat), change and sup at the Pyrenees 2200 to 2324, take a couchette on the Hispana Express, and arrive Culoz 0724. Leave 0806 (not Sat or Sun), Aix les Bains change 0823 to 0829. St Gervais change 1055 to 1120, Mont Blanc Express with observation car, Chamonix 1152. Then on to Rome. Chamonix 1339. St Gervais change 1415 to 1427. Lyon Part Dieu change 1812 to1828, buffet car, Torino Porta Nuova 2210. Sup. Torino Porta Nuova 2305, sleepers and couchettes, no catering. Rome Termini 0700. Table 44. Rome Termini 1905, Palatino Express. Sleepers, couchettes, and expensive restaurant car. Paris Gare de Lyon 0910. This is the anticlockwise route: clearly, you can make the same trip clockwise. Basic fares are in http://www.railpass.com, under "point to point". To them you need to add supplements of 20 to 25 US dollars for a couchette berth in a 6-berth cabin, and of 50 to 60 dollars for a sleeper in a 2-berth or 3-berth cabin. Please write again if I can help further. Welcome to Europe. Ben Haines, London.