I'm taking Italian and my Italian teacher told us in class that men wear coat and ties to dinner.

Is this true. We were planning to pack very lightly and bring comfortable clothes. My husband is dreading bringing a coat and tie if he has too.

Anyone know if this is really the norm? We'll be in Venice, Rome and Florence

Thanks.
Lisa

The Italian men tend to dress very well and it is not all unusual to see them in suit jacket and tie or in summer nice slacks and shirt. As a rule, they are more fashionable than the tourist crowd.

Some higher end restaurants call for jackets but there are many other places where you certainly do not need them.

I always find it confusing when people talk about nicer clothing and comfort as though they are mutually exclusive. I have always found that clothing that fits well is comfortable, no matter how casual or dressy.

It is very easy to pack light and still have nicer clothing on hand for dinners out. We do it all the time

Italy is no more dressy than most cities in the US. Where do you plan to eat? If you are eating at the handful of top end Italian restaurants then he'll want a coat and tie. If you're eating in nice neighborhood trattories and ristorantes, then a nice shirt and slacks will be fine.
In the summer, I can't think of a place we eat in Rome where I wouldn't feel OUT OF PLACE wearing a coat and tie.

On the other hand how warm will it be? If the evenings are a bit cool (as they often are) what is better than a sport coat to wear in the evenings -- one that he can easily take off inside if he wants? But he can forget the tie if he wants.

Hi L,

If you are planning on dinner at a reasonably nice place (one with tablecloths), a jacket is a good idea

>My husband is dreading bringing a coat and tie...<

As if that were going to fill up the suitcase.

Put a tie in a pocket of the jacket.

Wear the jacket.

I do agree with ira about keeping the tie in the pocket of the jacket. I can assure you he'll never need to wear it, and there's nothing quite like the line of a jacket with a tie bulging the pocket out.

Ira and I disagree on this point, but I will agree there's nothing "wrong" with wearing a jacket in a tablecloth restaurant (most places we eat at do have tablecloths). But if the weather is warm, he shouldn't be surprised if he's the ONLY one wearing one. Not that there's anything wrong with that if wearing one makes him feel special. From your post, that's clearly NOT the case, though.

Why not pack a linen jacket?

As always, Ira has a great suggestion!

Just as in the US, there are more casual restaurants and fancier restaurants. A lot depends on where you plan to dine, in terms of "dress code", whether a formal, specified dress code or otherwise.

One of the things I love about dining in Italy is that it's definitely more of "an occasion" than in the US. People are nicely groomed, and even if casually dressed, everything is clean, pressed, matching/coordinating. People enjoy taking their time eating and savoring each other's company and soaking up the atmosphere. All of that contributes to making dinner seem like more of an event.

Buon Viaggio,
BC

The teacher's advice, as given, is simply wrong.

Dress codes ("you must wear a jacket&quot are practically non-existent in Italy. What Italian men do is dress properly for dinner. Fashionably, cleanly, attractively. It's the thought, not the box-ticking, that counts.

Wearing a scruffy, loud or ill-fitting jacket or a tasteless tie breaks that unwritten rule (though to be honest, Italians expect most foreigners to do just that). Wearing sharply pressed trousers and shirt, tastefully combined and with proper shoes are a great deal more important.

Nothing worse than a necktie that has gotten creased because it was folded and stuffed into a small space.

Hi all,

I didn't say that he HAD to wear the jacket and/or tie, only that it wouldn't be difficult to bring them.

It is not that difficult to take off a jacket if it is inappropriate to the place and time.

If your husband is dreading bringing the jacket and tie, he can leave them at home and not look out of place in the majority of restuarants in the cities you mention. I can think of only a handful of places--La Pergola in Rome, Enoteca Pinchiorri in Florence ; the dining rooms of the grandest hotels--where a jacket and tie would be the norm and even there, not everyone would be so dressed. I am basing this on more than a dozen visits to the cities mentioned above.


Flanneruk has it right. More important than the actual jacket would be the overall impression: he (and you as well) should wear well tailored, coordinated clothing..so one appears to have expended an effort in getting dressed for the occasion of dining out.

In the end, however, it is personal taste.

Depends on the restaurant. If it's casual - no. It it's more upscale - yes many Italian men wear a jacket and tie - and there are quite a few places a man without at least a jacket might not feel comfortable.

Europeans in cities do tend to dress more formally (and generally better) than we do in the US.

NY Traveler:

Just out of curiosity, what restaurants in Florence other than the one I mentioned might make a jacket-less diner feel uncomfortable?

Harry's, and the restaurants in the luxe hotels come to mind. Most men had on jackets on my visits to the Savoy and my stay at the Excelsior. Also, when my Florentine friends take me to dinner, he always wears a sportcoat, something I never thought about until seeing this thread.

I agree about the grand hotels, as I wrote in my earlier post...

I used always to pack a jacket and advised that practice on a thread here (re: French restaurants), which got me a blistering response from a Fodors regular.

So I stopped packing a jacket...and never looked back.

In Rome and Venice and Tuscany last year, we noticed (in good, though never pretentious, places) that jackets, though not rare, were NOT the rule.

This was March -- a high-end sweater with dark wool trousers and black shoes was quite smart enough.

Hotel restaurants are kinda different, though.....

There are ways of looking appropriately upscale without a suit and tie - turtleneck and jacket, really nice sweater etc. But there are limits.

My concern is that a lot of people think polo shirt, jeans and sneakers is okay to wear to dinner everywhere. And it is in casuale places. But - if you're going more upscale you do need to be a teensy less informal than that.

It is a well-known fact that Italian waiters will check your jacket label, and if you are not wearing Battistoni, Brioni, Zegna, Corneliani, or Kiton, you will get the boot.

It never ceases to amaze me that Americans seem to think that for a man to put on a jacket and tie is the only way for him to look "dressed up" or "fashionable." I guess that's what guys named Gary who normally wear oversized pants, sweatshirts, and baseball caps fear as the alternative to being comfortable.

I would so much rather be out with a man who's got some tailored slacks, good leather shoes, and a nice cashmere sweater over a turtleneck or silk shirt than a guy who unwillingly slings a jacket and tie over his khakis in an attempt to look "dressed up."

But that's just me, I suppose.

And here I thought that those guys were named Buck. Live and learn. Very good, St. Cirq!