Hello all - we leave in 7 days for Italy wanderings, then in Venice we'll get on a 700 passenger ship that will take us as far as Athens. Awfully excited as these are all spots DH and I have never been to. Trying of course to pack as light as possible. But: read the cruise documents more thoroughly last night and found a note that women must wear SKIRTS to gain admittance into Greek churches.
I tend to wear tailored black pants - some are black jeans but well shaped - and had figured that would work. Certainly know that shoulders are covered and knees, too, so no shorts even going with me. Leaving behind all my "Life is Good" t-shirts, so I'll be in nicely dressed overall. I'm worried now for Italy (Rome, Siena, Florence and Venice) also. Any advice for me, please? I'm retired from a job that required daily skirted suits for 25 years, and frankly: I like my pants!
All advice appreciated! (even humourous!)
Thanks - and I'm determined to join the ranks of trip-report posters on the return from this glorious trip!

You'll have no problems wearing trousers. I think they say "skirts" as opposed to shorts.

Can't address the part about Greece. But in Italy, you should be OK with slacks, even jeans if they're reasonable.

Again can't speak for Greece, but anything is fine for Italian churches as long as shoulders and knees are covered.

What you have to appreciate is that first of all the Churches in Italy are essentially Roman Catholic (explanation to follow) whereas those in Greece are Orthodox. The latter churches have a stricter (more respectful) dress code - knees and shoulders covered and preferably hair as well. In Italy such dress code is not necessarily followed except for those churches which might be considered "high" churches and St. Peters in Rome would fall into this category. Also certain churches are also considered Orthodox and this is particularly the case of St. Marks in Venice where the dress code is stricter than elsewhere.

There are no "high" or "low" Catholic churches. There is nothing Orthodox in Saint Marks except that it looks like a byzantine church (Greek cross and cupolas). It is a Catholic church.
The dress code is most enforced in places where there are lots of visitors.

Nochblad - thanks for mentioning the head covering - I am actually Catholic, so have become accustomed to more of a "business casual" approach to church, and really didn't want to drag a skirt to change into as I approached a church in Greece, but don't want to be barred, either! And I'll keep it in mind for St Mark's, also.
Lifeman: great point - say skirts, and avoid all shorts. Sadly, too many adults need that subterfuge!
Sounds like you're all in agreement - nice slacks with appropriate tops gets me everywhere. HUGE thanks - I love this Forum for quick, full responses! We are SO excited for this great trip!

nochblad is quite wrong.

ALL Italian Catholic churches are Catholic. St Mark's is just as Catholic as Poggibonsi parish church: the idea that Pope John XXIII (the last Pope to have been Patriarch of Venice)was Orthodox is bizarre. And, except for private audiences with the Pope, the official dress code for women is the same in all Italian churches: knees and arms covered. Which can happily include jeans, whatever state they're in: jeans just don't have the connotations in Italy Americans seem to give them. Last Sunday Mass I attended in Italy, I'd say a third of the congregation was in jeans

No-one "prefers" women's hair to be covered anywhere (has nochblad been to Mass in St Peter's lately?): some women wear hats or mantillas to very formal services, or to weddings - but, except for wilfully fogeyish Catholics, never for visiting any church or for ordinary services.

The Greek Orthodox church is different. In out of the way small churches, there's no code. Some churches attached to monasteries do want women to wear quite long skirts, and their monks sometimes get upset about women in trousers. For most tourist visits, follow the Italian rules - but the sensible thing, if you're visiting places like Meteora or Dafni, is to have a lightweight mid-calf skirt available if required.

I live in Greece & have never seen anyone cover their hair to go to church!
Generally churches are ok with trousers, it's mainly monasteries that are stricter. I actually went in the church attached to one recently where trousers on ladies weren't ok, but they said nothing to a man in shorts! The rules do vary slightly with each place. Don't worry too much about it though, if you do go to one that is stricter they have sarong type things for you to put over the top of your trousers while you enter the monastery or church.

flanneruk - have you been to St. Marks? Also I believe that St. Peters requests a dress code somewhat different to Poggibonsi.

Maybe I am a bit old fashioned in this respect but I feel that just as you do not wear flip flops in certain places - e.g. Via Montepoleone in Milan or Via Condotti in Rome you should dress in a certain way in certain churches which I have referred to as "high" churches. If you understand what I mean then you understand, if not ....

Nochblad, I think your use of the term 'High Church' is what's confusing the issue - High and Low Church really relates to Anglican churches and describes how close to Rome they like to sit (High Church being Catholic in pretty much all but name). It's not a Catholic term.

Perhaps you mean 'Important' churches, such as Cathedrals? Personally, I don't see why one Church is more important than any other. More noteworthy Churches such as St Marks and St Peters have stricter dress codes because they have the resources to enforce them, and God forbid that the Pope should see anyone's knees.

Kate - you are right and that is why I used apostrophes. But even with RC churches it is a bit like the judge who says I know it when I see it ... Certain churches - important or otherwise - fall into this category and others not. It's almost one of those things - if you know you know but if you don't know no matter what you do you will always be spotted by those in the know. This seems a bit like a phrase said by Rumsfeld but at the end of the day it all boils down to sensitivity.

May I suggest you pack a dark solid color synthetic pashmina scarf for your trip? It will cover knees, shoulders and heads as needed, and doubles nicely as a blanket on the plane or train, a wrap for cool evenings, and in a pinch, as a picnic blanket or bath wrap, and wine bottle wrap for the trip home. Major airports usually have a shop where you can get a slightly oversized one for about $10, or pick up a slightly smaller one at your local Target store. It is the one item I would absolutely NEVER travel without! Have a wonderful trip!

Flanneruk: I'm savoring on my tongue the delightful "willfully fogeyish" Catholics! Even my 94 yr old aunt isn't that, yet I know some in their 50's who are - thank you for the smile I'm currently wearing at your so-apt description!! (luckily, I save my willfulness for other parts of life, so I should be fine!)
The idea that some of the monasteries will want skirts make great sense to me - although the idea of wrapping my mid-section with a faux "skirt" seems odd, but I will definitely take the Pashmina with me off-ship on days where this may occur.
We're dreadfully excited about this trip, and assume we'll come home already planning a return on our own after this great overview!
Thanks all! Jo Ann

The monasteries at Meteora required skirts to enter, and they had some to lend to women at the gate.

Greece: I wore pants in the churches all over Greece but my husband was denied entrance to one when he was wearing shorts. There often was woman standing by the church door to check on appropriate dress.
Italy:A male friend of ours was denied entrance to the bascilica in Assisi as he was wearing shorts.

I'm still amazed and perplexed at the attitude of visitors about churches in other countries. In Russia, some American men tried to enter in "wife beaters", baseball caps and flip flops. In Greece, women saw no problem with thigh huggers or low-cut blouses or no-shoulder attire.

This is a no-brainer, folks. I carried a pair of long pants and my wife had a thin shawl for shoulders and/or legs.

The confusion is usually understood if one realizes that Catholic churches in the US are so desperate for attendees that people routinely enter wearing absolutely anything. A friend of mine has a house in a beach resort in CT and she says that young girls routinely come to mass on their way to the beach in their bikinis with a small wrap around the hips and flip flops or bare feet. The priest put up a sign requesting that midriffs be covered but it is widely ignored.

It's a different culture. the problem is the people visiting Italy that don't accept that Italy IS a different culture and don;t want to adapt. Also - some of the orthodox churches in Greece are VERY strict and do require that women wear long skirts - no pants and certainly no short skirts or bare bosoms/arms.

jo_ann,
You can enter a Greek church dressed modestly with a semicasual dress or even pants. Where the problem may be is if you attempt to enter a monastery. There usually they may have a skirt to provide you, but to be safe, bring a skirt so to replace your shorts/short skirt.
yannis

I have worn some variety of pants (not shorts) to every church I visited in my trips to Italy and Greece, with one exception -- the monasteries at Meteora. I read ahead of time that you must wear a skirt, so I took a "broomstick" skirt that would look nice even if it were wrinkled. I wore my skirt, while others had to accept the sarongs or wrap skirts provided at the door to wear over their pants or shorts before being allowed to enter. I have never used a head covering of any variety or, on the opposite end, worn flip-flops.

The biggest problem I ever encountered with what someone was wearing occurred at the Hofbrauhaus in Munich. While waiting for the rest of my party to arrive, I saw a man being refused entrance, ostensibly because he was wearing shorts! He became very agressive, was thrown to the ground by the security and physically held until the Polizei arrived to take him away.