Joannyc was probably switching her fork and knife every time she ate a bite - dead giveaway.

Oui.

<< immimi on Jun 10, 12 at 10:35am ...or perhaps a finger>>

LOL! That was my thought, too!

I tend to doubt that they were impressed by my solo dining. I have done it thousands of times throughout the world. And, yes, I have had some women and men approach me and tell me they were impressed with my independence.

This family didn't even crack a bit of a smile throughout their staring.

I don't pretend to know if they were saying hostile or negative things about this "American" so, no, that wasn't it.

St. Cirq, I assume you are being facetious. However, I hold a fork in my left hand and a knife in my right hand. How do you eat?

I really don't know what it means. I've dined alone so often
in France and had great encounters with people seating next to me. No stares, nothing uncomfortable but plesasures.

Me, too, cigalechanta!

This was an unusual and uncomfortable exception.

And why would you think they even cared what you were doing?

Full disclosure: I am in love with France and the French. I have never been treated better anywhere -- and I've been a bit of a nomad.

When I lived in Paris, someone said to me, "They know you love them, so they respond in kind."

You don't have to go that far, but a little civility goes a long way.

I have seen a number of rude people in Paris. They were not French.

I was posting while cigalechanta was posting.

I have been in Paris with her. She is well received because she is warm and open.

Try it sometime.

Wheever someone tells me they have been "mistreated" in Paris, I can usually tell why.

katkat1950: <i>This is a serious question. Are there books you can buy and read before traveling to France that give specific cultural information like this in addition to information about sightseeing and hotel accommodations?</i>

There is a series of books, which seems to be dying out in popularity. They are called "Culture Shock [name a country]"

For example, type in "Culture Shock France" in Amazon and you can read the reviews.

For those who find they are going through culture shock when in a foreign country, it'll be both fun and enlightening to read "Culture Shock, USA" to find out what difference customs and habits we have - things that we take for granted but come as a shock to visitors to the US.


Cowboy: I only had a couple of those Asterix books when growing up, but that's what, as a kid, I thought France was really like. Imagine my surprise on my first visit to France!

Most of those books are written to sell books (a little humor included) and have little to do with the reality.

toupary6, I think you need to re-read my threads if it is to my threads to which you are responding.

@joannyc, do you often think it is about you? You are hardly the first person who has misinterpreted the French.

However, since you brought it up, I have dined alone on numerous occasions in France. Before I lived there, I preferred to travel alone, so that's how it was. I was always well treated. As far as fellow diners, conversation if I wanted, left alone if I wanted.

Why would you assume their reaction to you was negative?

toupary6, << do you often think it is about you>>

No, I do not OFTEN think it is about me as I don't typically run into such behavior.

I usually have very nice dining experiences and often have interaction with those dining around me.

Do you read previous threads?

<<This was an unusual and uncomfortable exception.>>

@joannyc, I'm sorry you had an uncomfortable experience.

My question referred not to your experience in Honfleur, but to why you would think I had singled you out, out of nearly 170 posts.

Yes, I read every post before I respond to a thread. There was nothing particularly interesting about yours to make me single you out.

Clearly, you want to believe I did.

I rest my case.

Jill02--I loved your story. I can just picture it.

For others...
I am wondering if the references to "Culture Shock" is perhaps the "Culture Smart" series. I don't know the "Culture Shock" series, but we have found the "Culture Smart" series to be helpful, not so much for France (we were pretty well versed there already***) but in other countries. They have really helped keep us from acting like idiots from the moment we touch the turf.

I've often related in posts about an acquaintance who insisted she was treated rudely in France, and she actually teared up and did a little sob when telling me her experience in a restaurant. She had no clue that she had to ASK for the check. She thought the waiter was purposely ignoring her when he was actually being polite.

A far more serious problem is knowing what hand gestures mean in every country. Here's a funny article about that:
http://www.languagetrainers.co.uk/bl...hand-gestures/

By the way, we were just in Vegas for a family celebration, and my husband noticed that the bartender poolside was not serving this one older gentleman. My husband was baffled because this bartender was particularly efficient and was very friendly. I was reading my Kindle at the time, and I looked up to see the gentleman in question. "Oh, that's a lay up" I said. "He was at the piano bar last night, and I heard the waitress say, 'Great, another Brit who thinks that because he's UK he gets to play by UK rules.'"

In other words, he wasn't tipping American style.

My theory is that he had probably been at the pool bar the day before, and the natural consequence of not tipping at a bar or just leaving small change was that he would be the last at the bar to get his drinks. He probably thinks Americans are rude, and his servers not familiar with UK tipping policies think HE is rude.

***follow up email for my claim that I was pretty well versed in French culture... Just to show that that when you think you know, you don't....

We thought we really did know all the rules. And generally, we've made that work. My one daughter always had this killer French accent, and because of it, we'd often get seated in the "French side" of larger restaurants away from American tourists.

However, in the Brasserie Lipp, she and I WERE treated quite rudely. We had been to Paris enough to know it was not our imagination. We were just astounded. When I got back, I wrote about our surpringly negative experience, and one poster wrote back immediately that I must have "missed the memo": Brasserie Lipp was renowned for its rude service.

Just Google "Brasserie Lipp rude" and you'll see he was right.

Now that I know, I actually intend to go back there this fall just to see if the treatment is still that bad. I'll take notes!!!

On the other hand, when we were Paris neophytes, my two girls, quite little at the time, and I wandered unknowingly into upperscale Fouquet's, a place where service has been accused of being haughty and arrogant. We were not dressed well (not scummy, but), our French was fractured, you name it, we were not ready-for-Fouquet customers. They treated my girls like princesses. I'll never forget it.

There is rude and then there is unforgiving. In other countries the people are more forgiving of not knowing all the intricacies and nuances of a culture. There are certain behavior which is universal, and then there are of course, others that are not. And that is what we are speaking about. I once forgot my etiquette in Paris and picked up a can of olive oil to read the label and was treated as if I molested a child.

The Parisians are unforgiving about not speaking their language properly. Last month a sister-in-law who is a well- traveled artist went to Paris for the first time and was told that it would be better for her to ask a question in Spanish than English.

And this jogged my memory of my first impression of France. We were taking a train from Luxembourg City to Paris. It was the usual second class comaprtment and became filled as we approached Paris. A woman in her haughtiest French said of my wife and myself, "First time in France."

If my French was better and could carry on a conversation, I would lied and said, "Deuxième."

Many, not all, Americans are intimidated by the French and justify this behavior because they too want to be part of what of they consider a more sophisticated culture.

As I stated above, I never raise my voice, rarely complain in hotels and restaurants, have made life-long friends in different countries and take umbrage at those who blame the visitor for this unforgiving behavior.

I was once waiting for a return trip home at CDG and the flight was delayed. The behavior of many of fellow Americans was indeed embarrassing, but so was the Ameican who had her scarf tied like proper Parisienne, and acted openly disgusted just show she was an elevated life form.

Never had any problems at all in France.
We were in Nice at the start of the Iraq war, and my DH was very concerned there would be rampant anti Americanism.

There was not, we had a lovely time.

I love your observation, aduchamp. I could always tell the tourists in Paris -- they were the ones trying to look Parisian. A true parisienne would never try to look like anyone else.

And I agree, Judyrem, I was in Paris just after we invaded Iraw, and people couldn't have been nicer.

We have been to Paris five times over 40 years. It remains one of my favorite cities for the food, museums, the use of light on buildings and structures as well as being spectacular walking city. I am not sure when we will return but we will.

*goes to get more popcorn as catfight seems to be brewing*