In reading what clothes travelers packed, I noted the women packed long pants (light and washable)- are shorts frowned upon in Italy and France...not short-shorts; like walking shorts. Thanks.

I would recommend you go all out and cut up fairly new blue jeans for your trip.

Just to be polite, cover the holes in the seat and legs with clean duct tape and trim the ragged edges on the legs so they are neat and uniform. One has to project a respectful image and not look sloppy overseas.

I'd also take one pair of "daisy dukes" for those hot, sulty late afternoons strolls when you want to torment those sissy foreign men and show them exactly what a real woman looks like.

Oh Lordy Degas

Somebody obviously didn't get any last night!

I've often frowned when seeing women in shorts; but then again have frequently smiled, and once in a while the vision has brought on a good laugh.

wow Degas, that wasn't necessary!
Didn't see too many shorts, not even walking shorts. Lots of skirts (just above or below the knee) and capri pants. I'd recommend skirts. But truly, you do see a bit of everything so wear whatever you are comfortable in. Note the churches will not let you in sometimes in shorts (men or women).

It's true that, aside from at the beach, Italians and French will rarely be seen in their home towns in shorts.

Couple of things to remember: firstly, you're on vacation and they're not, so you're more likely to be more casually dressed.

Secondly it's true that, in many European countries, particularly France and Italy, people tend to dress more formally, and with style rather than comfort in mind. Even Kate Moss struggles to look "cool" in shorts, and so they're generally not that popular. I exclude teenagers and children from this - kids look the same the world over.

Finally remember that unless your shorts are below the knee, then you won't be able to go into any of the wonderful churches in Italy.

Hi girl,

As noted, you wouldn't want to wear shorts in places of worship.

We noted on our recent trip to Italy that the only locals wearing shorts were in their teens.

naturegirl, my orginal post was a bit of humor. No offense intended.

Plenty of healthy, well adjusted people wear shorts in europe. IMHO, this forum is a bit anti-shorts. Many are afraid you will "look like a tourist" if you wear them.

However, many folks here think clean, well fitting shorts have a time and place in hot weather. Its a comfort over style thing. A few churches might turn you away, but I don't think God really cares.

I would not pack the shorts at this time of the year. Generally I would say; fine for hiking, or in a resort, but not in a city.

A lot of it depends on your comfort with "sticking out". I'd rather be uncomfortable in pants and look (and feel) like I belonged than stick out as a tourist, and thus be treated as one. Although sometimes that's a good thing...you can get away with more as a "stupid tourist".

Anyway,to each his own. As long as you don't make me wear your clothes you can wear whatever you like as far as I'm concerned.

I have noticed that when the French and other Europeans are on vacation in France, they often wear shorts outside large cities.

I live in Belgium (but am Dutch) and definitely; we wear shorts in summer, at home, on holiday on the coast, but never when going into town. I would feel really silly wearing shorts while shopping on the Avenue Louise in Brussels, for instance.

It more likely to be based on self-confidence and looks than respect or disrespect. You got long, slim legs? Then, by all means, go for it in the summer. If its real hot, then do it in big cities too. It would seem odd in the fall or winter.

I've never seen any fashion police try to arrest you for wearing shorts in Paris. The jails are not that large. Wait, I take that back. I think I saw degas almost get arrested in Paris last summer, but he pitched a real nasty hissy-fit and they let him go.

naturegirl, you asked about "Italy and France." I think, as one previous poster pointed out, that the critical factor is city vs country. If you are hiking in the countryside, shorts would be perfectly acceptable, but not seen so much on the Champs Elysee (although at the height of the tourist season you will see everything).

How sad that so many still judge people on such superficialities as the customary dress in their cultures.

Aw c'mon Rufus,

There are definitely times and places for different apparel. Wouldn't you wonder about a person who showed up for his wedding in a camo outfit if everyone else was wearing formal?

ira, I agree with your point about appropriate time and place for dress, but if I showed up in formal wear to a wedding and the groom cruised down the aisle in camo gear, I'd wonder what insert got omitted from my invitation!

I think you are going in Spring from your other posts. It will probably not be hot enough for shorts then, anyway. I would never take shorts to France in Spring (italy is no doubt hot enough, though). I think the idea is that shorts are fine for some places and not others. If you want to wear shorts for casual sightseeing at tourist attractions, etc., that's fine. You certainly see a lot of tourists wearing shorts in Paris. Countryside is another story and things may be more casual there, but I thought you were talking about Paris. You can't really say one thing about France as a whole. You shouldn't expect to wear shorts out to dinner or something.

I don't agree that dress is meaningless and superficial. I think it reflects a whole lot about someone's style and attitudes. If it meant nothing, everyone would be wearing potato sacks and there would be no fashion industry. What someone chooses to wear can say a lot about them IMO.

Christina, good point about the time of year. Whatever the weather, Italians won't take their jumpers, coats and thermal underwear off until at least June! My friend hit a heatwave at Easter in Capri, rushed into a shop to buy some shorts and had people literally laughing at her (particularly gaulling as Capri is a holiday resort).