I can't figure out what I would be kidding about.

Alan - perhaps it is only complicated to me. Why should it be cheaper through an ATM?
I followed up with a call to my bank and they could only tell me that the buy for a € was 1.6044 today and that the sell for a € was 1.4784. The said that the price was the same at the bank or through the foreign ATM except for the addition of a $3 ATM charge. I am awaiting a follow-up email.
They added that it is identical with all the major Canadian banks. Do you know something different?

Speaking as someone who does a lot of travel planning for others as an enjoyable sideline to my other full-time business, I find this post to be absolutely silly - or at least very poorly worded. And I am one who always arrives in Europe with enough local currency on hand to get me through the first day.

Shock? What kind of travel planner has clients who arrive in Europe and go into a tizzy over the exchange rate? I can see having clients - I do - who are total neophytes about Europe, but that's why they're PAYING me - so there AREN'T any shocks. Just silliness.

The post isn't directed at people with travel planners, or brilliant, seasoned, competent travelers like most of us are. If you follow this thread you'll see there are others who might need this advice.

robjame, it's not identical for Toronto-Dominion. I really doubt it is identical for Royal either. The only way to tell, though, is to look at your past withdrawals, see what rate you were charged on that date, and compare that to the interbank rate on that date. I've done this, and the rate to buy Euros at Toronto-Dominion and the rate to get Euros from the ATM are quite different.

gb944 . If I decide to follow a thread I actually follow it. It's not my fodorstyle to open it, and click on jump to last post or reply to last post.

Travmimi, I did get some Euro's before leaving to Italy on a trip last year, and you are 100 percent correct, not to get into the ugly details everything went wrong we landed in Milan nearly 25 hours later and it was 2:30 am no one willing to help us thank God I had Euros to take a cab , give an attendant a payoff to get a hotel room honest! We were so exhasted it took the edge off .We felt good about having currency on us when we landed .

My bank gives me the interbank rate and doesn't charge a Forex fee if I use an ATM to get the foreign currency.

If I get Forex over the counter then I'm charged a fee for doing so as it's more work for them.

However some banks charge the same fee whichever way you get the Forex. In that case I'd look for a different bank.

Robjame, when you call your bank for a quote on a currency, you are quoted a RETAIL rate. When you use an ATM you are getting an "interbank rate" (WHOLESALE RATE) plus any markup and fee your bank charges. See this website (today's interbank rate is 1.54885 for the Canadian $. The average for the rates you were quoted is 1.5414 which may differ because of the time of quote.):

http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic

robjame - The rate your bank is listing (1.60)is more than the actual current rate (1.54). In the US, there are often other fees attached. Maybe Royal doesn't have any hidden foreign currency transaction fees and it appears their exchange is decent compared to many other banks (notice I said appears). For current exchange rates - www.oanda.com

Thank you kybourbon, jsmith and WillTravel
I think I understand that. The difficulty is getting any Cdn bank to tell me what percentage they add to the interbank rate for:
1. bank withdrals,
2.ATM withdrawls and
3.Visa purchases
There seems to be an entitled mystery to the banking system that is hard to penetrate.
I can find published rates for US banks but not Cdn. I will keep asking until they answer.

I have gotten contradictory answers to all of those, so I sympathize with your efforts.

To add a further level of complications, in respect to buying Euros, TD has told me that they had to exchange Canadian dollars to US dollars and US dollars to Euros, charging something for each exchange cycle - thus the high rate.

If you are a Canadian in Vancouver, I recommend this place to buy currency in advance:
http://www.vbce.info/index.cfm?fuseaction=FAQ

I'm definitely with the "have some euros with you" group of travelers, and I really don't care if it costs a little extra for the convenience. I'm usually jetlagged, loaded down,and hurrying to get a train or plane for somewhere. I've also had some rather nasty experiences with credit cards getting rejected (once while checking out of my Paris hotel EARLY in the AM)-so I also take several of those plus ATM
card. Plus some Amex Travelers checks that I've been hanging on to for many years and never use!

Of course I've never had "sticker shock" at the exchange rate, as I keep up with it before taking a trip. However, I think many of you are being a little unfair (and a little mean?) to TravMimi. There may be travel neophytes on this board who need suggestions like this. I hope they aren't turned off by the comments of how stupid they must be not to know the exchange rate, how to use an ATM machine, etc., etc.!

Sue4...how true. It's just not in me to question someones travel personality or style. And I would never criticize their worries or concerns. Evidence of all the different personalities are in this thread. Maybe some people think every post is somehow directed at them personally.

I spoke to a Royal Bank representative regarding conversion fees on ATM withdrawals. He insisted that When US banks state a percentage they are talking about the amount that they add to the interbank rate. He said that the actual rate is set by the bank associated with the particular ATM in Europe. These, he said, vary and there is no way to tell how much they are above the exchange rate at time of ATM use. Sound reasonable?

&quot;<i>Sound reasonable</i>&quot; Doesn't make sense to me. Sounds like the Royal Bank's agent is making up things as he/she goes along.

Seems to me the European bank is merely dealing in &euro; - it wouldn't be until the NA banking system had to deal w/ the transaction that the rates would be set.

janis -I see your point and will go after them again tomorrow. He had me convinced. LOL

robjame, I am attempting to get the same information as you and am having the same problems. I forsee another strengthening of the Euro and am considering buying some Euros now for my trip in April. I will let you know if I get anywhere!

Hey you are on vacation and it is only money so don't worry be happy!

&quot;...I forsee another strengthening of the Euro...&quot;

I'm in! Buy 100,000 at market!