janestuart

We plan to go to Canterbury on arrival then on to York for 2 or 3 days. Then we will progress to the Lake District for 3 or 4 days before going on to Wales for 4 or 5 days where we would love to take one of the narrow guage trains. We then plan to rent a cottage in the Cotswolds for a week, taking day trips to Stratford, Salisbury Plain, Bath, etc. We would then go to London before our return. Do we really need to drive? Driving in other parts of Europe has led to possible divorce and/or heart attack. Adding driving on the "wrong" side of the road adds another negative element. Would it be realistic to try to do all this by train? We love the trains in Europe.

janis

You plan on going to Canterbury "on arrival" On arrival where? LHR, LGW, Eurostar, or ????

But in general with the itinerary you have planned (which is great BTW) you really should have a car.

You don't need a car IN York - but to get to Castle Howard and most of the sites of N. Yorkshire your best/easiest way to get around is by car.

Unless you just want to hike from a rail head, you need a car in the Lakes.

To get around North Wales, you really need a car there.

And finally - the Cotswolds are not at all well served by rail. There are really only a few villages w/ train stations. And local buses are geared to local folks doing their shopping and for kids on school runs, not for visitors trying to get to tourist attractions. For a wek's cottage stay you really must have a car if you hope to see much.

You don't need nor want a car in London.

One option would be to do London at the front end of the trip. stay in London for a few days and do Canterbury as a day trip by train.

Then take the train to York. Pick up your rental car on the 2nd day in York so you can tour around the countryside.

Then on to the Lakes, Wales, and the Cotswolds. This would work best if you are flying out of LHR since much of the Cotswolds are an easy drive from that airport. You can drop the car at LHR.

If OTOH you are using LGW, then picking up a car immediately and driving to Canterbury makes sense. But I would drop the car at either LHR or Oxford on your return and take the train into London.

Morgana

Janis is right - you need a car, at least for part of this trip! Her advice about changing your itinerary around is inspired. I live in North Yorkshire, and will try and reassure you a little about driving on the left (not the WRONG) side of the road. The pace of driving in the north of England is much slower, relaxed and easier than in the south (believe me, I've lived and driven in both areas). Get a good road map, and also use www.theaa.co.uk which has a virtually idiot-proof routemaster that you can print out and take with you.
Motorways in the north are obviously still busy, but the network of routes mean you CAN always choose the slower back roads to get from A to B. The AA routemaster mentioned above lets you search for a non-motorway alternative to any journey.
Don't even THINK about visiting the Lakes without a car - you would miss so much and it would be almost impossible. The Lake District does have a motorway on its eastern edge. However, the roads within the Lakes are often narrow, twisty and sometimes very busy - in some ways easier for a nervous driver than thundering motorways.
Did you know there was a narrow gauge railway in the Lakes?
www.ravenglass-railway.co.uk gives details.
The city of York is fine without a car - very compact and most things within easy reach. Howver you won't want to miss Fountains Abbey etc close by (www.fountainsabbey.org.uk) and again a car will make your life SO much easier. Let me know if you want any more help about Yorkshire (where I live) and the Lakes - restaurants, walks, sites etc.
M

G_Hopper

With the exception of Wales, my wife and I have travelled to all the areas you mention using only trains, busses and the occasional taxi. My wife doesn't drive and I dislike to, so we choose not to add this stress to our holidays. Since you already know that driving in foreign places has caused you trouble, I suggest you be creative and get around by other means.
UK Public Transportation Info:
http://www.pti.org.uk/

The Cotswolds by Public Transportation:
http://www.the-cotswolds.org/top/eng...transport.html

More Cotswold travel info:
http://www.stratford-upon-avon.co.uk...lds/travel.htm

We learned from the tour guide that some people will book a Mad Max tour from Bath, if it goes to the village where they are staying in the Cotswolds, and depart the tour at their destination. Cheaper than a taxi and you get a tour guide:
http://www.madmax.abel.co.uk/

G_Hopper

Oh, and here's some pictures showing what we were able to do/see using only public transportation in April of 2004:

http://toaster.org/coppermine/index.php

walkinaround

i agree with most everything said so far. as ghopper proves, you do not NEED a car to visit these areas. however, you will be very limited. most of us visit the lake district to walk and a car offers the most flexibility to get to the trailheads where we like to walk.

furthermore, trains in UK can be very expensive and of varying levels of comfort and punctuality. Within the lake dist there is a well developed bus system. it would help to define what type of activities you wish to do and how exactly the days are filled. in most of these areas, you are ok if you take an organised bus tour. for example, this is how a lot of tourists see the cotswolds. this is not for me, however.

in short, trying to do this carless will require a lot more planning and flexibility to come up with a plan that is practical to do without a car (there will be comprimises!)

i do not disagree with morgana about the north vs the south (i live in the south but travel up north a fair bit). however, i want to caution you that depending on when and where you go, the traffic and stress of driving in the north may be even worse than down south. also, in europe, you can find a lot of stressful driving in even small cities (and even the smallest villages, for that matter).

if you question your ability to drive here, then i would not do it. sure, many people here will say that they've done it many times and it is no big deal and everyone has their close call driving in europe anecdote (almost a right of passage). but, in reality, a lot of people come here with complete ignorance of the traffic laws and signage...compounded by driving on the "wrong side" of the road, driving standard trans, tighter roads, higher speeds, many more road hazards. most people have no problems with it but many are just lucky.

ginny

Though the train service is good in the UK and a comfortable means of transportation, I would suggest that you give a bit more thought to driving, for at least some portions of this planned trip!!! For the Wales and Cotswolds portions, at least!!! Having a car would enable you to come and go as you please...using trains or other forms of public transportation means time restraints. I have been driving on our trips since 98 and don't find it anymore *stressful* then driving in the US. As long as you map out how to get to the places you want to visit in advance and give yourself plenty of time, you should be fine!!!

vcl

Take the train, take the bus, walk, splurge from time to time on a car and driver or cabs.
We have been traveling to the UK for 30 years and have never rented a car and haven't missed a whole lot of what we really wanted to see.
We tried a car in the Republic of Ireland once, for three days, and the highlight of the trip was the moment we returned the darned thing to the rental agency.
Have a wonderful trip.

walkinaround

if you do decide to drive, be sure to study the traffic laws and signs before you go. knowing the meaning of some important signs can save your and other people's lives.

janestuart

It is now almost a year later and our delayed plans are coming to fruition. I hope Janis is still out there. She is an amazing source of information. I don't know why it was suggested that we change our plans and progress from the Cotswolds to Wales and then to the Lake District rather than go in the other direction. However, for personal reasons, that is what we are doing.
We have a cottage reserved in the Cotswolds and a reservation in the Lake District. However, we are still looking for places in Wales, York and London.
We have scheduled 6 nights in Wales, Originally I thought we would find a place in Snowdonia and use that as a base. However, with further rearch I wondered if we should spend two days in the south of Wales around Cardiff.
We will be driving rather than taking trains. etc. And apologies to anyone who previously took offence to my referring to driving on the "wrong" side of the road. I had hoped that anyone would realize that by putting the word in quotes I was fully aware that it was only wrong to those of us who are not familiar with driving on the left side of the road.
We would really appreciate any recommendations anyone mught have about places to stay in Wales, York or London. We are trying to stay around $150.00 a night or about 90 pounds.
It is very important to us to hear a fine Welsh Choir while we are in Wales. We realize that this probably not that hard to do, but we have to know where to go. We also want to travel on a train in Snowdonia or?

schnauzer

Good decision to drive, take it easy and you will be fine. Why do you think the Brits have so many jokes/comedy skits about British Rail etc, no smoke without fire and all that. Plus huge $$ for tickets. Have a good time. For London accommodation check out Discountcityhotels.com on the internet, we have used them and they had some really good hotels with good deals in very good areas. Guess I was happy with them!!

Morgana

Hi, glad you are just about sorted.
Think it was me that gets a bit peeved about the 'wrong' side of the road, lol. The thing is, thousands of us British drive down to the Channel ports each year on the LEFT hand side of the road, cross the Channel and drive off on the RIGHT hand side of the road - with no problems whatsoever! We've done it dozens of times. So don't worry - you will be fine!
I live near York, so never stay there and am therefore no help with places to stay. However, as you have a car you have lots of freedom and don't HAVE to stay in the city. Lots of farms in the area do Bed and Breakfast, often at very good prices (with a great English breakfast too). A google will bring up lots of info, or the York Tourist board are very helpful. www.york-tourism.co.uk
Do get back to me if you have any York/Yorkshire type questions.
M

leonberger

If you don't mind staying 20 minutes or so outside of York, we loved our stay at "The Granary" in Stearsby last summer. Another fodors poster read my trip report (click on my name for the "four women" post) and chose "The Granary" and loved it as well.

Very welcoming hosts, every accommodation you could request, fresh picked raspberries for breakfast (yum!), only three rooms, in the quiet countryside - just perfect.

Contact Robert and Margot - I can't recommend them highly enough (and may go back there myself in May/June this year - I'm just not sure of the exact dates that I'll be in the area yet, or I'd already have booked another stay with them).

If you're going to be in London for a week (or close to it - 5-6 nights), an apartment might be an economical and logical choice.

Gayle

ben_haines_london

The following note was written in error, but may help others who are thinking of letting the train take the strain. They can see these places by train and bus, so long as they chose hotels near the bus station in Oxford (for busses to the Cotswolds, Stratford, Salisbury Plain, Bath, etc), Porthmadog or Caernavon (for Welsh castles by local rail), Oxenholme (for busses to the Lake District), and Victoria in London.

I think they should e-mail five tourist information offices, to tell each their plans, to ask each to post or e-mail them notes on B & B near the railway station (or near Oxford bus station), to ask the Oxford office for brochures by post for the Cotswolds, Stratford, Salisbury Plain, and Bath, to ask Oxenholme for a brochure on the Lakes, to ask Porthmadog and Caernavon for brochures on Great Little Trains of Wales and Castles of North Wales, and to ask Canterbury for a brochure on a day visit by train to their city. It is true that they can get much of the brochure information via Google, but that sets them to print out a good deal of paper, and does not pinpoint the b and b where you need it.
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected].
[email protected]

In London I have selected Victoria, as having a central position for London sights, busses to Oxford, and trains to Canterbury. I have on disc annotated notes from Fodors forum readers on hotels at various costs near Victoria, and shall gladly e mail it to any interested reader

hnhainesyahoo.co.uk
Ben Haines, London

janisj

I'm still around.

(Had to change my screen name a few months ago because my log on wouldn't work -- and no, I wasn't one of "the banned". Though I do thread close to that line now and then )

You have a great plan - and you will love staying in a cottage in the Cotswolds. Where is the cottage?

As for Wales - I prefer North Wales, but there is a ton to see in the south too. So staying a couple of days near Cardiff is a good idea. You can cover a lot of N Wales in 4 days. But also -- depending on where you Cotswold cottage is - it is a reasonable day trip from there over to Chepstow/Tintern/Caerphilly/Penhow.

janestuart

Thanks for all your suggestions. Is there public transporation from the Granary into York?
Our cottage is in Stow on the Wold

leonberger

I'm not sure about public transportion from the Granary to York, but Robert and Margot could surely answer that question. We had a car, and had no problem at all driving (following Robert's directins) to a car park fairly close to the city center, and walking from there - and this was in July.

I wasn't sure from your posting whether you'd have a car for that part of the trip or not. If you do, I think you'd do fine to drive to a Parking Lot near the city and take the bus from there - or do what we did and make your way into the city center and park there.

You'll also probably want a car if you go to Fountains Abbey or similar, and just for driving around the North Yorkshire Moors and the Dales, if possible.

Gayle

vcl

Google Welsh Male Choirs to find websites listing choirs and concerts. If South Wales is performing while you are there, I'd go out of my way to hear them.