Does travel influence your politics?
Jul 9th, 2004, 09:20 AM
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Does travel influence your politics?
A while back, someone asked if a person's politics influenced his/her travel decisions. How about the converse?
My sense from this board is that travel engenders a more global perspective, which seemingly shapes how one thinks nationally.
My sense from this board is that travel engenders a more global perspective, which seemingly shapes how one thinks nationally.
Jul 9th, 2004, 10:26 AM
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It is, unfortunately, very easy to travel world wide and not have a change in perspective. I've have seen this repeatedly in associates of mine who not only have traveled extensively, but have, in many cases, actually LIVED in the other countries for as long as three years or more.
It seems to me that if travelers are actually willing and able to interact with others, and by that I do not mean sharing a cafe/restaurant/railroad compartment with them, but actually interacting, conversing, and eliciting their opinions on issues, then it seems likely there might be some resulting changes in perspective and opinions.
But, some people cannot/refuse to accept the fact that we do not exist in a vacuum and that there are many other peoples, and nations, who should be blessed by "God" as well as our own.
It seems to me that if travelers are actually willing and able to interact with others, and by that I do not mean sharing a cafe/restaurant/railroad compartment with them, but actually interacting, conversing, and eliciting their opinions on issues, then it seems likely there might be some resulting changes in perspective and opinions.
But, some people cannot/refuse to accept the fact that we do not exist in a vacuum and that there are many other peoples, and nations, who should be blessed by "God" as well as our own.
Jul 9th, 2004, 10:28 AM
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Hi
I would like to agree with your optimistic viewpoint but I can't.
It simply depends on the traveler,that is, on the person.
If you read responses to any questions here, you see a wide range of opinions and perspectives.
Some people travel and come home and complain about the differences between the places they visited and what they're used to at home. Other people come home and are thrilled by those same differences. Some travelers feel that because they love their own country AND own government so much, everyone else in the world ought to agree. Others recognize that strangers may embrace the individual Yank or Brit or whomever and still disagree vehemently with their governments.
What we all might agree on I hope is that no generalization necessarily applies to the individual.
I would like to agree with your optimistic viewpoint but I can't.
It simply depends on the traveler,that is, on the person.
If you read responses to any questions here, you see a wide range of opinions and perspectives.
Some people travel and come home and complain about the differences between the places they visited and what they're used to at home. Other people come home and are thrilled by those same differences. Some travelers feel that because they love their own country AND own government so much, everyone else in the world ought to agree. Others recognize that strangers may embrace the individual Yank or Brit or whomever and still disagree vehemently with their governments.
What we all might agree on I hope is that no generalization necessarily applies to the individual.
Jul 9th, 2004, 11:07 AM
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no, but I think it could
I think it is much more likely make people aware of there own politics.
Recently most places I have been seem re-enforce my own politics. but I beleive that seeing different political views in different counties is very healthy - it would be nice is more people IN politics would do it.
I think it is much more likely make people aware of there own politics.
Recently most places I have been seem re-enforce my own politics. but I beleive that seeing different political views in different counties is very healthy - it would be nice is more people IN politics would do it.
Jul 9th, 2004, 11:54 AM
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Believe me, when those people "in politics" are sent a very clear message about taking on a different perspective they'll do so..but until, and if, that "message" ever arrives, well....you know the answer.
Jul 9th, 2004, 12:10 PM
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Well, I do agree that it depends on the person. I would say this is the case with most if not all issues. However, I still find it frustrating when people I know come back from somewhere and do nothing but complain about how other countries are so far behind America. Yes, economically we are farther ahead then most places, but we also need more things to make us happy. I have just returned from a year of living in Prague, and before I went I never thought American politics were so heavily monitored overseas, but the truth is, America's actions affect the world in ways you can't even begin to consider without really integrating into another culture/society. So ultimatly, I do believe a person's politics can change, and if they don't even a little, I'd say you're either not seeing the whole picture clearly, or not doing all you can to truly understand the people and the places you visit.
Jul 9th, 2004, 12:47 PM
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I don't know if I agree with that...there's more to politics than just what goes on in our homeland. Of course I've learned to think more globally, but I've also learned to appreciate where I'm from a lot more. To start, I never really cared to travel the states. I've always preferred to travel internationally, but now I'm trying to find the time to do it here. There's so much america has to offer. Also, although I love Europe, for example, I still think America really is the land of opportunity, and I'd have to think long and hard before I settled anywhere else again on a permanent level. I really only see myself raising my children here...
Jul 9th, 2004, 07:14 PM
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Have you read Rick Steves' essay "Innocents Abroad: How Travel Changed my Perspective and Politics"? It's at:
http://www.ricksteves.com/news/0311/innocents.htm
Here are the concluding paragraphs:
By connecting me with so many people, travel has heightened my concern for people issues. It hasn't given me any easy solutions. But it has shown me that the people running our government have a bigger impact on the lives of the poor overseas than they do on my own life. It's left me knowing suffering across the sea is as real as suffering across the street. I've learned to treasure -- rather than fear -- the world's rich diversity. It's clear to me that people around the world are inclined to like Americans. And I believe that America -- with all its power, wisdom and goodness -- can do a better job of making our world a better place.
I will promote thoughtful travel with more gusto than ever because of my belief that if Americans had to travel before they could vote, our country would fit better into this ever smaller planet.
http://www.ricksteves.com/news/0311/innocents.htm
Here are the concluding paragraphs:
By connecting me with so many people, travel has heightened my concern for people issues. It hasn't given me any easy solutions. But it has shown me that the people running our government have a bigger impact on the lives of the poor overseas than they do on my own life. It's left me knowing suffering across the sea is as real as suffering across the street. I've learned to treasure -- rather than fear -- the world's rich diversity. It's clear to me that people around the world are inclined to like Americans. And I believe that America -- with all its power, wisdom and goodness -- can do a better job of making our world a better place.
I will promote thoughtful travel with more gusto than ever because of my belief that if Americans had to travel before they could vote, our country would fit better into this ever smaller planet.
Jul 9th, 2004, 09:11 PM
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I think traveling internationally has made me turn a more critical/cynical eye towards politics here at home in the US - or maybe I've just noticed it more in the past..oh, 3 1/2 years. But I've always enjoyed and embraced other cultures, travel has merely enhanced that. I don't think travel automatically gives everyone a broader perspective though. I work with someone who goes somewhere every 6 months and she still returns as xenophobic as she was before.
Jul 9th, 2004, 10:20 PM
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"...I still think America really is the land of opportunity..."
Change "the" to "a" and I'll agree. But here's news: there are three other countries, all English-speaking, all with similar institutions and lifestyles, offering a quality of life and personal opportunities at least equal to America's. Can I mention Canada, Australia and New Zealand?
Travel has helped me to discard some of the simplistic generalisations we apply to other countries when our only knowledge of them is second-hand, but I've seen nothing to make me question my political views.
Change "the" to "a" and I'll agree. But here's news: there are three other countries, all English-speaking, all with similar institutions and lifestyles, offering a quality of life and personal opportunities at least equal to America's. Can I mention Canada, Australia and New Zealand?
Travel has helped me to discard some of the simplistic generalisations we apply to other countries when our only knowledge of them is second-hand, but I've seen nothing to make me question my political views.
Jul 9th, 2004, 11:57 PM
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Like you, I have gathered that travel engenders a more global perspective, which seemingly shapes how one thinks nationally. For me, a Londoner, lessons have been that then world is varied, and we should enjoy and encourage this, and that many people just like me live a poorer life for no fault of their own: they were born with the wrong passport. I do mean a poorer life. I know that huge luxury does not lead to huge pleasure, and owning two cars does not confer happiness. But decent housing, food, health care, and education give the basis for a happier (and longer) life than subsistence farming may lead to, or the life of a bank clerk in India, or even a new university degree in Serbia or Romania. This of course affects my vote on British foreign policies.
It affects my vote on domestic policies, too. Mrs Thatcher told us that widely varied incomes in a competitive society would lead to an overall happier country. Not so. We should reward production, but should not set up such a rich to poor gap that we, the rich, are depressed by the meanness of our society and threatened by the growth of an excluded class for whom indolence and theft have have become natural.
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Jul 10th, 2004, 04:24 AM
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From Ben Haines:
"(We) should not set up such a rich to poor gap that we, the rich, are depressed by the meanness of our society and threatened by the growth of an excluded class for whom indolence and theft have have become natural."
Wise words, indeed. This is something that travel has illustrated to me in spades, but one need not travel far at all to find examples.
"(We) should not set up such a rich to poor gap that we, the rich, are depressed by the meanness of our society and threatened by the growth of an excluded class for whom indolence and theft have have become natural."
Wise words, indeed. This is something that travel has illustrated to me in spades, but one need not travel far at all to find examples.
Jul 10th, 2004, 07:11 AM
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I think some parts of travel can give you a new perspective. When we visited the Peace Memorial in Caen, we saw views of the events leading to WWII, and events after the war, that differed markedly from what we had learned in American public schools. Of course, one does not have to travel to find such information, but if one does travel, it is, in a sense, forced upon one.
Jul 10th, 2004, 07:13 AM
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Neil and Mgm
here is an interesting website ranking the the quaility of life in world cities
http://www.mercerhr.com/pressrelease...ontent/1128760
it ranks 2 swiss cities as #1 and vancuver as #3
no US city is in the top 10
Atlanta ranked as the worst US city
here is an interesting website ranking the the quaility of life in world cities
http://www.mercerhr.com/pressrelease...ontent/1128760
it ranks 2 swiss cities as #1 and vancuver as #3
no US city is in the top 10
Atlanta ranked as the worst US city
Jul 10th, 2004, 07:53 AM
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My best gauge of where people want to live are the millions of people who would give anything to get to America.Including many from N.Zealand ,Canada,and Australia.There are very few U.S. citizens who would prefer a different passport.
Jul 10th, 2004, 08:03 AM
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>The consensus here seems to be that it's good if travel influences one to think more globally, but bad if nationalism is the result. Why is that?<
I think the intent is that overcoming provincialism and xenophobia is good.
I think the intent is that overcoming provincialism and xenophobia is good.
Jul 10th, 2004, 08:08 AM
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We have travelled to 20 countries and we will go to many more.We learn new things all the time.We have been warned before many trips ,Especially since 9/11 in the Middle east(Egypt,Jordan,U.A.E.) about anti U.S. sentiment.We have always been treated great.There are many places I would love to have a second home.Almost anywhere in Europe would be just fine with us.
Jul 10th, 2004, 03:22 PM
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mgmargate, I was trying to be non-inflammatory so as to avoid giving offense. I have considerable fondness for Americans, and I didn't want to be accused of America-bashing. But in so doing I may have understated my point. Of course America and Americans have many admirable qualities, and yes, America's size and influence means that many Australian, Canadian and NZ movie actors, musicians, merchant bankers and so forth live and work there because of opportunities taht our smaller markets don't provide. But I would stress that many live and work in the UK and Europe for the same reasons.
Believe it or not, though, while many ordinary Australians visit America, very few harbour a desire to live there. As difficult as it may be for a proud American to accept, we most definitely would not give our eye teeth for America's social inequities, such as the denial of adequate health care to the (many) poor, nor its rates of violent crime, imprisonment, punitive approach to drug users, firearms ownership and religiosity. To many outsiders these traits are strangely at odds with individual Americans' well-deserved reputation for openness and generosity.
Some foreign perceptions of the US may be distorted and unfair, and I for one know that there's much more to America than the above negatives, but these are very real quality-of-life issues for millions. Most of the Americans who've made their home here would agree. There are more than you might realise.
Before it gets lost, I should stress that I was reacting to another poster's not acknowledging the existence of several other, if smaller, "lands of opportunity". If I was being unfair to that poster I apologise.
dgruzew, thanks. That survey supports my point nicely - Vancouver, Auckland and Sydney all make the top 10. I've seen other surveys with similar results.
And ben_haines_london - beautifully put, mate. Couldn't agree more.
Believe it or not, though, while many ordinary Australians visit America, very few harbour a desire to live there. As difficult as it may be for a proud American to accept, we most definitely would not give our eye teeth for America's social inequities, such as the denial of adequate health care to the (many) poor, nor its rates of violent crime, imprisonment, punitive approach to drug users, firearms ownership and religiosity. To many outsiders these traits are strangely at odds with individual Americans' well-deserved reputation for openness and generosity.
Some foreign perceptions of the US may be distorted and unfair, and I for one know that there's much more to America than the above negatives, but these are very real quality-of-life issues for millions. Most of the Americans who've made their home here would agree. There are more than you might realise.
Before it gets lost, I should stress that I was reacting to another poster's not acknowledging the existence of several other, if smaller, "lands of opportunity". If I was being unfair to that poster I apologise.
dgruzew, thanks. That survey supports my point nicely - Vancouver, Auckland and Sydney all make the top 10. I've seen other surveys with similar results.
And ben_haines_london - beautifully put, mate. Couldn't agree more.
