This would be our first trip to France (Sept-Oct 2019): couple in our early 50s, enjoying scenery, markets, good food, photography, nature, history. Looking to see as much as we can, but in a relaxed way. Here is a first draft:

Day 1 - land in Marseille, pick up car, drive to Cassis, spend 2 nights there
Day 3 - visit Camargue, sleep in Saintes-Maries-de-la-Me
Day 4 - drive to Gordes, 4 nights there (3 days)Day 8 + 9 - drive to Sarlat, with 2 stops each day: Pont du Gard + Millau, and Conques + Rocamadour. Where to stop overnight? I was thinking Rodez, which would allow for a shorter drive on the 2nd day

Day 10 - 15 in SarlatDay 16 - drive to Bordeaux, take TGV to Paris
Day 17 - 21: Paris
Day 22 - fly back home

Is this a reasonable itinerary? Too repetitive in terms of small villages? We prefer them to cities, but I wouldn't want us to get bored?

What to do the extra "?" day? A few options I am considering: visit Gorges du Tarn from Rodez (I know, we would be back-tracking), or visit another area of Dordogne. What would make sense, within 1 hr drive from Sarlat? Bergerac + Ch teau de Monbazillac look interesting, but it's too long of a drive for a day trip. Should we stay 1 night less in Sarlat and stay in Bergerac on the way to Bordeaux? Other idea?

Any other place we are overlooking? Any recommendation/substitution? Thanks.

3) : Small villages versus towns. Orange has a splendid amphitheater dating from Roman times, perfectly preserved and superb. The rest of the city is bof.
Vaison is beautiful and the small villages around are fantastic.
So if you like roman ruins, go to Orange, you have enough small villages.

We loved both Sarlat and Bergerac, wait for Saint Cirq to read and comment. She is a nice lady from US who bought a house in Dordogne some years ago - you'll get the best of 2 worlds with her expertise.

If there is any chance that you will have jet lag, I would strongly encourage you to take public transportation for your first night or two. Although many people are not aware of it, there is mounting evidence that driving with jet lag is just as dangerous -- to yourself and others -- as driving drunk, and nothing you can do will prevent the microsleeps (which you might not even notice) that are the apparent culprit. Seriously -- NOT a good idea, no matter your other constraints and no matter your prior experience! And please be patient with me if you think I’m being overly adamant, but I know too many people who have died or been seriously injured in accidents to which jet lag was a contributing factor, and I know too many people who will spend the rest of their lives dealing with the knowledge that they were responsible for accidents that resulted in multiple deaths, including those of children, all because they were too confident in their ability to drive safely with jet lag. The issue has become a bit of a cause c�l�bre for me….

Looks interesting. My choice would be to spend more time in the Camargue and get to Nimes, Arles and Aigues-Mortes or at least one of the three. The theater in Orange is indeed splendid as thibault says. For the Camargue,even late in the season, don't forget strong mosquito repellent. I guess Marseille isn't for everyone, but it is on my list of favorite places.

Though I rarely agree with kja on much I do on the bit about not driving after jet lag - even if can sleep on plane. I'd stay in Marseille that first day and explore one of Europe's most fascinating cities. Now about that TGV train ride to Paris - book as early as you can - I think about 3 months out to nab limited in number discounted tickets much cheaper than full fare - www.oui.sncf book your own though some fine www.trainline.eu easier to use and seems to always match cheapest price on French Railways' site (www.oui.sncf) - chose your own seats when buying tickets. www.seat61.com has adroit info on booking your own tickets - general info trains and what to expect also www.ricksteves.com and BETS-European Rail Experts.

Agree with thibault about St-Cirq's invaluable takes on southern France and especially Dordogne.

It's interesting what you have picked out to visit in the Dordogne. Not exactly what I would have expected from a newcomer, but just fine nonetheless.

It's LAscaux, not Lescaux, and you need to get your tickets in advance, assuming you are intending to visit Lascaux IV. Tickets to Lascaux II are much easier to come by in person, onsite or in Montignac.

In St-L�on-sur-V�zere, have lunch in the garden of Le Petit L�on. Go by our friend Olivier's shop Picquoli and see some amazing handmade jewelry from mammouth tusks and other natural wonders. Stop by the Village Troglodytique de la Madelerine just down the road.

You could do a lot more on Day 3. Beynac (the castle) will take about 1-2 hours, Milandes the same (more if you time it to include the afternoon falcon show, which is wonderful). Plenty of time to do other things in between, like a gabarre trip on the river.

Same with Day 4. Why not pencil in some time at the Prehistory Museum and the P�le in Les Eyzies? Absolutely fascinating, both of them, and will consume a few hours of your time.

I'm not a fan of Hautefort or that part of the Dordogne, but am too personally invested in this part of the world, so it wouldn't be right for me to comment. They are deserving of a visit, for sure.

I surely wouldn't go traipsing off to the Gorges du Tarn, given that the world is your oyster right there in the P�rigord. What about visiting Monpazier and Belv�s and some of the gorgeous bastide towns? What about the markets? What about the art towns like Meyrals that are filled with brilliant galleries and artists? What about the abbeys, like the one at Cadouin?

You only have to move about 30 meters in this part of the world to discover something new and wonderful - you don't have to drive to Bergerac, though that can be an adventure in itself. Depends on what you want to do. The Chateau de Montbazillac is worth a sort of snore tour, and Bergerac itself is a very nice town, once you get into its core.

Great suggestions so far, thank you all.

thibaut: That’s pretty much what I was thinking, so good to hear I was not too much off.

kja: you have a very valid point and I appreciate it. If we can get a business class flight (flat bed/chair) we would drive the 1 hr Marseille to Cassis. Otherwise, we’ll probably stay overnight in Marseille. I agree, jet lag is not something to be ignored.

Envierges: Hmm, the trip seems heavy on small villages and too light on cities, so maybe something to think about and make some changes...

PalenQ: great suggestion on TGV tickets, thanks!

StCirq: I would like to know what you’d expect as an itinerary for a newcomer. And I mean this in the most non-sarcastic way. If you were to select an itinerary for 5-6 days for a first time visitor, what would you include?

We will definitely need to see some of the towns on their market day. And might replace a castle with either Monpazier or Belv�s.

“What about the abbeys, like the one at Cadouin?” You just put it on my map, thank you! It looks amazing. Same about Meyrals – you see, not too much info about them and they get missed. I like both these ideas – they are close to our base, interesting, and different. Thank you!

>>>Day 4 - drive to Gordes, 4 nights there (3 days)
This is not a long drive. You don't want stop on the way?

>>> 1) Rousillon + L'Isle-sur-la-Sorgue. They are at the opposite directions from Gordes. Both take time to visit.

>>> 2) Bonnieux + Menerbes. Unless you have specific interests, these two would not take a whole day. I found Menerbes quite busy with bus tourists. The town I liked between these two is Lacoste. Large buses seem to skip this charming town across the valley from Bonnieux.

greg,
We'll definitely stop, but not sure where yet. Maybe Arles or Avignon? Roman ruins or Papal palace? Other than the 1 main attraction, which one to walk through? Which one has more interesting streets and architecture?

I know that Rousillon and L'Isle-sur-la-Sorgue are in opposite directions, but both are fairly close, so I was thinking 1/2 day in each? I guess you are saying that's not enough...Maybe pair them each with one of the smaller towns? What do you think?

Because I am not at all big on splendor, I prefer Arles with its fascinating history from Romans and Saracens and settings of Van Gogh paintings to papist Avignon. And if you're lucky in Arles, you might be able to get to a bullfight Provencal where, when I attended, the music was from Bizet's Carmen andL'Arl�sienne.

Envierges,
Arles sounds like a fine idea, and I think drive-wise is the shortest route anyway. For our interests, I think it's a better fit too.
But no bullfight for me, sorry, even Provencal style.

xyz99, I have no problem at all with your itinerary. No point in mentioning what most first-timers to the area tend to focus on because, well, your itinerary is far more interesting.

I'd add a couple of things, though, and you should have plenty of time for them:

Domme, a must-see hill town, IMO, with one of the most iconic views of the Dordogne Valley from the esplanade (also a couple of really good restaurants there).

La Roque-St-Christophe and La Maison Forte de Reignac - if you plan carefully you can fit these both into your day at Lascaux and St-L�on-sur-V�z�re.

Chateau de Commarque, one of my most favorite quirky places around here. And there's a lovely little lake at Tamni�s, just down the road, which is a delightful place for an afternoon swim and snack.

Limeuil - not a must-see, but you could hardly find a prettier spot to have an ap�ro - it's the confluence of the Dordogne and V�z�re rivers, with a unique "elbow bridge". And the close-by Chapelle St-Martin has quite a history!

If you want suggestions for where to eat magnificently, cheaply, and away from the tourist hordes, will be happy to oblige.

FWIW, I vastly prefer Arles to Avignon. And while Rodez is a fine place for a stopover, if you can make it to Figeac, even better. Lots of hidden treasures there.

StCirq,
Glad to hear that you approve of my itinerary so far. But it will change, because of your great suggestions

I looked at La Roque-St-Christophe photos and description and thought that we could add it on the same day as the cave. La Maison Forte de Reignac looks great too. I know you said we need to plan carefully to fit everything in one day, but I don’t know…we’ll be on vacation and usually don’t start on our way before 9 – 9:30. Then we need to stop for lunch…we’ll see. Maybe 3 out of 4, and I’ll be happy with that.

Chateau de Commarque – added, but the swim in the lake is probably not an option in Sept-Oct.

Is this what you mean by “elbow bridge” https://tinyurl.com/ya46behd ? Never seen a bridge like this before. I think we should at least stop for a few minutes to see it.

I would love, love to hear restaurant recommendations. Thank you! Not sure if all restaurants are still open in Sept – Oct, is that something to worry about? Or is that still considered “in season”?

Figeac…hmmm, that’s more than an extra hr drive to get there. Gordes – Pont du Gard – Millau – Figeac is almost 6 hrs drive. Sadly, too long for us.

If you know of any nice, easy and short walks/strolls in any of the places mentioned in this entire thread, I would like to hear about those too. And what’s your favorite market in the area? Thanks.

xyz99, we spent a week in the Dordogne in May 2015. You can click on my name if you wish to read my trip report. In a nutshell, we spent 2 nights in Brantome, which I don't think is mentioned too often on this board, but we really enjoyed it. We also spent 4 nights in Sarlat.

In the Brantome area, we took a nice leisurely drive along the Dronne River to explore villages, such as Bourdeilles, Creyssac, Montagrier, Tocane, and Lusignac, our favorite village.We had a guided tour of the Abbey in Brantome.

On our way to Sarlat, we visited Chateau de Hautefort, which we enjoyed very much, and Lascaux II. While in Sarlat, we visited the following: Grotte de Rouffignac, Grotte du Grand Roc, La Rogue-St. Christophe, Dordogne River cruise on a river barge, Marqueyssac Gardens, Beynac Castle, Gouffre de Padirac, and Peche Merle (in the Lot Valley). We enjoyed everything we saw, but some favorites are Perche Merle, Gouffre de Padirac and Grotte de Rouffignac.

Regarding markets, we have been to the market at L'Isle Sur la Sorge several times, and we love it. However, if you can, go on Thursday, not on Sunday. it's a madhouse on Sunday; almost impossible to find parking. We also loved the Saturday morning market in Sarlat. If you are near Egalieres, they have a nice market on Friday mornings.

For restaurants in Sarlat, we liked Le Bistro de l'Octroi and Le Presidial.

Karen,
I found your TR (and the planning post for Provence) so I will study them in detail.

Due to logistics, the North part of Dordogne will have to wait for another trip. We’ll be based around Sarlat and leave the area from Bordeaux, so we’ll try to stay local in that area, with minimal driving.

Where did you start the barge river cruise?

We’ll be in Luberon Wed-Fri, so that fits perfectly for a day trip to L'Isle Sur la Sorge onThu for market day.

I will definitely need to re-work my original Dordogne itinerary… all of you are adding places I realize now I really, really want to see, but none of you offer any suggestion on how to add more days or stretch the length of the day. Not fair!

I see many, many trips to France in our future, and I’m not complaining. Thanks!

Hi xyz99,
We started the barge river cruise in La Roque-Gageac. We used the company Les Gabarres Norbert. Glad I can be of assistance! You will have a wonderful trip.
Karen

xyz99, the gabarre cruises can be accessed in both Beynac and La Roque-Gageac. I recommend boarding at Beynac, as the stretch of river the tour follows is more interesting. They run every half-hour or hour or so - just walk up and buy a ticket. The narrators are very good.

Yes, that's the elbow bridge in Limeuil. Very cool. In addition to the lower town by the river, if you're brave enough to hike the (incredibly steep) lane up to the top of the town, you will pass numerous interesting artisan shops and end up in the botanic gardens. The two restaurants at the very crest of this hill there aren't earth-shattering, but both are good value and have pretty settings.

Pech (not Perche - pech means hill in Occitan, merle means blackbird)) - Merle is a lovely cave, but it's not in the Dordogne and probably too far for you to contemplate visiting. If you want to see another cave, without worries of advance reservations, come on over to St-Cirq and see the Grotte du Sorcier. It's small, but expanding every year as teams of paleontologists arrive every February to dig deeper into it. It's a UNESCO World Heritage site and it's mainly famous for having an engraving of a human (very rare ) in it - the sorcerer. We live next door. You could come for an ap�ro

I understand skipping the lake at Tamni�s, but you can still picnic and swim there in the fall, unsupervised, though. There is absolutely nothing that shuts down in September and October around here. That doesn't happen until Christmas to Easter.

Re: restaurants: La Savie, just outside Meyrals, is our newest find and I can't rave enough about it. Small menu, but everything just impeccably fresh from the farm and the garden. L'Auberge/Ferme de Brusquand outside Marquay is where you go when you want grandma's P�rigourdine cooking. The family that owns and runs it is the family featured in our friend Judith Lit's film "Apr�s l'Hiver, Le Printemps," a chronicle of how the old agricultural ways of life in the P�rigord are dying out - rent it, or depending on what airline you fly you may be able to watch it on board (Air France and I think KLM bought it from her last year). A lovely, lovely film.

l'Auberge de Layotte, on the border of Manaurie and Tursac, is unique, but you must go with an enormous appetite and an open mind. No menu, you just get whatever they've slaughtered and picked that day, mounds and mounds of it. 30€ for a smorgasbord of ap�ritifs, soup, charcuterie, p t�s and rillettes, confits, vegetables, wine, cakes and other desserts, and 6 kinds of floral digestifs. An experience. L'Auberge de la Tang Jolie in the hills between Les Eyzies and Campagne does some good, basic regional cooking as well in a lovely setting.

For everyday bistro fare of the kind that the workers around here eat, go to La Merenda in Meyrals or Le Caf� de la Mairie in Les Eyzies (the latter of which comes across as a tourist spot in high season, and it is, but it's mainly there to give a hearty, cheap lunch to the local plumbers, masons, and electricians).

For something more refined, go to L' Esp�rance in Le Buisson, which has 1 Michelin star, but you'd never know it until the food arrives. Or Le Centenaire in Les Eyzies, or Le Moulin de la Beune also in Les Eyzies. Sawadi in Vitrac has the best Thai food around. Du Cot� de Chez Cathy et Paolo in Cadouin opposite the abbey has the best pizza in the whole area.

We don't think much of the restaurant offerings in Sarlat. P�rigueux has a much better selection.

Our favorite market is dictated by the friendships we've nurtured with vendors over the years so we may not be coming from the same perspective as a visitor. "Our" market is Le Bugue - big market Tuesdays, small market Saturdays. We also love the Friday market in Le Buisson. I think the most popular market for visitors is in St-Cyprien (Sundays), and it's great, but we can't stand the crush, so only go in winter.

There are walking trails all over here, and the tourist offices will have maps of them. We live on one of the Grande Randonn�es, which traverse the area, so between that and the Grotte du Sorcier there are always people walking/hiking by. There are nice riverside walks in both Les Eyzies and Le Bugue and a major bike trail around Grol�jac, but that might be too far to go just for a stroll. One thing we like to do is go to the grounds of the chateau in Campagne and stroll around the paths there, then pop into the caf� opposite the church.

If you're treasure hunters, be sure to google for brocantes and vide-greniers for the period you'll be there. There are plenty in September and October, and there are bargains galore. Our house is pretty much furnished from these. They almost always have at least one refreshment stand for a quick lunch or snack. And check out all the posters in towns and villages - early fall is a time of concerts, f�tes du terroir, night-time markets, art exhibitions, etc. Always SO much going on this time of year!

I enjoyed meals at Le Grand Bleu in Sarlat (still gets excellent reviews), Rossignol in Sarlat (now get somewhat more mixed reviews), and both L'Esplanade and Cabanoix & Chataigne in Domme (each of which still gets great reviews).

StCirq,

That’s why this forum continues to be one of the best, because of people like you. Thank you! Quality over quantity, and so helpful. I guess you tried to post a picture or two, but unfortunately I can’t see them. Never mind, I know what to look (google) for now

Pech Merle looks very interesting, but a little bit outside of our driving range for 1 day trip. Next time. Unless we stay for 1 night in Conques (instead of Rodez) and visit the next day Pech Merle and Rocamadour on our way to Sarlat, with a little backtracking, I agree. We could stop by for an ap�ro J This or an extra day in Dordogne, what do you think?

Wonderful restaurants recommendations, thank you, I started a list. We anticipate great food and wine in France, and we are so ready for it! We might do a couple fancier restaurants, but I think the majority will be nice, casual ones with good food and nice atmosphere.

The plan of basing ourselves in Sarlat had to do with its size, and potentially more good restaurants to let us sample for 6 nights (hopefully walking distance from wherever we’ll stay). You say that you don’t think much of them, though…any other town in the area that you think has some good restaurants? First option would definitely be a place with good restaurants within walking distance, and we can repeat them for good food and ambiance.

Good idea about strolling along the walking paths of the chateau properties…we do the same thing here, on the famous mansions grounds (think Rockefeller and Vanderbilt).

I have no idea if we are treasure hunters, but maybe because it’s hard to find any in our area. But we enjoy antiquity stores and quirky stores, so we’ll look for them in the towns we’ll happen to visit. So glad to hear that Sept-Oct is not a dead season.
Thanks again, back to my map and plans.

Our messages were crossing in cyberspace!