Eurail pass vs. ticket - sanity check
Feb 17th, 2015, 06:23 PM
#21
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Yeah kybourbon, I was wondering why the prices seemed higher on italiarail.com. I saw it referred to as an easier alternative to trenitalia, but never caught that it is a reseller. It appears that I was using trenitalia to figure prices after all, when I look at my spreadsheet.
Thanks for the Thello info.
Thanks for the Thello info.
Feb 18th, 2015, 08:05 AM
#22
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Italiarail sells tickets for the exact same price as Trenitalia, as you can see if you change the currency to euros. If you use a different currency, they're a little conservative on the exchange rate, but the price is otherwise the same. If the prices seem higher, it's probably exchange rate shock.
I believe the same is true of Capitainetrain. However, in order to check that, I'd have to create an account, which I won't do.
The full undiscounted prices in March probably won't be much different from the full undiscounted prices after the update in mid-June. However, no one can guarantee that. Another thing is that already in March, many discounted fares are no longer available. You'd be better to check a date in early June, before the schedule change on the 13th.
I believe the same is true of Capitainetrain. However, in order to check that, I'd have to create an account, which I won't do.
The full undiscounted prices in March probably won't be much different from the full undiscounted prices after the update in mid-June. However, no one can guarantee that. Another thing is that already in March, many discounted fares are no longer available. You'd be better to check a date in early June, before the schedule change on the 13th.
Feb 18th, 2015, 08:11 AM
#23
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www.raileurope.com sells some of the TrenoItalia tickets at the same low price they offer - as low as Trenitalia - if you can't get the other sites to work. they also sell trentialia.com tickets but usually at a mark up.
Feb 18th, 2015, 09:07 AM
#24
>>>Italiarail sells tickets for the exact same price as Trenitalia,<<<
No. Italiarail converts the euro to dollar and charges a higher exchange rate than I would pay buying on Trenitalia in euro and using my own credit card's exchange. That's one of the ways they make money plus the fee they tack on (or the membership they are selling to avoid the processing fee). There is nothing to process as you print your own tickets at home or at the station. Ditto for Raileurope.
Prices for the exact same regional train Monday from Florence/Pisa.
Raileurope $10
No. Italiarail converts the euro to dollar and charges a higher exchange rate than I would pay buying on Trenitalia in euro and using my own credit card's exchange. That's one of the ways they make money plus the fee they tack on (or the membership they are selling to avoid the processing fee). There is nothing to process as you print your own tickets at home or at the station. Ditto for Raileurope.
Prices for the exact same regional train Monday from Florence/Pisa.
Raileurope $10
Feb 18th, 2015, 09:18 AM
#25
Raileurope $10 + processing fee of $7.95
Italiarail $10 + processing fee of $5 or membership fee of $19.
Trenitalia 8€ (todays exchange rate on Oanda converts that to $9.10). My credit card tacks on a 1% fee which brings it to $9.19
Raileurope $17.95
Italiarail $15 or $29 (depends which fee you choose)
Trenitalia $9.19
These are just cheap tickets. The difference is more for higher priced tickets (like for the fast trains) if you bother to look at them and crunch the numbers.
Italiarail $10 + processing fee of $5 or membership fee of $19.
Trenitalia 8€ (todays exchange rate on Oanda converts that to $9.10). My credit card tacks on a 1% fee which brings it to $9.19
Raileurope $17.95
Italiarail $15 or $29 (depends which fee you choose)
Trenitalia $9.19
These are just cheap tickets. The difference is more for higher priced tickets (like for the fast trains) if you bother to look at them and crunch the numbers.
Feb 18th, 2015, 11:33 AM
#26
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The RE charge of $7.98 applies per order I believe not per ticket so if doing a return the handling per ticket would be about $ 2 - just to correct what kybourbon said or seems to imply that it was per ticket - it's per order I think.
But there is absolutely no reason to pre-purchase regional train tickets - there are no seat reservations possible so it's come one come all anyway - buy your tickets once there from machines or ticket windows. Many c cards tack on 3 % - RE of course would not. And again Raileurope I noticed sells ItaloTreno tickets at about what ItaloTreno's site would - not every train but many at very low rates.
http://www.italotreno.it/EN/Pages/default.aspx - if going on main lines like between Venice, Florence, Rome, Naples check this site too!
But there is absolutely no reason to pre-purchase regional train tickets - there are no seat reservations possible so it's come one come all anyway - buy your tickets once there from machines or ticket windows. Many c cards tack on 3 % - RE of course would not. And again Raileurope I noticed sells ItaloTreno tickets at about what ItaloTreno's site would - not every train but many at very low rates.
http://www.italotreno.it/EN/Pages/default.aspx - if going on main lines like between Venice, Florence, Rome, Naples check this site too!
Feb 18th, 2015, 12:06 PM
#27
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I have always read not to buy tickets at RailEurope because they charge more.
Captaintrain.com is always recommended instead
https://www.capitainetrain.com/en>
www.capitainetrain.com only sells tickets involving French trains however.
Captaintrain.com is always recommended instead
https://www.capitainetrain.com/en>
www.capitainetrain.com only sells tickets involving French trains however.
Feb 19th, 2015, 11:29 AM
#30
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FMT - does capitainetrain sell foreign train tickets at about the same price as the national railways in those countries do or do they mark them up - is it better to use www.bahn.de for German trains or can I get the same fares on capitainetrain.com?
Just curious for my knowledge to advise others, etc.
Cheers,
Palenque
Just curious for my knowledge to advise others, etc.
Cheers,
Palenque
Feb 19th, 2015, 12:21 PM
#31
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A very cheap regional ticket, as Palenq says, was not a good example for kybourbon to choose, because it's never advisable to buy regional tickets online. Since they're so cheap, it make the processing charge look enormous as a percentage of the total expenditure, so it's not really a fair comparison, and I'm sure kybourbon, who is so knowledgeable about Italian trains, knows that.
I just did a trial purchase on Italiarail for two tickets, one from Rome to Venice, and one from Venice to Milan. I specified that I wanted to be charged in euros, and this avoids any unfavorable exchange rates. (Your credit card will have better exchange rates.)
The price was exactly what it was on the Trenitalia site for all of the routes I looked at.
There was a €3.50 processing fee, but this was once per purchase, not per ticket. There is no fee for delivery; you print out the electronic tickets at home.
There is one other possible detriment to buying Italiarail tickets: there are fees for changes of full-price tickets that you don't incur if you buy your tickets on Trenitalia. However, the only good reason for buying tickets online is to get the discounted prices, and these discounted tickets can't be changed anyway. If you're buying full-price tickets, it's best to buy them when you get to Italy.
If you buy on Trenitalia, you will save the €3.50 processing fee. However, some people do have difficulty with Trenitalia, and Italiarail has several advantages. The main one is that on Italiarail you can use the English versions of names such as Naples, Rome, Florence, Venice, and Milan. The other is that Italiarail automatically sets the time of day at 7 AM, while Trenitalia sets it to the time on your computer. This means that if you're looking for tickets for the 28th of February at 11 PM, and don't specify the time of day, Trenitalia, not finding any tickets at that late hour, will roll the date over to the 1st of March. This catches up many people, who don't notice that the date has changed.
If you're comfortable with Trenitalia, which I myself find fairly easy to use, even easier than the famous www.bahn.de , you'll save the €3.50 processing fee, but nothing more.
If you want to buy tickets on Italiarail, be sure to change the currency to euros. Second, try to buy all your tickets on one transaction, so that the processing charge of €3.50 is incurred only once. Then remove the "Premium membership" option on the final shopping cart page by clicking on the trash can to the left of the item.
Before using either site, take the time to figure out which stations you want to use in each city. For example, in Venice, if you select "any station", you'll sometimes be shown some trains that stop only at Mestre, which is probably not the station you want.
I just did a trial purchase on Italiarail for two tickets, one from Rome to Venice, and one from Venice to Milan. I specified that I wanted to be charged in euros, and this avoids any unfavorable exchange rates. (Your credit card will have better exchange rates.)
The price was exactly what it was on the Trenitalia site for all of the routes I looked at.
There was a €3.50 processing fee, but this was once per purchase, not per ticket. There is no fee for delivery; you print out the electronic tickets at home.
There is one other possible detriment to buying Italiarail tickets: there are fees for changes of full-price tickets that you don't incur if you buy your tickets on Trenitalia. However, the only good reason for buying tickets online is to get the discounted prices, and these discounted tickets can't be changed anyway. If you're buying full-price tickets, it's best to buy them when you get to Italy.
If you buy on Trenitalia, you will save the €3.50 processing fee. However, some people do have difficulty with Trenitalia, and Italiarail has several advantages. The main one is that on Italiarail you can use the English versions of names such as Naples, Rome, Florence, Venice, and Milan. The other is that Italiarail automatically sets the time of day at 7 AM, while Trenitalia sets it to the time on your computer. This means that if you're looking for tickets for the 28th of February at 11 PM, and don't specify the time of day, Trenitalia, not finding any tickets at that late hour, will roll the date over to the 1st of March. This catches up many people, who don't notice that the date has changed.
If you're comfortable with Trenitalia, which I myself find fairly easy to use, even easier than the famous www.bahn.de , you'll save the €3.50 processing fee, but nothing more.
If you want to buy tickets on Italiarail, be sure to change the currency to euros. Second, try to buy all your tickets on one transaction, so that the processing charge of €3.50 is incurred only once. Then remove the "Premium membership" option on the final shopping cart page by clicking on the trash can to the left of the item.
Before using either site, take the time to figure out which stations you want to use in each city. For example, in Venice, if you select "any station", you'll sometimes be shown some trains that stop only at Mestre, which is probably not the station you want.
Feb 19th, 2015, 01:30 PM
#32
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The Capitainetrain website just claims to sell tickets of the sncf.fr and the bahn.de . I'd do a comparison as I did for Italiarail, except that I think it's a little obnoxious of them to require that I create an account to see the price of a ticket.
Feb 19th, 2015, 03:54 PM
#33
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PalenQ - I know capitainetrain has the same ticket prices as SNCF for France but I know nothing about their prices for other countries. If you go to their homepage you'll see that they say they are an authorized distributor for all of the train companies I mentioned. I would always go to whatever national rail site I needed but capitainetrain generally has, at least for France, a more English friendly format and less difficulty in accepting foreign credit cards than SNCF (based on what I see other travelers report).
Feb 20th, 2015, 02:08 AM
#34
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I've had no problems with SNCF, but I would have been using an Italian credit card, which maybe isn't so foreign. Also, I can read French well enough to manage on their French site.
I also have no problems with Trenitalia. However, I know that a lot of people do, and I think the €3.50 service charge is not unreasonable if you're having trouble with the Trenitalia site.
French Mystique, could you give me a link to the Capitainetrain web page that lists all those train companies? I found only a page that said they had access to the databases of SNCF.fr and BAHN.de .
I also have no problems with Trenitalia. However, I know that a lot of people do, and I think the €3.50 service charge is not unreasonable if you're having trouble with the Trenitalia site.
French Mystique, could you give me a link to the Capitainetrain web page that lists all those train companies? I found only a page that said they had access to the databases of SNCF.fr and BAHN.de .
Feb 20th, 2015, 06:10 AM
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Just go to the homepage, www.capitainetrain.com, and look underneath the photo/image of the TGV train at the top of the page and you'll see it says they are authorized distributors for all the train companies I mentioned. It's usually Americans (and possibly Australians) who report having their credit cards rejected by SNCF and they often report not having the same problems with capitainetrain.
Feb 20th, 2015, 10:09 AM
#36
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Renfe (Spanish) and Deutsche Bahn (German) are the only national railways, other than SNCF, who are on that list on the main page of CapitaineTrain. Both of them have had ticketing collaboration with the SNCF for some time.
Trenitalia is not on that Capitainetrain page, although Italo (a new Italian train company that runs only on a few routes) is. Italo is more than 50% owned by the SNCF, and so are most (all?) of the others mentioned. I'm not sure about Thello. At one time they were at least partially owned by SNCF, but maybe no longer. Their headquarters are in Paris, though.
At any rate, between CapitaineTrain and Italiarail, you would have easy access to a good deal of Europe's train system.
Do you know French Mystique, what markups or fees are added to CapitaineTrain tickets, compared to the prices of tickets bought on SNCF?
Trenitalia is not on that Capitainetrain page, although Italo (a new Italian train company that runs only on a few routes) is. Italo is more than 50% owned by the SNCF, and so are most (all?) of the others mentioned. I'm not sure about Thello. At one time they were at least partially owned by SNCF, but maybe no longer. Their headquarters are in Paris, though.
At any rate, between CapitaineTrain and Italiarail, you would have easy access to a good deal of Europe's train system.
Do you know French Mystique, what markups or fees are added to CapitaineTrain tickets, compared to the prices of tickets bought on SNCF?
Feb 20th, 2015, 05:22 PM
#37
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bvlenci - I don't know what's showing when you go to the capitainetrain homepage but every rail company I mentioned is listed there and next to the logos for all of the companies it says "Authorised Distributor". Scroll about 1/4 of the way down and look under that little city image with the TGV trains moving back and forth. It's right there. You'll see the logos for every company I mentioned.
I haven't subscribed to the capitainetrain website (and don't plan on doing so) but every person I have heard from on the travel forums who has compared SNCF to capitainetrain prices and purchased on-line tickets says they are exactly the same (no mark-up).
I haven't subscribed to the capitainetrain website (and don't plan on doing so) but every person I have heard from on the travel forums who has compared SNCF to capitainetrain prices and purchased on-line tickets says they are exactly the same (no mark-up).
Feb 21st, 2015, 01:27 AM
#38
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I saw all of those companies except Trenitalia, but, as I said above, they are all partly or wholly owned by SNCF except for Renfe and Deutsche Bahn, who are either partners or close collaborators of SNCF.
On the CapitaineTrain page, the Renfe logo actually says Renfe SNCF. I don't know what that means, but I think it may be that Renfe SNCF refers only to the partnership that operates trains between France and Spain.
http://special-offers.en.voyages-snc...cket-barcelona
I've looked again, and I still don't see Trenitalia, which you listed above. Are they hiding it from me since they can see I'm located in Italy?
On the CapitaineTrain page, the Renfe logo actually says Renfe SNCF. I don't know what that means, but I think it may be that Renfe SNCF refers only to the partnership that operates trains between France and Spain.
http://special-offers.en.voyages-snc...cket-barcelona
I've looked again, and I still don't see Trenitalia, which you listed above. Are they hiding it from me since they can see I'm located in Italy?
Feb 21st, 2015, 05:37 AM
#39
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A very cheap regional ticket, as Palenq says, was not a good example for kybourbon to choose, because it's never advisable to buy regional tickets online. Since they're so cheap, it make the processing charge look enormous as a percentage of the total expenditure, so it's not really a fair comparison, and I'm sure kybourbon, who is so knowledgeable about Italian trains, knows that.>
Plus adding on a $7.98 fee for the ticket which leads one to assume that every ticket has the fee tacked on - it is per order and that should also be clear - 2 people 4 tickets each would still in total have a handling fee of $7.98. Anything to make RailEurope look worse than they are! 8 tickets the handling fee is $1 per ticket not $7.98 per ticket as she claims.
Plus adding on a $7.98 fee for the ticket which leads one to assume that every ticket has the fee tacked on - it is per order and that should also be clear - 2 people 4 tickets each would still in total have a handling fee of $7.98. Anything to make RailEurope look worse than they are! 8 tickets the handling fee is $1 per ticket not $7.98 per ticket as she claims.
Feb 21st, 2015, 07:05 AM
#40
>>>A very cheap regional ticket, as Palenq says, was not a good example for kybourbon to choose, because it's never advisable to buy regional tickets online.<<<
Perhaps, but just a way to point out that Italiarail does mark up by converting at a higher exchange rate than your own credit card would. It also seems the OP is going to be doing day trips that will be regional trains and I agree they should not be bought in advance online at all. Since the OP wanted to compare real ticket prices vs pass costs, the best way is to use the real prices, not resellers that convert and add fees.
I don't get your point of switching to euro on Italiarail as I don't see that as an option at all (not listed as an option when I'm on their site). It states tickets are charged in $. Perhaps you were talking about the Capitainetrain site? Or do you have a link for the version of Italiarail you are using?
>>>And again Raileurope I noticed sells ItaloTreno tickets at about what ItaloTreno's site would - not every train but many at very low rates.<<<
RE does sell Italo tickets, but not at the same price as Italo. When checking the same fast train in March for Florence/Venice, RE price is $34 + $7.95 processing fee (really just a fee as you print these tickets yourself at home). The same exact train on Italo Treno is 25€. At today's exchange rate that would be $28.46. Add your credit card 1% and the total is $28.74. You pay either:
RE $41.95
or
Italo $28.46
While it's true that the processing fees are per order, the OP wanted to compare the actual train ticket prices to evaluate pass costs. Throwing in various resellers that mark up in their own ways doesn't let you accurately compare. You need to use the actual train companies.
I've read in the past on Italo that they required secured Mastercards (SecureCode) or Visa (Verified By Visa), but doing a walk-thru, that doesn't seem to be the case when it asks for your card info.
>>>The other is that Italiarail automatically sets the time of day at 7 AM, while Trenitalia sets it to the time on your computer. This means that if you're looking for tickets for the 28th of February at 11 PM, and don't specify the time of day, Trenitalia, not finding any tickets at that late hour, will roll the date over to the 1st of March.<<<
Several Fodorites have reported the same issue buying on Italiarail with no luck resolving it with Italiarail. That was last year so it's possible they have changed their website to function better.
To accurately compare, you need to know your itinerary, what kinds of trains, prices from the actual train websites, add it all together and get a per day cost. Then compare it to the pass per day cost after you've added in all the supplements and mandatory reservation fees to the pass price.
Perhaps, but just a way to point out that Italiarail does mark up by converting at a higher exchange rate than your own credit card would. It also seems the OP is going to be doing day trips that will be regional trains and I agree they should not be bought in advance online at all. Since the OP wanted to compare real ticket prices vs pass costs, the best way is to use the real prices, not resellers that convert and add fees.
I don't get your point of switching to euro on Italiarail as I don't see that as an option at all (not listed as an option when I'm on their site). It states tickets are charged in $. Perhaps you were talking about the Capitainetrain site? Or do you have a link for the version of Italiarail you are using?
>>>And again Raileurope I noticed sells ItaloTreno tickets at about what ItaloTreno's site would - not every train but many at very low rates.<<<
RE does sell Italo tickets, but not at the same price as Italo. When checking the same fast train in March for Florence/Venice, RE price is $34 + $7.95 processing fee (really just a fee as you print these tickets yourself at home). The same exact train on Italo Treno is 25€. At today's exchange rate that would be $28.46. Add your credit card 1% and the total is $28.74. You pay either:
RE $41.95
or
Italo $28.46
While it's true that the processing fees are per order, the OP wanted to compare the actual train ticket prices to evaluate pass costs. Throwing in various resellers that mark up in their own ways doesn't let you accurately compare. You need to use the actual train companies.
I've read in the past on Italo that they required secured Mastercards (SecureCode) or Visa (Verified By Visa), but doing a walk-thru, that doesn't seem to be the case when it asks for your card info.
>>>The other is that Italiarail automatically sets the time of day at 7 AM, while Trenitalia sets it to the time on your computer. This means that if you're looking for tickets for the 28th of February at 11 PM, and don't specify the time of day, Trenitalia, not finding any tickets at that late hour, will roll the date over to the 1st of March.<<<
Several Fodorites have reported the same issue buying on Italiarail with no luck resolving it with Italiarail. That was last year so it's possible they have changed their website to function better.
To accurately compare, you need to know your itinerary, what kinds of trains, prices from the actual train websites, add it all together and get a per day cost. Then compare it to the pass per day cost after you've added in all the supplements and mandatory reservation fees to the pass price.
