I drive in Manhattan quite often and was wondering how different driving in London is? Is congestion in London much greater?

No not now because of the $15 or so congestion fee for cars to enter the busy inner city zone weekedays comparable to Manhattan

New York City officials look poised to follow suit with their own congestion fee as well it seems

Congestion in Central London is equivalent to downtown Manhattan at it's worst. And, unlike mid or uptown, there is no grid pattern to the streets. Most are one way and they meander all over the place.

I drive in Manhattan all the time with the usual traffic problems - and have been known to scare even the cab drivers. London is worse because of the complexity of the traffic patterns.

(We have rented a car in London several times - but just to head out of town for a road trip. Would never drive in the center when tube and cab are so easy - and tube usually faster.)

I'll just be headed in, parking the car for two days and then leaving for Manchester. This seemed like a better plan than taking public transportation in and out of the city since I already have the car.

the congestion fee applies basically to a small part of greater London - parking is a problem so be sure your hotel has parking or there is some parking lot nearby and then expect to pay tons to park.

London has no freeways slicing up the city thus you must take loaded roads full of lorries, buses, taxis, cars, etc. Studies have shown that traffic in London now moves slower than in the horse and buggy Victorian days. (Before congestion fee however, which has speeded things up a bit)

In a city where the North and South Circular roads are the main routes expect very slow going. Try to plot your escape on a weekend.

From my limited experience of driving in Manhattan, a couple of comments:

Central London these days is a great deal less congested overall than Manhattan. And whereas Manhattan really does seem to be more difficult to drive in (both for traffic density and ill-mannered fellow drivers) than, say, central Boston or what passes for a centre in Los Angeles, central London - with two provisos - has far better disciplined and sensible drivers than most other British cities. And than the London suburbs.

The HUGE proviso is that Central London, if you don't know it well, can be impossible for newcomers to navigate through. And, though other drivers' manners are generally good, we don't suffer fools at all, and expect every other driver to know what she's doing. Manners are good because our unfair reputation for grinding sloppy drivers into white powder and selling them in tiny bags for £100 an ounce stops fools, ditherers and the geographically challenged from getting onto our streets in the first place.

The lesser proviso is that, since the town itself is crowded, and the underground infrastructure has just evolved over centuries, any kind of construction creates road pinch-points (getting round the new Eurostar terminal has been a pain for four years, and look as if it's going to stay like that for another three), and someone's always digging roads up.

Which said, our public transport is overrated and just plain useless for many modern journeys. So not driving is often just not an option. If ninermike is thinking of driving here, he'd actually get better advice by telling us where and why he's contemplating it: under some circumstances, it might just be irrelevant that it's easier for him at home.

>>>I'll just be headed in, parking the car for two days and then leaving for Manchester.<<<

So you'll be paying two days hire charges for a parked car, congestion charges for driving in central London, and most likely car park fees as well. Then you will drive through busy London to get on one of the worst motorways in England for your trip to Manchester. :'(

Forgive me for saying so, but wouldn't it be better to take the tube or a taxi into London and the train to Manchester? Then, if you need to, hire a car there?

I'll be traveling with my family of four which would result in hight ticket costs for public transportation.

with Oyster cards tube trips cost 1.5 pounds a ride and caps off at a TravelCard price if you ride enough

The charges with a car could exceed $100 or much more including the rental fees for days you will not be using the car

You could use public transit to get from airport to hotel then use rental car to escape London

Public transport vs. a rental car in London:

Public transport: one charge basically

Rental Car: charge for the car, the petrol, possibly the insurance, the parking, the congesion charge..AND somebady has to DRIVE IT!

Dump the car, it's a liability. For a start, where are you planning on parking? You will spend hours driving round in circles looking for a space.

Several questions - where are you flying into? Is London in the middle of your trip, or at the begining. If flying into a London airport and spending the first two days in London then I would definitly take the tube in and back out to the airport and pick up the car then. If however, for reasons that cann't be changed, the London portion is in the middle of your trip and you would otherwise need two seperate car rentals, that's a different story.

Do you have a place to park it? If your hotel or where ever you are staying has parking that's also a different story.

Have you driven on the left frequently and recently? I would not want to pick up a car and then immediately drive in London if I hadn't already been driving in England for several days and was used to it. Each time I've driven in England it's taken a day or two to get comfortable.

I also drive frequently in Manhattan (and Boston) and would not drive in London for all the reasons mentioned unless not doing so would incur a lot of expense (like two seperate rentals), I knew in advance that I had a parking space, and I could get good directions to where I was going.

Some important details re ninermike's trip:

From his other threads -- the family is flying into MAN, spending a few days traveling around and south towards London - then want to drive into London for 2 days before driving back up to MAN to fly home. The total trip is 6 days.

On the other threads we did try to explain the "facts of life" . . . .

Oh - forgot to add about driving in London --

Besides being very expensive, if you are used to some sort of street grid as in most US cities, you will be really lost. Virtually no long straight roads (except for Oxford St but that's a special case), the names of most streets change every few blocks (of course, there are no "blocks" as you may be used to)

Thank you janisj - I looked at some of the other threads. All I can say is good luck to ninermike and his family. Apart from those two days in London they will be spending most of their time in the car.

Assuming London is in the middle of the trip - and that it would cost much more to drop it at an airport and then pick up another one several day later, the key points are:

Have you hotel give you the location of the nearest garage (and figure the cost of that and letting the car sit for several days before making a final decision on keeping it)

Get a VERY detailed driving map (not street map) for the entire area you'll be using (since most streets are one way and there are a bunch of places with no turns allowed)

they should perhaps avoid London all together and leave for the last few days of their trip after they have ditched the car, a big liability in London IMO

A couple of weeks ago I did suggest they drop London because it just doesn't fit in their itinerary.

nytraveler: Nope - London isn't in the middle of the trip. It is at the end just before they fly back from MAN. Here is the plan from earlier threads:

Sunday-Arrive at MAN Airport. Rent car/drive to Chester
Monday- Alton Towers
Tuesday-Stratford-upon-Avon
Wednesday-Cotswolds/Oxford
Thursday-Windsor. Drive to London that evening
Friday-London
Saturday-London, depart for MAN late afternoon
Sunday-Fly home

I've never driven in Manhatten

I've driven in several major UK cities and I have to say as a strager Lodon is a nightmare - not so much because of the traffic - it s so congested it goes quite slow but because of the sinaage.

I agree with flanner here (bloody hell that's a first) you have to know where you are going. Not just where you are heading.

Quite often you have to get into a certain lane way before you can see the sign for it.

The sign posts are quite often just for the next "village" so you need to know all points between where you start and finish.

IF that is IF you are determined to take your car into London, park it for two days, risking it being stolen / vandalised, paying for parking and the congestion charge then I have one suggestion.

It involves a coloured ribbon / balloon and cash.

When you get to the edge of London get out of the car and flag down a black cab. Ask the driver very nicely to drive to your location with the ribbon / balloon attached to the roof so you can keep in touch. Then follow the taxi to your location. This will be expensive but will not cause you your sanity.

IMHO the only personal transport to use in central London is a motorbike.