logos999

And waldo, please do post under you "real" screen name, no need to hide. . I won't so it, so why do you?

SeaUrchin

While visiting German friends, we toured the beautiful area and took a trip up to the Eagle's Nest. It was a clear day and the views were astounding. The history of the Eagle's Nest gave me such a negative feeling though, the whole time we were up there. From the time we entered the elevator, through the dining area with the fireplace I had seen on newsreels and TV, out on the veranda and climbing nearby I felt such a mild evil presence. Then touring the beautiful lakes and hills nearby I would look up and the awful building would be hovering in the distance. It seemed menacing to me but I am glad I experienced it, for the history. I now have my own vision of the area when I read or hear about it. I doubt I would return to the Eagle's Nest.

latedaytraveler

Waldo, thank you for referencing THIRD REICH IN RUINS. I am one who continues to study WW II European history. When I went to Eagle’s Nest I was fascinated by the site work and road building done by Italian forced laborers to erect this structure. A few years later, we stopped outside of Nuremburg to explore the old Nazi rally grounds. Obviously, German authorities could have destroyed the site but choose to leave it for posterity. In Nuremburg the whole group climbed up the concrete stadium steps and stood on the spot where Hitler made his most inflammatory speeches. To look out and see the ruins from that vantage point is striking.

A few books I have read which deal with the WW II from several vantage points include:

MAKING FRIENDS WITH HITLER, LORD LONDONDERRY AND the NAZIS by Iran Kershaw (the naïveté of the British aristocracy towards the Nazis)

BAD FAITH, A FORGOTTEN HSITORY OF FAMILY, FATHERLAND, and VICHY FRANCE by Carmen Cahill (fascinating chapter in France’s part in the Holocaust)

THE LAST MAZURKA: A FAMILY’S TALE OF WAR, PASSION, AND LOSS by Andrew Tarnowski (intriguing tale of the Poles’ tragedy being battered back and forth by the Nazis and Soviets as experienced by one noble family)

AFTER THE REICH: THE BRUTAL HISTORY OF THE ALLIED OCCUPATION by Giles MacDonogh (the mostly silent price the Germans paid for Hitler’s folly)

THE RAPE OF EUROPA, A FATE OF EUROPE TREASURES IN THE THIRD REICH AND THE SECOND WORLD WAR by Lynn H. Nicholas (Hitler’s and the Nazi’s incredible focus on securing by any means the great art of Europe for their own ends)

I leave for London Sunday and expect to make it to the Churchill War Room this time! The saga continues…

bettyk

We thoroughly enjoyed the Churchill War Rooms. It was a fascinating looking at a time capsule, really, since nothing has been changed since the end of the war.

Looking back gives us an interesting perspective of what has gone on before. We know what happened and usually why it happened. But to be able to see and touch it makes it more real.

Enjoy your trip.

Paul1950

I'm against slavery, but I've visited former plantations in the southern USA. Pol Pot was terrible, but I visited numerous sites related to the Khmer Rouge "cleansing" of Cambodia. The Nazi regime was a horror, but I visited the Berlin and Walldorf holocaust memorials and walked on top of Hitler's bunker. Many kings, princes, dukes, etc. treated their serfs and peasants horribly, but I have visited many castles and palaces.

I could go on and on. I think it is worse not to see the actual sites. Maybe not for some people, but for me being at the actual place where these terrible things happened is meaningful. If we push these places to the background, then people would find it easier to forget. And we really should never forget.

If you don't want to go, that is fine. But just because I visit these places does not in any way indicate that I'm a slavery-loving, Hitler-worshipping, Pol Pot groupie who wants the return of the Czars.

ekscrunchy

I've found this thread very interesting.

I will just add a recommendation for a very good book set largely in the areas discussed above:


http://www.amazon.com/Evas-Cousin-Ba.../dp/0345449061

scatcat

So, who gets the profits from the entrance fees to Kehlsteinhaus? Nazis?

logos999

Peoples motivations, the resulting denial, anger are indeed fascinating. No difference between the nationalites in that respect. Looking for a Nazi freak show. But then there are still those other people.

Otzi

And because I drive a BMW and love German beer some ignoramous mighy think I'm a Nazi too.

I like looking for the old Cold War missle sites, border guard towers and bomb shelters. I must be a closet Commie.

Why are Fodorites so damned concerned about what others might think? "No white sneakers, don't wear shorts,and hide your camera or the Europeans will point at you and laugh." It must be a depressing world some of you folks dwell in.

bettyk

If someone thought that logos was representative of all Germans, they might reconsider visiting and bringing all those tourist dollars with them. I know I've left alot of money there during the last 10 yrs. Enjoyed every dolalr I spent too, even at Kehlsteinhaus.

logos999

And don't you forget betty, the Nazis build the Autobahn. Yeah, they have done good things too, right? ...

SheilaOB

The Post,"Eagle's Nest = Tourist trap" Posted by: elizacat on Jun 20, 10 at 6:06pm was helpful.

The Fodor's Moderator(I assume there is one...(apparently asleep at the wheel) let the responses go out of control degenerating into political and jingoist opinions - none of which had anything to do with experiences at the Austrian landmark.

Wake up Fodor's - No one wants to waste time going through rants to get to travel advice. I certainly have no intention of wasting my time again. One more off-track discussion and I will be a "former" Fodors/Community/Europe member.

logos999

A few history lessons and respect for the victims would help not only you. What is most scary are people that create a circus out of ignorance. They are even worse than the in comparison not that many (mostly foreign and other) Nazis found there. The Bavarian government tries its best, but thery're still coming. And yes if it were an "Austrian landmark", there would be less trouble for Bavaria.

It is just insulting, highly insulting what those "tourists" are doing there. Eyery "rant" is justified. If you really care, there are other places to go.

treplow

To get everybody calmed down, why don't you read my comment (the first posting of the 50-odd by now). That deals with what the forum is all about: Giving people travel advise.

PS: I'm not visiting Berchtesgaden as an American (or otherwise) tourist, but as a native from the area, and simply want to to enjoy the countryside and do my part to help others do the same. If things get too crowded at one place, there are lots of alternatives: On foot, the Hohe Goell or the Watzmann; by cable car or gondola lift: The Jenner, Untersberg, Predigtstuhl, Rauschberg etc.

If I want to make a poltical statement, I sure wouldn't pick Fodors.