Bonnieboo

I'd like advice on driving in Italy and Germany.
I'm concerned about the high speeds on the autobahn in Germany and the narrow roads in Italy. I have booked a rental car from Hertz, picking it up in Frankfurt and returning in Rome. We have 18 days to cover the 2 countries.
Any advice/cautions on driving. (I drive the speed limit on the US highways but tha autobahns sound intimidating.
Has anyone used a GPS system in Italy and Germany?
Also would like advice on how to divide our time. At this point we plan to land in Frankfurt and go directly to Bacharach for the Rhine Cruise. We plan on staying i Bacharach for one night. Also plan to drive to Mosel area, then to Heidelberg, Romantic Road with a stay in Rothenberg, then on the Munich, Fussen.
I don't plan to go to Berlin due to time restraints and distance but could be persuaded otherwise. Also wondered about Cologne.
Then on to Salzburg. I'm concerned about driving through the mountains. Is the drive strenuous?
I've been cautioned about driving in Italy.
I plan to drive to Venice, Florence, Pisa, Nice/Monaco, then to Tuscany, then on to Rome where I'll turn in the rental car rather than keeping it in Rome.
Any suggestions on how to divide up our time for the 18 days?
I'm also interested in any suggestions of "must - sees" and "forget about it."
I'm interested in scenic, quaint areas. Not too interested in big cities, museums, and churches except for the obvious ones.
I'm leaving on 7/10 so all suggestions would be appreciated.

celticdreams

Can't help you with all of it, and have no real opinion on your itinerary at this point.

The Hertz GPS systems are great - you shouldn't have any problems in Germany or Italy. Just make sure to double check that the Italy map is in there (ask at the desk, you should be okay). I've always gotten the portable units from there. Very, very easy to program and to follow.

In Germany - the key to the autobahn is staying to the right. Only use the left lane when actively passing. If there are three lanes - stick to the middle - leave the trucks in the right lane. My single biggest piece of advice - when you see a bunch of brake lights ahead of you, and you start to hit the breaks - use your hazard lights. Traffic can build up quickly and you want to warn the people behind you as soon as you can. I find that drivers in Germany tend to break to a full stop much faster than we do here in the States. We sloooooow dooooownnnn. They STOP. Keep your eye on the cars in front of you. Again - stay to the right.

There are speed limits, contrary to what a lot of people believe, and in most places they're not bad - maybe 10-15 mph than you're used to - but you can easily learn to keep up with traffic. When you get to a place where you see the signs slowing traffic down (going from 130, 100, 90 etc....) pay attention - there are often cameras in those places. You will get a charge from Hertz if that happens, if not the actual ticket.

I would definitely recommend skipping Berlin for this trip. Save it for another time. Same for Cologne - I think you'd be heading too far north, only to back track to start heading to Italy.

Same driving rules theoretically apply in Italy. In my opinion, the farther south you go - the less rules there are - the lines between lanes tend to get blurred. You should be fine up to Rome. There are toll roads in Italy. If I'm by myself, I use my Visa card, if there are more than one of us, someone else can pull together the proper change for the toll.

I'll be right behind you - I leave for Germany on the 11th! Spending the first two nights in Heidelberg - can't wait. Let's both hope the weather improves.

Good luck!

ekellyga

I'm just bookmarking this post so I can respond more in a day or two. Previous posting well said. Autobahns are much like American interstates, except you will never find a German driver dawdling in the fast lane. The guy you see in the rear view mirror, out in the fast lane, usually in a Benz, BMW, or Volvo...is often coming at you at about 110 or 115 mph, and he assumes you will pass that truck and get the heck back into the right hand lane, so he won't slow down much as he approaches.

rkkwan

Most Americans don't know how to pass a vehicle on a freeway/autobahn. When you're passing the slower vehicle, your should be looking at the mirror. Once you see the front of that vehicle, immediately move back to the slow lane. You don't wonder, you don't wait.

You should in the left lane ONLY when passing another vehicle, not a second more.

If you find yourself in the left lane, saying going 150km/h passing a 90km/h truck, and there's a gap between that truck and the next one up. However, there's also a Porsche approaching at 250km/h behind you, flashing his headlights. What do you do?

You need to get in between those trucks, but you need to brake. Hard. Yes, you can go from 150km/h to 90km/h in no time, as long as you put your foot down on the brake pedal. Let the Porsche pass, then pull back into the left lane and floor your accelerator.

That's highway driving. Not a time to drink your coffee.

Or you can just go along with the trucks at 90km/h all day. Easy driving.

Clea

First off you repeated your "concern" on driving in Itay, Germany, and the autobahn. Fear while driving can cause all types of driving hazards, have you looked into trains or planes? Also Nice/Monaco is in France and is out of the way. IMO I would get a map and decide what you are really interested in seeing. With only 18 days and visiting 10 cities does not really give you much time in any place for more than a day and with that much distance to drive all you'll want to do is sleep before you take off again. Berlin and Cologne are both in the opposite direction.

hopscotch

Your driving habits will be influenced by the car you rent. More powerful cars are certainly the best in Europe. I've driven a Porsche 911S and a weaker Opel while working and traveling around Europe. Each was roadworthy at over 100 mph, the speed at which I drove every morning to work on the Autobahn.

As noted by other contributors, stay on the right except to pass. When you pass do it fast. Get back in the right lane ASAP. Whenever you want to pass and before you pull out check your sideview mirror. If you see anything back there and you are doing less than 200 kph just wait a minute. They are on you and up your tailpipe before you know it.

Keep your pedal as close to the floor as you are comfortable with. Initially you might be uncomfortable at 130 kph (80 mph) but you can work up to 200 kph (120+ mph) in a week or so. But you need a vehicle worthy of the road to do this.

Italy is a bit different than Germany. You will always have a tailgater. That's the nature of the Italian driver. Ignore him/her. Have good maps and study them before setting out. Highlight every town on your route. Every town. I hope you have a navigator, aka someone riding shotgun.

Have good maps showing parking structures in each city you plan to visit. Cars are worthless in major cities. Less than worthless, they are a millstone around your neck. Park it if you can. If you are only visiting major cities you are better off using trains to get around. I love European trains, especially night trains.

GSteed

Suggestion: Take a driving lesson.

hetismij

A further note - should you be in a traffic jam in Germany pull over to the right side of the right lane, or the left side of the left lane - emergency vehicle come through between the two rows of traffic. Also keep your eye out for motorcyclists who can be much faster than any car you are likely to see.

ira

Hi B,

Good advice above.

We stay off the interstates as much as possible, because it is tiring to be constantly alert to high-speed traffic.

Most of the time in Germany there will be speed limits of 110-130 kph.

Always use your turn signals when changing lanes.

Fuessen to Salzburg is not a difficult drive.

>I plan to drive to Venice, Florence, Pisa, Nice/Monaco, then to Tuscany, then on to Rome ...<

As well as Germany and Austria? You have 13 cities in 17 nights. Are you planning on getting out of the car?

ekellyga

celtic mentioned paying with Visa in Italy, on the autostada (autobahn)......sometimes you exit the autostrada and find an unattended "meterbox" that will take your ticket and calculate your toll. You then slide your visa card into the same slot where you put the toll ticket, and it goes right onto your visa card.

Cowboy1968

Driving the Rhine and Mosel valley can be time consuming. The Romantic Road is also a 2 lane highway.

If the Autobahn is getting too much on your nerves, there is usually a federal highway which parallels the motorway in not so much of a distance.

Since gas is getting more and more expensive, you find more and more people here driving 70-80 even when the motorway is unrestricted.

Driving on the Autobahn is really no rocket science.
Stay right, unless to pass (unless traffic is backed up).
You may stay left if there is continous traffic in the right hand lanes. So there is no rule that you gotta squeeze your car between two trucks (even if some Porsche or BMW drivers try to tell you that). Change to the right lane when you can, but not if you have to hit the brakes to fit in.
Even on a 6 lane motorway, the right lane is never just a "truck lane" (unless posted).

You will not see much police on the Autobahn. Speed limits and tailgating are controled from the sideline or from bridges. So don't expect a patrol car to stop you (most are unmarked anyway). If they want to stop you, they get in front of your car, and flash a "follow me" display (which will read "Bitte folgen" in German.
And they will usually guide you to the next roadside parking lot.

From my point of view, the only real issue you will have to care about is to get a toll sticker if you want to use the Autobahn in Austria.

P.S. German drivers tend to get really scared when they first encounter a 12 or more lane freeway in the States ;-)

IdyllicItaly

With regard to driving in Italy, you might consider giving up your car in Germany and using trains within Italy until you head for Tuscany. The trains in Italy are excellent and relatively inexpensive. You can check train fares at http://www.trenitalia.com/en/index.html. A shopping cart will show up next to most train trips as long as the date you specify is no further out than 60 days.

I don't find the narrow roads between towns difficult in Tuscany. What I find difficult are the very narrow streets in the medieval centers of some towns. Many of these towns prohibit you from entering the medieval centers by car. Believe me, they are doing you a favor.

Even without the prohibition, it's usually best to stop and park, and get out and walk. Otherwise, you can quickly find yourself in a street that continues to narrow and for which there is no turning back.

In the countryside of Tuscany and elsewhere in Italy, including Sicily, on hilly or mountainous roads, I've found guard rails where I've wanted them, too. That has surprised and pleased me.

ira

>Otherwise, you can quickly find yourself in a street that continues to narrow and for which there is no turning back.<

And the locals get quite a kick out of watching you back up.

L84SKY

I haven't used a GPS in Germany but I bought a ADAC map book and used it along with the fold out map that came with the car.

It's a pleasure to drive in Germany, the roads are well maintained and people are paying attention to the business of driving. You don't see other drivers toodling along talking on their cell phones and rummaging around in their backseats. Pay attention and you'll be fine.

The roads are well marked, once you get used to the signs. There should be no problem for you to find the places you've listed as they are popular destinations.
If you do a search here on Fodors you'll find a thread with a link for rules of the road in Germany.

BTilke

Much of the autobahn network around big cities like Cologne are under construction and you will find a lot of lane shifting (not cars shifting lanes but lane rerouting due to construction).
Remember, also, that a lot of the drivers on German highways aren't German. They're truckers from Eastern Europe, Russia, Italy, what have you. It's all too common for a truck will decide to pass another going 2 kph slower than he is, clogging up the lanes while he painfully inches past. They don't give a damn about annoying other drivers on the road.
We were driving through Germany last week--the A61 and A8 were a mess of construction and traffic delays (12 kilometer backups on the A8 around Stuttgart, for example).
FYI, make sure your car radio is set for programs to be interruprted by traffic bulletins. And don't be surprised to hear some English used in traffic reports...as in "zwolf kilometers stop und go."
You can also spot American expats/military types because of the smaller license plates to fit the smaller space on their cars brought over from the U.S. Most are perfectly decent drivers, but that guy in the black Mustang from Mike Shad Ford in Jacksonville, FL, darting in and out of lanes on the A6 last week was a total jerk!

nytraveler

If you are a competent, confident driver thre's no reason you should have trouble driving in europe. IMHO driving there is more enjoyabe than in the US since it is taken more seriuosly (it's much harder to get a license), drivers generally have a high standard and road signs are easier to follow.

That said - there are some differences.

Higway speeds are generally higher than in the US (80 in many places, no limit in others) and driver routinely exceed them. (So - I believe getting a car with little power/pickk up is a true risk.)

Left lanes are for passing ONLY. This is written in stone. You cannot sit in the left lane at 75 or 80 (in Germany in places you'll have people in big Merc and Porsches pulling up on you at 140 or more - honking and flashing if you're in the way.) If you're not comfortable at thos seeds - or you car won;t do them - stick to the right lane.

The quality of smaller roads is generally very good - and limits are lower. But - if youfind you're holding up a line of cars - pull over tnad let them pass (locals drive the roads everyday and are naturally comfortble going faster than you would be.)

Roads are usually really narrow only in the centers of old towns - when you will be going very slowly anyway. Just be sure you're up on your parallel parking skills - on both sides of the street since many are one way. And be sure you can park in a space very little larger than the car - you won't find enormous spots lie in the US. (One hint - if the road passage is really narrow fold in your mirrors - it will give you at least 6 inches of extra space.)

Frankly, the beau and I adore driving in europe - much prefer it to the US - due to the higher speeds and generally better skills of other drivers.

We have never used any GPS system - but depend on good maps (michelin for larger areas and download maps from mappy.com or viamichelin.com for town centers - since they show one-way streets that walking maps don;t).

Driving in the mountains is a challenge only if you run into trucks (get past them quickly if you;re going up - and don;t drive in front of them if you're going down).

We have done at least 20 road trips all over europe and never had an accident, or even close, or any sort of major problem.

Now - for the bad news. As for your itinerary - you have WAY too many places for 18 days - the trip you're describing (13 stops) is more like 5 or 6 weeks.

Suggest you draft a day by day itinerary - keeping in mind that every time you change cities you lose a full day (packing, checking out of hotel, driving to new city, finding hotel, checking in). For 18 days you should have no more than 5 hotel stops (we would probably do 4) although you can spend a couple of hours in a small town on the drive between 2 larger cities.

tomboy

Cruising (i.e., driving without passing) speed in the US seems to average 7 mph over the limit.If you drive at or below the speed limit on the US interstates, you should NOT attempt driving in the left lane of an autobahn AT ALL.
Reason: I would estimate cars in the US pass at a differential of 5-10 mph faster than the car being passed. In Germany, the differential seems to be 30 mph faster; passing is done quickly, within perhaps 500 feet, and then promptly returns to the right lane. None of this driving-3mph-faster-in-the-left-lane-while-passing-cars, or taking 2 miles to pass one car, or driving in the left lane with no cars in sight we see so often in the US. All in all, I think it's safer to drive on an autobahn than on a US interstate, because Euro-drivers seem more aware of the cars around them, and drive accordingly. If you'd feel uncomfortable seeing in your rear view mirror a Porsche closing on your bumper 50 mph faster than you're going, and then riding 1 foot from your bumper until you pull over, then don't get in the passing lane ever. The "slower" lanes will get you there fast enough. And, at least in Bavaria, the non-autobahns aren't a bad alternative.

Pegontheroad

Don't worry about driving on the Autobahns. Just do as the above posters have said and keep one eye ALWAYS on the rear view mirror.

I've driven on the Autobahns for years with nary a problem. I was nervous, however, about driving in Italy until I did it the last time I was there. It is actually fun, especially if you keep your sense of humor.

Don't be intimidated.

That itinerary looks a bit too full to me. When we travel, my traveling partner/sister/obsessive travel-planner always calculates driving time and restricts it to no more than three hours per day. Since I'm the driver, I appreciate that limitation, as I can get quite tired if I drive more than that. We also generaly stay at least two days in most places. Otherwise we're just too rushed.

If I were you, I would plan a day-by-day itinerary to see how much time you'll spend in each place. For a trip of about 18 days, we usually confine ourselves to one country. As Rick Steves says, assume you'll be back.

I'd skip Pisa, Cologne, and Salzburg, and definitely Berlin.

My experience in Austria may not be typical, but the last time I was there, I had to drive through many extremely long tunnels--some of them ten or more miles long. We went to both Salzburg and Vienna on that trip, and I don't recall much about the route, except that it was beautiful and filled with these tunnels.

misscarol

HI,

I can't comment on driving in Italy, other than the very northeast area of Tirol, but driving the autobahn was great. I am a female who lived in Germany, I was in my 50's at the time, and did pretty much the same itinerary in Germany. Bacharach, Heidelburg, the Romantishche strasse , and also through the Austrian Alps into the Tirol area of Italy. Aforementioned comments are correct, stay in the right lane, if you don't see anything behind pass in the middle lane. Cars really creep up in that rear view mirror. Sounds like a great itinerary-agree you should skip Berlin and Cologne this trip. Salzburg is awesome and the mountains just require you to pay attention.