Don't kill me - 88 days in Paris Airbnb?
Sep 5th, 2015, 07:07 PM
#82
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<i>who wants to visit a city and have no locals left in the neighborhoods that we can pretend to live like?</i>
This is happening now in the Marais as its number of residents continues to drop.
Adrian Leeds has stated, I believe in a post here on Fodor's, that she has sold all of her Paris properties.
This is happening now in the Marais as its number of residents continues to drop.
Adrian Leeds has stated, I believe in a post here on Fodor's, that she has sold all of her Paris properties.
Sep 5th, 2015, 08:50 PM
#83
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<who wants to visit a city and have no locals left in the neighborhoods that we can pretend to live like?>
Sounds like Jean Baudrillard's "simulacra" to me. The post-modern/late-capitalism moment does't need "reality" when it has simulations. Academics (particularly the French) have been observing this for years.
It seems to me there are emotional investments on all sides of the issue!
The only thing I can't really work out is why people seem to care so much here on Fodors?
Those who are concerned about this from an urban planning POV I get , we are having the same debate here in SF about air bnb pushing out local tenants and driving up rents. As someone who rents out their primary residence periodically, I understand the difference between the part-time "share" economy model, and an entirely commercial transaction, like renting apartments full-time which removes them from the regular rental pool.
However, most of the debate here on Fodor's seems to be less about urban planning and more about emotion and being heard. As I see it people are giving "very cautious" vs very "relaxed advice". I don't understand why some Fodorites can't see these are just different traveling styles, neither is right or wrong and each comes with advantages and disadvantages. They are merely opinions offered to others.
After all, just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean you weren't heard,
As FMTours said <I'm not going to get involved in blaming people or pointing fingers. Just not my thing.> Though, I have to say MmePerdu is on the money to point out that Adrian Leeds, a chief seller of the kind of "French similacra" mentioned above, will no doubt be making a second and third profit either way.
Sounds like Jean Baudrillard's "simulacra" to me. The post-modern/late-capitalism moment does't need "reality" when it has simulations. Academics (particularly the French) have been observing this for years.
It seems to me there are emotional investments on all sides of the issue!
The only thing I can't really work out is why people seem to care so much here on Fodors?
Those who are concerned about this from an urban planning POV I get , we are having the same debate here in SF about air bnb pushing out local tenants and driving up rents. As someone who rents out their primary residence periodically, I understand the difference between the part-time "share" economy model, and an entirely commercial transaction, like renting apartments full-time which removes them from the regular rental pool.
However, most of the debate here on Fodor's seems to be less about urban planning and more about emotion and being heard. As I see it people are giving "very cautious" vs very "relaxed advice". I don't understand why some Fodorites can't see these are just different traveling styles, neither is right or wrong and each comes with advantages and disadvantages. They are merely opinions offered to others.
After all, just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean you weren't heard,
As FMTours said <I'm not going to get involved in blaming people or pointing fingers. Just not my thing.> Though, I have to say MmePerdu is on the money to point out that Adrian Leeds, a chief seller of the kind of "French similacra" mentioned above, will no doubt be making a second and third profit either way.
Sep 5th, 2015, 09:14 PM
#84
There's a village in Spain, maybe more than one and more than Spain, that was abandoned and later bought by tourism developers who made vacation rentals out of the entire village. No locals whatever.
Maybe that's Leeds' (and others) model for Paris. All these nice medieval to 19th century buildings just going to waste with ordinary people living in them when we could turn Paris into Paris-land. No pesky laws to obey, maybe costumes available for those who'd like to milk a goat, kitchen waste, and god knows what, thrown out upper story windows onto faux peasants for fun...you get the idea. It could be all-inclusive so you don't actually have to cook the stuff you pretend to buy at the market - on & on. The possibilities are endless. And I suspect it's along the lines of what Parisians fear most, maybe excluding the goats.
Maybe that's Leeds' (and others) model for Paris. All these nice medieval to 19th century buildings just going to waste with ordinary people living in them when we could turn Paris into Paris-land. No pesky laws to obey, maybe costumes available for those who'd like to milk a goat, kitchen waste, and god knows what, thrown out upper story windows onto faux peasants for fun...you get the idea. It could be all-inclusive so you don't actually have to cook the stuff you pretend to buy at the market - on & on. The possibilities are endless. And I suspect it's along the lines of what Parisians fear most, maybe excluding the goats.
Sep 6th, 2015, 08:29 AM
#90
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Ca m'énerve !!
... les macarons, mais bon parait qu'ils sont bons...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vysQNYuyDtM
... les macarons, mais bon parait qu'ils sont bons...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vysQNYuyDtM
Sep 6th, 2015, 10:28 AM
#91
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I'm aware of the risks. I've had some dicey apartment rentals myself, which is why I no longer rent from sites that are just listing services for owners. And I know that there's a great risk of running up against the laws in New York and Paris.
The last time I was in Paris, I thought of renting some sort of apartment, because we were there for almost a week, and eating out for every meal gets old after a while. However, I was looking only at apartments managed by hotels, or in all-apartment structures. In the end I chose a hotel, though.
I hesitate to rent an apartment in a country in whose language I'm not fluent. I can get along in French after a fashion, but if I had some sort of emergency in the middle of the night, I'd like to have the help of the front desk of a hotel.
The last time I was in Paris, I thought of renting some sort of apartment, because we were there for almost a week, and eating out for every meal gets old after a while. However, I was looking only at apartments managed by hotels, or in all-apartment structures. In the end I chose a hotel, though.
I hesitate to rent an apartment in a country in whose language I'm not fluent. I can get along in French after a fashion, but if I had some sort of emergency in the middle of the night, I'd like to have the help of the front desk of a hotel.
Sep 6th, 2015, 10:50 PM
#92
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Adrian Leeds was smart enough to figure out that her US clients wanted their little Paris hideaways to have all the comforts of their own homes, and that the average Parisian apartment would be completely unacceptable unless renovated to US standards with a large dose of "Parisian atmosphere". Since her clients did not live in Paris, they rented out their properties. She was very successful and became the model for other agencies hoping to attract the lucrative Anglophone market. No need to demonize her for giving clients what they want and making money doing it.
On the other hand we know people who bought property from her and ended up selling because they were not allowed to rent due to problems with neighbors. To say the least they felt deceived by the rosy picture painted by AL, but there was nothing they could do about it. This agency sells real estate and lists rental properties, which is not illegal and is not a crime. If AL is guilty of anything it is a lack of transparency.
On the other hand we know people who bought property from her and ended up selling because they were not allowed to rent due to problems with neighbors. To say the least they felt deceived by the rosy picture painted by AL, but there was nothing they could do about it. This agency sells real estate and lists rental properties, which is not illegal and is not a crime. If AL is guilty of anything it is a lack of transparency.
Sep 7th, 2015, 05:37 AM
#93
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Some of this feels almost like anti-tourist digs on a tourism website. Understandable, and I used to live in Santa Fe so I kind of know how it is with the "I was here first" thing, but still.
If airbnb, vrbo, whoever hosts pay fair share of taxes, which should be regulated and enforced, I don't see the huge difference in renting apartments vs converting apartment buildings to luxury hotels.
If airbnb, vrbo, whoever hosts pay fair share of taxes, which should be regulated and enforced, I don't see the huge difference in renting apartments vs converting apartment buildings to luxury hotels.
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Aug 8th, 2015 09:00 AM
