dracularsa

Hi Everyone,

Sorry I know this is yet another Trenitalia question but as you would see from my post I did do extensive research before posting!!!! And that is partly the reason for the long post but I would really appreciate if a Eurorail expert can just confirm my calculations - thanks so much in advance

Scenario: My brother (29) and his wife (26) are traveling to Paris and Italy in August 2010 and I am trying to help them figuring out whether the Eurail pass is worth their while. They are both non-EU

Itinerary: Paris to Venice (over night) 19/08/10
Venice 3 nights
Venice to Pisa 22/08/2010
Pisa 5 nights - here they are going to rent a car to tour Tuscany so some time
is going to be spent in Chianti etc but there will not be any train rides
Pisa to Rome 27/08/2010
Rome 2 nights
Rome to Paris (over night) 29/08/10

Now as I can see on the railsaver web site the best pass would be the Eurail France -Italy Flexi pass for 4 days and as they are 2 in their group they can prob. qualify for the saver which will cost $272 or roughly E204.

According to a previous post there are supplement charges for Eurail holders and I quote:
HERE IS A RUNDOWN OF MANDATED/OPTIONAL RESERVATION/SUPPLEMENT FEES FOR RAILPASS HOLDERS (From the Eurail Committee)

Reservation fees domestic trains

This page shows an overview of reservation fees for the most common domestic trains (trains that do not cross borders with other countries). For some trains reservation is compulsory, for others it is optional.

Advance booking is recommended in high-season. Some trains (Thalys, TGV) have a limited number of seats for Eurail travelers.

Reservation fees in France

■TGV
1st and 2nd class: € 3
Reservation compulsory.
■TEOZ
1st and 2nd class: € 3
Reservation compulsory.
■Corail / Corail IC
1st and 2nd class: € 1,50
Reservation recommended.


Reservation fees in Italy

■Artesia de Jour (domestic journeys)
Reservation compulsory
1st and 2nd class: € 5

■AV / AV Fast
Reservation compulsory
2nd class: € 10 / 1st class: € 10
Free access to Club Eurostar with a 1st class ticket

■Cisalpino (domestic journeys)
Reservation compulsory
2nd class: € 3 / € 15 / 1st class: € 3 / € 15
price depends on the route

■EuroCity/IC Internazionali (domestic)
Reservation possible, but not required
2nd class: € 3 / 1st class: € 3

■Eurostar Italia / Eurostar Italia Fast
Reservation compulsory
2nd class: € 10 / 1st class: € 10

■EurostarCity Italia
Reservation compulsory
2nd class: € 10 / 1st class: € 10

■InterCity; ICN, EXP (only seats)
Reservation possible, but not required
2nd class: € 3 / 1st class: € 3

If I put in dummy dates for the above Itinerary on Trenitalia - as it looks like I would only be able to book the Artesia 3 months in advance and all the other trains 1 month in advance I get the following fares ( CAN SOMEONE PLEASE CONFIRM THAT THIS IS THE EARLIEST I WOULD BE ABLE TO BOOK????)

Paris to Venice - Artesia - Go Fare for double seat compartment E140 per person
( ARE THERE EVER DISCOUNTS AVAILABLE ON THESE FARES AS THERE ARE NO AMICA/MENO30 OPTIONS FOR 19/07/2010????) According to the above quote Eurail pass holders pay a supplement of 5 euros for the Artesia. Would that be for all pass holders or just for 1ste class Eurail passes?? So if I have a 2de class Eurail pass I only need to pay the booking fee of 5 Euros for the Artesia - nothing else??? That doesn't seem right!!!

Venice to Pisa - Eurostar AV - Base fare 2de class - E47,70 per person. Eurail supplement 10 Euros

Pisa to Rome - Eurostar City - Meno30 fare 2de class - E28.00 Eurail supplement 10 Euros

Rome to Paris - Artesia - as above - E140 per person.

So if my calculations are right buying from point to point will cost E355,70 per person and the Eurail pass with the supplements will be E234 per person????!!!!! What am I overlooking?

GeoffHamer

The supplement of €5 would be for a seat on a day train. You pay a lot more for sleeping accommodation on the overnight train. The term "double seat compartment" is a very poor translation from Italian: there are no compartments with two seats, and this actually refers to a two-berth sleeping compartment. The fare of €140 is a discount fare. The supplement for a pass-holder would be more like €80. There is a lot more information on these overnight trains from the Man in Seat 61 (www.seat61.com/Italy.htm).

dracularsa

Thanks GeoffHamer

I thought that was to good to be true!!! They would like a 2 berth sleeping compartment - so thanks.

Can you maybe provide a link for the E80 supplement

Thanks

kybourbon

You can not book the Artesia on Trenitalia for several reasons. The first is Trenitalia will not process US credit cards. The second is if you did by some fluke get it to take your payment, Trenitalia requires pickup of the ticket in Italy so you would have no way to pick up the ticket.

Your fees for some things are not correct. If you want a bed on the overnight train you will pay much more than 5€. A railpass only gives you a right to travel on a train, not a seat which is mandatory on may trains. If the overnight train has seats (many don't), you would pay the seat supplement (possibly 5€ or more depending on train). If you want something more than a seat, then you have to pay the more expensive couchette or private cabin supplement which can be quite hefty (could be as much as 100€ per person).

You need to look at budget flights and perhaps a new itinerary. It appears the flights in and out of Paris are already booked or I would advise flying into Paris and home from Rome which would be easiest/cheapest.

You can take a budget flight from Paris Orly (which is easiest/closest to get to from central Paris) to Venice on Easy Jet (I'm seeing prices for as cheap as 25€, but haven't looked at your exact dates). You could also fly EasyJet from Paris Orly to Rome's Ciampino airport. They also fly to Pisa.

I would rearrange the itinerary to:

Fly from Paris Orly to Rome on Easy Jet.
Visit Rome (two nights in Rome is simply not enough), train to Orvieto or Chiusi(7-13€) and pick up car to start Tuscany portion of trip.
Visit Tuscany, dropping car in Pisa (do not spend 5 nights in Pisa, stay somewhere in Chianti area or south). It's not practical to try to visit much of Tuscany from Pisa.

Train from Pisa to Florence 5.70€ (don't they plan to visit Florence?). This is a R train so no seat reservations possible.

Train from Florence to Venice 44€ (includes seat).

Fly Easy Jet back to Paris.

I think you can fly/train for about 150-200€. Ticket prices you see on Trenitaila includes a seat unless it's an R train.

There are some sale fares available for the Artesia that require advance purchase, but flying works best for your limited time and financially.

kybourbon

>>>Venice to Pisa - Eurostar AV - Base fare 2de class - E47,70 per person. Eurail supplement 10 Euros
Pisa to Rome - Eurostar City - Meno30 fare 2de class - E28.00 Eurail supplement 10 Euros

TimS

I assume that your brother and his wife are flying roundtrip from their home to Paris and back. If they haven't already bought their plane tickets, they should consider flying open jaw (multi-city): home-Paris and Rome-home. This will save them the time and expense of backtracking to Paris.

If they book the Paris-Venice night train ASAP (up to 92 days in advance) at www.tgv-europe.com, they can get a discount Depart Plus fare of €140/person for beds in a two-person sleeper. To keep the site in English and to avoid beng bumped to the Rail Europe site which doesn't offer discount fares, they should choose Great Britain as their country of residence. They can pick up their tickets at any SNCF station or boutique in France. If they choose to return to Paris and plan to take the Rome-Paris night train, they should book their tickets on tgv-europe.com in the same way as above and pick up their tickets in Paris.

Yes, the 2nd class fare for Venezia Santa Lucia to Pisa Centrale is €47.70.

The 2nd class fare for Piss Centrale-Roma Termini is €42.00 on an ESFast train, €39.50 on an ESCity train, €29.00 on an IC train, and €17.85 on a Regionale train.

TimS

If they have 1st class railpasses, the supplements for beds in a two-person sleeper will be $107 US/person + a shipping fee if they buy them from Rail Europe.

dracularsa

Thanks Kybourbon and Tims,

You cleared up my question about the supplement for the artesia with rail passes - thanks so much for the links. If I understand the
http://www.artesia.eu/english/fare-train-travel.php link right - the price for the artesia with a pass is either E75/E120 which doesn't make the rail pass worth while.

They are not form the USA and I previously managed to book train tickets on the Trenitalia website, with email ticketing, using my Irish credit card so hope the process will be so easy booking the artesia tickets as well.

They unfortunately do have return tickets home via Paris - so they will have to do some back tracking and there is no direct flights back home out of Rome. As "home" don't have an extensive railway network they would really want to do this itinerary using trains.

Thanks so much for you Fodor expertise!!!!

kybourbon

If you can get a credit card to work, then you can book some discounts. The Artesia 2 compartment sleeper without a pass, but advance purchase discount is 140€ per person (which is why we suggest flying at much less).

The other discounts on Trenitalia may only show up if you are booking certain cities or types of trains. The meno 30 or 15 is only good for these trains:
Express, ICN, IC, ES* City, ES*, ES* Fast, AV and AV Fast, and in the couchette or WL services

If you are trying to book a train from Venice to Pisa, it requires a change of trains (in Florence). The Pisa portion is on an R train which doesn't qualify for the meno discounts. This will prevent the discount from showing when trying to book Venice/Pisa. To get the meno discount, book Venice/Florence at the discount and a separate ticket for the R tain Florence/Pisa (I don't think you will be able to book the R train more than a week out). The meno 30 (requires 15 day advance purchase) for the Venice/Florence would be 29€ and the Florence/Pisa ticket is 5.70€. You listed 47.40 for this ticket, but with the discount the total for Venice/Pisa would be 34.70€.

The Artesia return would have to be purchased from Trenitalia 30 days in advance for the discount (must pick up in the country you are departing). If they are willing to share a 4 person couchette, the Smart fare is showing as 45€ for 1st cl for a random date in June. It isn't allowing booking for 2 bed compartments. I don't know if the Smart fare is sold out or the fare just isn't offered.

By Euronight ARTESIA departing every might from Rome, Florence, Bologna, Venice and Milan to Parigi Bercy:
Price (in euros) Solution
35€ couchette in 6-place compartment
60€ couchette in 4-place compartment. >>>says 60, but is showing 45