This has got to be one of the strangest threads: food and customs, cemeteries and obituaries. And kerouac's photo of the rotting food on the Chinese grave somehow ties it all in.

<i>And in a "real" restaurant, a huge(for example) "mushroom burger with roquefort sauce" is eaten with a knife and fork even in the U.S. unless you want juice running down to your elbows.</i>

The key to eating a messy burger or sandwich is to not put it down. I would never eat a burger with a knife and fork. It misses the point, which is to get the proper balance of meat and cheese and bun and toppings. When you use a knife and fork the proportions get screwed up. If it is impossible to eat it with your hands, then it fails as a burger.

<i>in France you are supposed to have your arms on the table but could be reverse.</i>

How are French people supposed to speak if their hands are under the table?

<i>Most European pizza will droop if you pick it up, due to its thin crust.</i>

Which is why you fold the slice in half.

<i>Is it acceptable to ask your guests for a tour of their apartment in the US ??</i>

In Denmark, they will ask for a tour and will ask you how much you pay for it. This is even if they don't know you well.

Sap, this thread is like a French dinner conversation except that we have not started on politics yet.

It's the Italians who need their hands to talk, not the French--at least those I've met.

Now, about the politics...who will replace Sarkozy?

<i>Is it acceptable to ask your guests for a tour of their apartment</i>

I meant "hosts" of course.

Underhill wrote: "It's the Italians who need their hands to talk ..."

At the risk of derailing this important discussion of French culture, I commend people to observe Italians using mobile phones. They seem to use their hands as much as in face-to-face encounters.

"Polly Platt obituary | Film | The Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2011/...tt-obituaryAug 7, 2011 – Versatile production designer, screenwriter and producer of Hollywood films."

Hard to believe that two American women would have a name like Polly Platt, but in fact it's true. The Hollywood producer died in 2011. Polly Platt the Francophile and author of French or Foe, died in 2008.

In fact the difficulty I had with Polly Platt was that her advice was for a different society than I live in here in the south-west of France. We dont often have to worry abut going in to dinner with an ambassador. What mystified me was her mention that when your host brings out the orange juice, it's time to go. Never in 17 years has my host offered orange juice - lots of eau de vie, no juice. But Canadian friends who frequent embassies in Ottawa tell me that it's done there.

We have however offered home grown corn on the cob to our neighbours here in the Dordogne. My husband has never quite forgiven me for advising that he not pick more cobs, as 'they'll never eat more than one.' They did, we didn't, and we have photos to prove it.

In support of Padraig's observation about Italians on cell phones/mobiles/telefonini, I vividly remember our taxi driver in Sicily driving fast down the freeway while on his cell phone. He used one hand for the phone, the other hand to gesture -- leaving no hands for the steering wheel.

How can an Italian actually talk on a mobile phone - don't they need both hands to 'talk'?

I want to know how Italian teens get by. French teens are texting all the time even in the middle of a conversation so they could not use their hands for anything else.

French parents are astounded at how their teen children can text under the dinner table without even looking at the screen.

<i>French parents are astounded at how their teen children can text under the dinner table without even looking at the screen.</i>

Keeping the hands on the table is no longer <i>de rigueur</i>?

Not if you are discreetly texting.

(But more seriously, I have never heard any of this nonsense about what to do with your hands at dinner.)

But I did when I grew up. And of course, keeping knife in the right hand and fork in the left is not natural, it is taught--difficult to keep the hand under the table with an implement in it.

Things have changed. Nonetheless, in 1995 we went to a hunter's meal in the hamlet where we have our house. My wife's cousin, who met our neighbor briefly upon our arrival, wore his hat at this <i>plein air repas</i> and the neighbor went to him (he speaks no French and she no English) to let him know that it was improper to wear a hat at the table. I was taken aback that she did not try to be more discreet about it. He redeemed himself by offering and modeling his bright red wide suspenders for the subsequent fund-raising auction.

NEVER wear your hat at the table in France!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...n-IMG_0066.jpg


Sometimes I think of compiling a book of all the misinformation I've received over the years about the French.

My favorite: Years ago, I was on my way to Paris, and a friend told me I should stop shaving my legs because in France only the prostitutes did so.

toupary6,

touché!

But in my case, it was a French woman insisting on a rule that might not really exist.

I know, Michael, but I just couldn't resist.

My French "parents" taught me it was fine to rest your hands in your lap when not using your utensils or to rest your arms just below the wrists on the edge of the table (not your elbows on the table, obviously) Of course, this was the day and age when even best social friends still used the "vous" form when speaking to each other even at home.

In Germany, I've been told it's considered very impolite to have your hands in your lap during a meal...something having to do with long ago to show you don't have weapons hidden and mean the host harm.

Hi
If you want to dine at someone's place in France, there's an option in Paris area, in Versailles.
http://www.lacuisinedebertrand.com
There you'll learn about "real" french étiquette (this expression always made me laugh, because there is no much french people caring about this).

I don't think it's proper anywhere for a man to wear a hat at dinner. Unless one's eating a hot dog in a stadium watching a ball game.

For a less formal setting than the <i>déjeuner de canotiers</i>:

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=carti...:0&tx=76&ty=64