English speaking
Apr 15th, 2006, 12:42 PM
#41
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There's a lot of difference between correcting someone who posts a several paragraph long windbag of a diatribe and uses a word totally wrong, as opposed to randomly "correcting" someone's misspelling. The long post misusing the word "megalopolis" to try to justify a silly comment deserved being corrected. The city of London does not fit the definition of megalopolis in any shape or form. If the poster had only mentioned it in passing it would be one thing and easily ignored, but to rant on and on trying to justify one silly comment by incorrect word usage was pretty hard to ignore. In fact that poster (you might know her, nessundorma) actually quoted a dictionary definition that clearly was contrary to the very point she was making. Posting a dictionary definition of a word and insisting it says the opposite is kind of hard for anyone to ignore!
Incidentally, I have spent time in Antwerp, Brussels, and Bruge -- a fair amount of time in the latter two. I loved them all. I had no problems communicating with the people, who are indeed friendly and warm. Most of them were in tourist-related businesses one way or another. But I don't think I spoke with more than a few who didn't have trouble with the English language -- use of correct tense, number, etc. I'm not complaining.
And for that matter I have spent a fair amount of time traveling (mainly by bicycle) through the countryside in Belgium. It was rare indeed to find anyone at all who spoke English at all, yet alone spoke it fluently.
I'll stand fast to the statement that MOST Belgians do not speak English more fluently (better) than MOST Americans. You may choose to disagree with my viewpoint, just I choose to disagree with yours. Once again, I really don't care.
In any case, dragonflydesign, you can see from the bulk of the answers here that you will not have any problems finding people in Belgium (at least in the cities) making it possible to navigate your way around. And unless you are in a very rural restaurant or one way off the beaten path, there will be someone to help you with the menu.
Incidentally, I have spent time in Antwerp, Brussels, and Bruge -- a fair amount of time in the latter two. I loved them all. I had no problems communicating with the people, who are indeed friendly and warm. Most of them were in tourist-related businesses one way or another. But I don't think I spoke with more than a few who didn't have trouble with the English language -- use of correct tense, number, etc. I'm not complaining.
And for that matter I have spent a fair amount of time traveling (mainly by bicycle) through the countryside in Belgium. It was rare indeed to find anyone at all who spoke English at all, yet alone spoke it fluently.
I'll stand fast to the statement that MOST Belgians do not speak English more fluently (better) than MOST Americans. You may choose to disagree with my viewpoint, just I choose to disagree with yours. Once again, I really don't care.
In any case, dragonflydesign, you can see from the bulk of the answers here that you will not have any problems finding people in Belgium (at least in the cities) making it possible to navigate your way around. And unless you are in a very rural restaurant or one way off the beaten path, there will be someone to help you with the menu.
Apr 15th, 2006, 12:48 PM
#42
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Who cares?
About the OP, I mean, given the direction this thread went.
Just kidding. It appears to me the OP had no trouble understanding the context in which the fulsome reassurances were being given, and fulsome reassurances were in order given her question.
Now I promise to stop getting Neopolitan as worked up as a wet hen.
About the OP, I mean, given the direction this thread went.
Just kidding. It appears to me the OP had no trouble understanding the context in which the fulsome reassurances were being given, and fulsome reassurances were in order given her question.
Now I promise to stop getting Neopolitan as worked up as a wet hen.
Apr 15th, 2006, 12:57 PM
#43
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Isn't it always funny, when one person insists on defending herself, that's fine, but if another person explains himself he's either a "wet hen" or an "idiot". We went through this before. I am not mad or angry in the least. Do you make me laugh with your silly answers like "people going to New York the first week in May should expect a heat wave in the 90's", or trying to justify that London and Los Angeles are alike because they are both a megalopolis? Yes. Long winded mistakes are always amusing to me. That is not the same as making me angry. You get your emotions confused.
Apr 15th, 2006, 01:01 PM
#44
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As long as we're all being so pedantic here, may I point out that tedgale's sentence "Later, I lay down," cited as an example of incorrect use of English, is actually perfectly correct?
The forms of the intransitive verb "to lie (down)" are lie, lay, lain.
I often lie on the grass.
Yesterday, I lay on the grass.
I have lain on the grass many times.
The forms of the transitive verb "to lay" are lay, laid, laid.
I often lay my book on the table.
Yesterday, I laid my book on the table.
I have laid my book on the table many times.
So, do I win the Pedant of the Month award?
The forms of the intransitive verb "to lie (down)" are lie, lay, lain.
I often lie on the grass.
Yesterday, I lay on the grass.
I have lain on the grass many times.
The forms of the transitive verb "to lay" are lay, laid, laid.
I often lay my book on the table.
Yesterday, I laid my book on the table.
I have laid my book on the table many times.
So, do I win the Pedant of the Month award?
Apr 15th, 2006, 01:52 PM
#45
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Well, you're giving it a good try, but I think you have a way to go to win the title.
And let us not forget, there are two meanings of pendantic. One has to do with obsessing over minute details in expressing something. The other has to do with making a grand show of expressing knowledge. The latter is most often amusing when that grand show is incorrect to begin with.
Apr 15th, 2006, 02:56 PM
#47
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I am not quite sure how to respond to some of these verbalized prejudices. The majority of Belgians do not speak English, at all, let alone better than Americans.
I am always amazed at the people who have made a few trips to Europe, stayed in tourist areas, and are convinced that everyone there speaks English. I have made many trips to Europe, stayed in totally different areas, where no one spoke English. I am convinced that few people in Europe speak English.
In reality, only about 38% of the people in western continental Europe speak English. This is not my perception; this is cold hard facts based on periodic surveys by the European Union of it's population (www.europa.eu.int). Overall about 38% speak English well enough to engage in a conversation. In the Netherlands it is over 80%, in France it’s in the low 30%, in Belgium it’s about 38%.
I am always amazed at the people who have made a few trips to Europe, stayed in tourist areas, and are convinced that everyone there speaks English. I have made many trips to Europe, stayed in totally different areas, where no one spoke English. I am convinced that few people in Europe speak English.
In reality, only about 38% of the people in western continental Europe speak English. This is not my perception; this is cold hard facts based on periodic surveys by the European Union of it's population (www.europa.eu.int). Overall about 38% speak English well enough to engage in a conversation. In the Netherlands it is over 80%, in France it’s in the low 30%, in Belgium it’s about 38%.
Apr 16th, 2006, 10:38 AM
#49
Dragonflydesign- as to your original question about worried Hubby & restaurant menu...
how about copying the lists at the back of any decent phrase book, or finding ones on the internet and printing 'em out.
My advice is that any menu is basically the same in layout the various categories of foods, you can reasonably guess at with a few keywords. Then with the assistance of your handy restaurant translator list, you can make a pretty good go of it, in my experience.
how about copying the lists at the back of any decent phrase book, or finding ones on the internet and printing 'em out.
My advice is that any menu is basically the same in layout the various categories of foods, you can reasonably guess at with a few keywords. Then with the assistance of your handy restaurant translator list, you can make a pretty good go of it, in my experience.
Apr 16th, 2006, 02:41 PM
#51
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Get a copy of Marling's Menu Master for French. I think it is about $10 from Amazon. It is a thin book, easy to pack, something to read on the way over, then when you get there you can understand the menu's. It explains the various terms on a menu, then has a sample menu you can use for practice.
Or, just ask anyone in Brussels. Afterall, they ALL speak English better than you do.
Or, just ask anyone in Brussels. Afterall, they ALL speak English better than you do.
Apr 18th, 2006, 01:34 PM
#52
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I just found this thread, I haven't read all of it, but I can just tell you things from my point of view. Almost all Flemish people under 60 who got a higher education have a conversational level of English, no matter if they live in the city or on the countryside, as education is the same in every school. And almost all Flemish people under 30 speak some English, regardless of their education.
And of course most Americans speak better English than most Belgians, but let me tell you a little story about that...
Some years ago I happened to share quite a long ride on a skiing elevator in the French alps with a British man. At the end of the ride he asked me with his BBC English accent: "Are you American?" and I wasn't sure if I had to consider that a compliment or an insult
And of course most Americans speak better English than most Belgians, but let me tell you a little story about that...
Some years ago I happened to share quite a long ride on a skiing elevator in the French alps with a British man. At the end of the ride he asked me with his BBC English accent: "Are you American?" and I wasn't sure if I had to consider that a compliment or an insult
Apr 18th, 2006, 01:54 PM
#53
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Well off the point but I shall continue nevertheless...
On the subject of pedants, I read the other day in an article about writers' favourite words that you should give a document for proofreading to colleagues who have particular problems with pedantry - and in it mis-spell the word 'pedantic'. Then watch as they squirm whilst worrying as to how to tell you that you've spelt it incorrectly....!
On the subject of pedants, I read the other day in an article about writers' favourite words that you should give a document for proofreading to colleagues who have particular problems with pedantry - and in it mis-spell the word 'pedantic'. Then watch as they squirm whilst worrying as to how to tell you that you've spelt it incorrectly....!
Apr 19th, 2006, 07:16 AM
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After all these compliments made to everyone, I try to resume for the OP.
Stardust has it right:
- Almost all Flemish people under 60 with a higher education have a conversational level of English.
- Almost all Flemish people under 30 speak some English, regardless of their education.
As the OP is travelling to Antwerp and Bruges, he will have no difficulty in talking to Flemish people. With French speaking people, be it in Brussels or wherever in Belgium, conversation in general will vary from 'difficult' to 'forget about it'.
As for the restaurants, you'll find out that it is difficult to have a bad meal in Flanders when respecting some elementary precaution.
To larryincolorado:
Statistics don't say it all. When you say that "in Belgium it’s about 38%", it may be so. But the % in the Flemish part should be around 70%, and the French speaking part and a large part of Brussels might be at about 5 or 10%, certainly not more.
Stardust has it right:
- Almost all Flemish people under 60 with a higher education have a conversational level of English.
- Almost all Flemish people under 30 speak some English, regardless of their education.
As the OP is travelling to Antwerp and Bruges, he will have no difficulty in talking to Flemish people. With French speaking people, be it in Brussels or wherever in Belgium, conversation in general will vary from 'difficult' to 'forget about it'.
As for the restaurants, you'll find out that it is difficult to have a bad meal in Flanders when respecting some elementary precaution.
To larryincolorado:
Statistics don't say it all. When you say that "in Belgium it’s about 38%", it may be so. But the % in the Flemish part should be around 70%, and the French speaking part and a large part of Brussels might be at about 5 or 10%, certainly not more.
