Colette

Hi, I've done a Fodor's search on this tour company, and the results were mostly positive, but the most recent post was October 2002. So, thought I'd see what has transpired since then! Does anyone have any recent experience with this company? Wondering if it still has a good reputation, are the hotels still clean, etc. I think we're taking tour buses from one city to another----can we leave our luggage safely on the bus during the day tours? Thanks for any info you can share!

CarolA

Did one a year or so ago with a group of Girl Scouts.

Hotels were fine. I was not thrilled with the Paris location (Near Pigalle).

The bus driver stayed with our bus at all times and we left all kinds of things on there with no problem.

Our tour was a custom with only 24 girls and women on the bus which worked out great.

Zeus

My wife has taken 6 EF Tours (and I get to come along as chaperone). She has two more set up for this summer. I prefer to do it on my own but the price is hard to beat. Seeing the kids' enthusiasm can be infectious. The hotels are always clean and comfortable. Breakfast and dinner are almost always included. They are nothing to get excited about, but they taste pretty decent after a day of running all over town. Many a night I capped the evening with a gelato or pretzel if the evening dinner wasn't quite enough. (The one thing about these tours that really ticks me off, and it isn't EF's fault, is that the kids always hate the meals. I guess teenagers are happy to eat McDonald's or KFC every meal instead of sampling local foods).

You get a nice introduction to European history and culture. I've been to a number of places I never had any prior interest in visiting but when I left I longed to come back again. The pace is pretty quick but my 72 year old mother and other seniors kept up. You can always sit things out when the kids decide to climb up to the top of Notre Dame or punt on the Avon.

On every EF trip I've been on, including Mexico and Spain, we could safely leave things on the bus because the driver usually stayed with the bus while we toured.

Are you a student planning to go or an adult trying to put together a group? If I were a student, I'd much prefer to go on my own. As a young lady, perhaps you'd have more fun going with a couple friends?

kybourbon

I've only had bad experiences with EF. If you want a quality tour use either ACIS,NETC or CHA. We saw a group of EF students in Italy this summer and their "Venice" hotel was an hour north of Venice. EF still owes all my participants money and also a friend of mine that had a group on a different tour. There are more recent posts here than 2002. Do a search for student tours.
You were able to leave your luggage safely on the bus during the day as well as backpacks. Hotel quality and location depend on the time of year and country.
CHA uses nice well located hotels and has excellent tour guides.

Colette

Thx for your informative responses------and I'll do a "student tours" search.

lauren25

I took my first trip to Europe with EF tours and would do it again. I enjoyed most of the meals and the hotels. I wasn't very impressed with the choices they made for the establishments in Paris.
Their exchange student offerings left something to be desired, but other than that, I would highly reccomend them.

Beatle

I've taken 4 student groups to Europe with EF. 1 bad experience, the rest were great. The best tip I can give you is establish a list of priorities and give them to EF. Tell them if you favor a certain area of Paris, or if you want to stay in Venice, not outside. Yes, hotels were clean and generally in good areas. Personally, I like to keep the size of the group to about 20. I also prefer the customized tours to the catalog trips.

kybourbon

Here are the websites for student tour companies from top quality to low quality.
ACIS.com top
NETC.com top
cha-tours.com mid
passports.com mid
eftours.com budget
explorica.com budget

Read the fine print. Unless you are doing a private tour (extra $$$) or have a large group (35+) you may not end up on the tour you have selected. While all the companies offer many tours they don't actually run all of them. So if you have a small group you will be bumped to a comparable tour at the last minute. They can also change your travel date - 3 days in either direction in the summer (1 in winter).

EF and Explorica will not guarantee any hotels or locations or amenities (AC etc.). They will just put down your requests. This is not a problem with ACIS, NETC, and CHA as they use better quality well located hotels.

EF and Explorica include places/sights that are free and very few places that have entrance fees. Learn tour brochure language - visit means you will actually go in, see means drive or walk by.

I personally have had bad experiences(recent) with both EF and Explorica and would never use either company again. There was another person on the Europe forum 2 weeks ago having a major problem with Explorica and I am sure they will never use Explorica again either.

Beatle and Carole A seem to have had a better experience by booking a private tour with EF.

CarolA

I have long suspected that our experience was different then that you may have on "prescheduled" tour.

We did pay extra to have a personalized tour and it was much smaller then the average tour.

We also had an EXCELLENT guide and that cannot be stressed enough. We had specifically requested a female guide since this was an all girl tour. Ours worked with us and was wonderful when one of the chaperones broke her arm in three places on day one! (Buy insurance!)

We were specific in what we wanted in terms of locations. As I said, Paris was not the greatest, but we had no problems and I know it is hard to book hotels for a group of kids. We were within easy walk of a Metro stop however.

kybourbon

CarolA - Did you go anywhere but Paris?

My last tour guide with EF had NO knowledge of the cities we were touring. As a result we wasted time backtracking and trying to locate the places we were supposed to be touring. She offered to carry drugs across borders for students(the tour started in Amsterdam). Did I mention she was wearing her marijuana socks at the time? She refused to stay at the low quality hotel in Paris but expected everyone else to be happy with the hotel. She constantly played and tried to sell her music cd's on the bus and refused to quit playing them. She lost her credit card. She took a ticket for the London Eye from one of the elderly teachers in the group because she decided she wanted to ride and had not bought a ticket for herself. The poor lady she took the ticket away from was in tears.

I am 99% sure that she and the bus driver conspired to rip off students and teachers in Paris. While I am fully aware that all the tour companies take you to stores/restaurants where they get a percentage of what you spend this was beyond that. In Paris they came into the restaurant during a group dinner to say the bus had parked wrong and the bus driver had received a ticket for parking near the restaurant in the amount of $400 and could eveyone pitch in and help him pay it. Many in the group felt sorry for the bus driver. I was not one of them. I felt it was his job to know where he could park. After getting home I began to realise there probably wasn't a ticket - just a bonus for the bus driver.

These are just a few of the many problems I have encountered with EF. They continue to call me and ask if I will reconsider traveling with them. The last time they called I asked if they had a tour guide still employed named -----. Yes she is still working for them even though she told us she was a singer/lawyer.

CarolA

WOW! Our tour guide was thousands of times better. She stayed with us everywhere. She fully understood our group, she even asked me if it was a problem if she had a drink in the hotel bar since the girls could see her. (Adults chaperoning Girl Scout trips cannot drink or smoke in sight of a girl even on thier "down" time.)

I don't recall her last name, but her first name was Kaye and we adored her. If I could get her again I would do a tour in a heart beat.

We did have a "step on" tour guide in Paris.

We started in London and were there for several days. Then to Paris and then to Switzerland. The trip was planned around day visits to the Girl Guide/Girl Scout centers in these locations.

Now having said all that. I am basically doing the same tour in 2005. Since I am in charge this time, we are NOT using a tour company. My trip is coming out to about the same amount of money and instead of slow ferries over the channel and night trains we are doing HIGH speed trains. I am saving money on lodging by staying at the Girl Scout/Guide Locations in London and Switzerland and hopefully at hostel in Paris. I will be checking the hostel out on my vacation in May. (Last time I was just suppose to be along for the ride, but as the only experineced traveler my duties increased!)

kybourbon

CarolA - I am putting a trip together for next summer also but not through a student tour company. We will probably start in Amsterdam, Paris,
Barcelona, maybe overnite ferry to Genoa, Cinque Terre, Florence, Rome.
I am getting quotes from several companies. It takes about 20 people to get a decent price.

When my daughter was little and in scouts one of the girls in her troop went to England and brought everyone a Girl Guide souvenier. They were thrilled.

The better student tour companies use the chunnel and the high speed trains.
They charge more but include more such as actually going up the Eiffel Tower not just drive by.

How many are in your group and how are you arranging discounts for travel,air fare, etc.?

CarolA

kybourbon,
There will be about 20 girls and 4 adults in my group.

I found group discount booking on RailEurope.com I have spoken with STA regarding discount air, but right now it appears that we might do better just booking it. I am going to continue to monitor. I also have recommendation for a local TA to assist us.

We do not have our final dates yet. WE have to confirm Switzerland which is the toughtest place to get into.

The main reason I decided not to do a tour company was the Girl Scout/Guide lodging. I have to set that up and since that elimiates 2/3s of our lodging I knew that the tour companies would not be happy with the remainder.

We are allowing the girls to make the final decisons on what they see so they can decide if going up the Eiffel Tower is worth it for them. (I am going to have to PUSH some museums on them!) The other benefit we have is the ablity to break up so that if one group wants to do one thing and one something else we can split.

teacherlady

Colette, another teacher and I led a group of kids to Europe in 1990 with EF and it was truly terrible. Crummy hotels, a guide that tried to get kids to buy beer for him, no help whatsoever from EF when our TWA flight was cancelled due to weather and we missed a day of the tour, 15 minute stops at heavily advertised locations, bus drivers that raced each other on the road, you get the idea. I also have heard that CHA is a better company. I guess you get what you pay for, and our EF trip was rock-bottom priced. I will never travel with them again.

kybourbon

teacherlady - CHA is excellent. The hotels were great(pools, ac, etc), the guides professional and knowledgeable. I would use them again but not EF or Explorica.

CarolA - Isn't it cheaper to get point to point rail tickets than passes through Rail Europe. All the airlines I've talked to will give group rates with 10 passengers. Call and ask for their group reservations and they will give you a quote.

Tourgoddess2

I've replied recently to this in another forum, but I'll paste my views below. Actually, for international, my vote is for Casterbridge. They have a US office in Virginia and I work with Kathy Pond, who herself, is a guide and tuned into education. http://casterbridgetours.com/US/default.html

Rock bottom price? EF/Smithsonian Student Tours is NOT cheaper, although it is indeed, the 'low end' in service.

Having worked in the US and abroad, for the past 25 years, with several student and commercial tour operators, I can safely say that EF costs, in the long run, MORE than many other full-service all-inclusive companies such as Casterbridge (for international) or some of the companies I work with in the US. The program price that EF initially quotes is a few hundred dollars off the final cost. (In one recent case, off by $700.!) Their pricing can be quite deceptive as things are added and changed up to the time of departure! But the teachers and parents only remember the low-ball' program price' and marketing, but not all their credit card statements or the amount of cash they had to give their students.

What is that $95 membership fee all about?

Even some adult commercial companies that have contracted me to run student trips, both here and abroad, have done a better job, at a lower cost, than EF! It has also been demonstrated time after time by some of my schools that have 'shopped' around (which I encourage because it is truly their fiduciary responsibility). that EF was more expensive.

As an independent, professional, curriculum-based educational program designer and planner, I know first-hand about the costing of these programs because I have worked both in the field and in various student tour operators' offices. The large companies have tremendous overhead and some are owned and/or operated by venture capitalists that require a hefty return on their investment. The addition of the questionable teacher 'stipends', 'loyalty rewards', 'bonuses', 'finders fees', free travel, professional development, and other 'considerations', beyond a free trip for the teacher, jack up the prices. One company marks up nearly 100% of the cost, that is to say, 50% of what you pay, goes to the company.

That doesn't leave much for the students.

Do the parents understand about all these teacher perks that are taking away from the quality of the trip?

That is why I now refuse to work with EF and other such companies and contract only a few good ones to operate my own trips. I'm a direct advocate for my schools, teachers, students, and parents, rather than for a tour operator. I want them to receive the best program for the fairest price.

So how much really goes into these program for the students? Hmm, let's see: Hotels far from the city centers, meal vouchers at food courts, inexperienced escorts/chaperones, one perfunctory 4-hour city sightseeing tour per venue, mostly free admissions (in DC) and inadequate insurance? Not much.

Does EF add hands-on and experiential discoveries or cross-curricular content on the trip? I haven't experienced any. It can be done in the US and abroad. And yes, I have worked for them.

EF will not even assist the teachers with (or even mention the necessity of) most appointments in the US or abroad. Again, a cut in service which can certainly cost your students more in the field. Two guides I know who haved worked with EF/Smithsonian Student Tours for the past two years have yet to visit the Capitol with their groups! Unbelievable! It seems, only the most seasoned teachers traveling with the no-frills companies seem to know how to secure appointments, and most appointments in the US don't even cost anything.

Then on top of it, the students need to 'pony up' tips/gratuities, meals, taxes, luggage fees, some admissions, as well as their souvenir money in the field. Insult on injury - several unscrupulous tour guides and bus drivers take advantage of the students by bringing them to places to get commissions.

Why not just pay the guide decently, professionally, up-front (included in the price of the tour) and have the company take care of the built-in driver tip commensurate with the quality of service, as well as all the other taxes, tips, admissions, and fees in the field?

Unfortunately all-inclusive prices scare off travelers; it's a pity because the nickle-and-diming eventually costs everyone more in the long run.

Oh. And check out EF's insurance - lot's of exclusions - they actually own their own insurance company and have been downgraded since 2004. They give refunds in the form of travel vouchers for future trips! Try to take out another insurance policy through Travelex or Travelguard or some other A++ carriers that deal with student trips. Any refunds you receive from these insurance carriers include pre-existing illnesses, might have clauses concerning cancellation due to poor grades, deportment, terrorist acts - and the refunds are in cash.

LaurenKahn1

You know EF (now Smithsonian Student Tours) is not the only one that operates this way. While I do agree with all your criticisms of student tour packages that do not include everything, tour companies do that because it makes it look as if they charge less. It may be a mirage, but it is business.

Not everyone wants the full service you offer with knowledgeable people. Many student groups can only afford 2-3 nights in hotels. If the price of the trip goes up too much, many students cannot go. And parents look at the prices and may be put off when they see a higher all inclusive price (even though there will be no optionals). It is all a question of a business model that works for the tour company.

Much can depend on the quality of your tour director and step on guides. Some are good and some are not. Sometimes, during peak times, tour companies cannot get individuals they want and have to substitute.

I am licensed in DC and NYC. I work principally for 3 tour companies in the MidAtlantic area. I have not worked abroad yet, although there are areas of Europe I know better than some places in the US. When I am offered a tour and I cannot do it, I do work to get it placed with another tour director or guide. Most of the time, I "vet" the people. If I don't know them I at least talk to them on the phone before giving the referral out because I don't want a totally incompetent person referred. You can tell a lot from a few minutes on the phone--honest.

The main problem I have with tours is the adults. Often the parents who are chaperones think they are on vacation and the teachers have not prepared the kids. Some kids pay attention and some don't. The commentary is "pitched" to those who are interested.

As a tour director, even if the itinerary is new to me, you always research it ahead of time and plot out the route. GPS has problems because it can send you down streets where tour buses are not allowed. I wish they would come up with GPS for tour buses that focuses only on bus routes.

Have a great time whatever tour package you choose--or if you go independently!