casperjj

We will be visiting Switzerland for 5 weeks in July and August. We'll have an apartment in Basel for the duration. I have our plans pretty much set but I keep flipping on one of the daytrips. I'm hoping that those in the know might help me choose.

Most of the time will be spent in Basel, visiting Basel itself and doing daytrips from there. We do plan 5 nights in Paris and 6 nights travelling around Switzerland (Murren 3nts, golden pass VIP to Montreux where we'll stay in Vevey 2nts (visiting Chilion, Lavaux vineyards and Parc Vapeur), Gruyeres 1nt (visiting Broc chocolate factory, gruyere cheese factory and gruyere castle). The plan now is to stop in Bern on the way back to Basel from Gruyeres (visit old town and bears).

We do plan to do several daytrips from Basel. Right now, we will do one day to Rheinfelden (and August Raurica), one day to Rhine Falls, Schaffhausen and Stein am Rhein, two individual day trips to Lucerne (one for golden trip to Pilatus and one for old town and possibly Mt Rigi) , a day to Alsace region of France and a day to a few villages in the Black Forest.

I am planning for one more daytrip and have thought all long that I would love for us to go to Appenzell. The thought is to go Basel to Rapperzwill, visit there for an hour or two (thinking rose gardens and kinderzoo), then to Appenzell for several hours. This is a 3 hr train ride which is the longest I would wish to go in a day as it ultimately ends up being 6hrs on a train. I liked the idea of stopping in Rapperzwill because it would break up the trip for the children (ages 5, 7 and 10). Also considering stopping in Zurich for an hour or so on the way back if we're not too tired. Again, to break up the trip a bit but also to give us a chance to visit Zurich.

All that said, Zermatt has not made it on our list and I've now discovered that it too is a 3hr train ride from Basel.

Between Appenzell and Zermatt, which would you choose, considering the places we'll already be visiting? In the alternative, is there another location that we haven't included in our plan that you would recommend over both Appenzell and Zermatt? The only scenic train planned is GoldenPass VIP seats to Montreux on our way to Vevey... should we consider a different scenic train instead? I did want to go to the Lugano area but that really is too far away for us. I'm also open of course to areas that are much closer to Basel than 3 hours... I've heard quite a bit about the Emmental area and Zug but not quite sure what to do there.

While I'd love to add another location to our six day trip around switzerland and make it a few days longer, we really can't so any other locations must be during a day trip from Basel.

I'd love any recommenations and insight you may have.

Thank you!

latchpop

While I'd love to add another location to our six day trip around switzerland and make it a few days longer, we really can't so any other locations must be during a day trip from Basel.
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animation notes

PalenQ

The only scenic train planned is GoldenPass VIP seats to Montreux on our way to Vevey.>

Well it a sweet ride but not dramatically scenic like trains in the Jungfrau Region or up to Zermatt - if in Bern you are so so close to Interlaken, gateway to the fantastic Jungfrau Region, to me both the literal and figurative highlight of Switzerland - the dreamy Alpine Switzerland of glaciers girdled sheer peaks hovering above lush cow-dotrted valleys - that picture etched in many folks' minds can only be fulfilled in a place like Grindelwald, Lauterbrunnen or Zermatt but not from anywhere on your trip as I scanned it.

Bern is a lovely old town and yes the playful bears are nice. But to me if there is one place that should not be missed if you have not been to Switzerland before is an area like the Jungfrau Region or Zermatt.

Anyway with that much train travel be sure to take a good look at the Swiss Pass, which not only passes on trains but lake boats (be sure to do a float from Vevey - like across the lake to Evian-les-Bains, France - postal buses city trams and buses and also gets free entry to 400+ Swiss museums - hop on any train practically anytime - covers Golden Pass in full.

Anyway for lots of great info on Swiss trains and passes and other options like the Half-Fare Card, Swiss Card, etc I always spotlight these IMO fantastic sites - www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.swisstravelsystem.com.

Ingo

If you're not totally set on going to the Alps for that day trip I'd recommend either the Jura mountains (St. Ursanne - a picturesque town, the Swiss Watch Valley with Le Locle and La-Chaux-d'Fonds, or the cheesemaking at former monastery Bellelay, the cheese is "Tete de Moine") with scenic train rides also

OR

The vineyards along Lake Biel and Lake Neuchatel, with cute villages/small towns like Ligerz, Twann, La Neuveville, you can do a wine tasting, do a boat trip on all three lakes (incl. Lake Murten) which are connected by canals (all three lakes is a bit too long, could be boring in the end.) The towns of Neuchatel, Biel and Murten have very beautiful old towns, all of them worth a visit.

OR

Visit Solothurn, one of my favourite Swiss towns. Very beautiful old town. There is also a chair-lift up to Weissenstein mountain, great views from there.

Not sure about Zermatt vs. Appenzell. The Matterhorn might be in clouds, invisible, you never know. But if you're set on seeing glaciers and dramatic mountains, then go for it. If you're more into lovely rolling hills, green pastures, cute villages/towns, then go to Appenzell. Rapperswil is definitely worth to see, btw. And Zürich, too.

casperjj

PalenQ, you missed it Right before I discussed the golden pass train to Vevey, I said that we'll be in Murren for 3 nights. I agree wholeheartedly that Jungfrau region is not to be missed. I just wish we could stay there longer. The plan is to stay in Murren for three nights. While there, we'll visit Schilhorn, do the North Face Walk from Allmendhal, visit to Wengen with cablecar to Mannlichen and walk to KS then to Grindelwald and do a boat trip to Brienz. Thank you for the advice about the pass. We do plan to have a one month Swiss pass. It will give us the convenience of hopping on trains whenever we wish and will provide the entrance fees to many places we wish to visit. We'll have the family card for the children as well so they'll travel for free. PalenQ, considering that we do plan to spend 3 nights in Junfrau region, what are your thoughts on a day trip to Zermatt? Would it be worth the long train ride in the circumstances?


Thanks Ingo. You've given me a place to start. I'm absolutely not stuck on going to the Alps. I'd like to see a different area from those we will have already visited so I'm open to pretty much anything. I was concerned about the Matterhorn being in clouds but thought we may be able to find out before we left Basel.. but things can change from early morning to mid day though so it would surely be a risk. Neuchatel area was actually on my original plan and was nixed. I need to revisit it I think. Out of Neuchatel and Appenzell area, would you have a preference? Ditto for Solothurn... I don't know much about that one.. need to do some research.

casperjj

"The vineyards along Lake Biel and Lake Neuchatel, with cute villages/small towns like Ligerz, Twann, La Neuveville, you can do a wine tasting, do a boat trip on all three lakes (incl. Lake Murten) which are connected by canals (all three lakes is a bit too long, could be boring in the end.) The towns of Neuchatel, Biel and Murten have very beautiful old towns, all of them worth a visit."

Ingo, I have another question for you. I just started looking at your suggestion for the Neuchatel area. It looks like Neuchatel is only 1.5hrs by train from Basel and then another 30min from there to Murten.

The small villages you mention sound exactly what I'm looking for. I did find the boating information for Lake Neuchatel and Lake Murten at www.navig.ch but the small towns you mention aren't stops for the boats. Would the best way to get there be by train? Would you recommend a particular route to take in old town Neuchatel, a boat ride (not too too long) a visit to one or two of the small villages and possibly wine tasting, depending on how formal it is... wouldn't want to bore the kids too much, and then possibly to Murten for the afternoon.

Dukey1

I am planning for one more daytrip and have thought all long that I would love for us to go to Appenzell.

Having been there my question is WHY? It is scenic enough, such as it is, but IMO the far more important and memorable stop would be in nearby St. Gallen for a visit to the abbey church as well as the famous library.

Ingo

The villages I mentioned are on Lake Biel. For boats/schedules there have a look at www.bielersee.ch There are several boats in summer that run between Biel and Erlach and stop in all these villages.

For everything wine related see www.bielerseewein.ch, unfortunately in German and French only. Here is the list of wineries: http://www.bielerseewein.ch/winzer.asp
And this link is the download for the list (pdf-file) of winetastings: http://www.bielerseewein.ch/pdf/degustationen.pdf

It's hard to say which one is my favourite. I like Ligerz because of the church high up in the vineyards with the funicular (I guess your kids would enjoy that, too). La Neuveville e.g. is a picturesque small town, not much more than one main street, but very nice ambience. Erlach and St. Peter Island are very beautiful, too, well preserved small town, the island (really a peninsula) has a famous hotel/restaurant where J. J. Rousseau once lived. Btw, right after passing the canal between Lake Biel and Lake Neuchatel, on the right side, is the La Tene pre-historic site. Also an idea for the kids.

Neuchatel has a true French ambience. Charming old town, castle and church up on the hill, lots of nice little squares with fountains in the old town. There is also a funicular up to Mt. Chaumont, beautiful views, sometimes (often) even of the Alps in the distance.

Must close here, it's late in Central Europe

Rastaguytoday

<<a day to Alsace region of France>>

I would suggest Colmar. It's a lovely town in the heart of the Alsace. It's about 65 km from Basel, so it's an easy day trip.

Here's a Rick Steeves blurb.

http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/desti...e/02colmar.htm

At the bottom, he mentions the wine road for the Alsace.

neckervd

The boat timetables for Lake Biel/Bienne, Lake Neuchatel and Lake Murten are somewhat confusing.

There are basically 3 daily boats from Solothurn to
Altreu (storks!)
- Grenchen (less than an hour from Basel, by train up to Grenchen Sud plus bus up to Grenchen Brücke boats pier)
- Bueren an der Aare (small medieval town, linked by bus and train to Solothurn, Bern and Biel/Bienne)
- Biel/Bienne.
The first and the second boat connect at Biel/Bienne with a Lake Biel/Bienne boat to Twann - Ligerz - St. Peters Island (old monastery building with an extremely bad restaurant) - La Neuveville - Erlach. Cablecar from Ligerz to Preles (viewpoint: 3 lakes, Bernese Alps)10-20 min after the boat's arrival.
Saturday evenng cruise on Lake Biel/Bienne 1 hr after the arrival of the third boat.

There are 2 daily boats from Biel/Bienne (dp 9.45 and 14.45) to Neuchatel - Murten. The first of them doesn't touch Neuchatel harbour properly, you must leave it at La Tene and go on from there (Marin Gare) to Neuchatel by citybus or commuter train.

There is also a daily boat connection from Murten to Yverdon, with a long layover at Neuchatel. Murten is linked by train with the Roman amphitheatre (and museum) in the tiny medieval town of Avenches. Avenches is linked by hiking trail (partly along Lake Murten) with Vallamand boat's pier....

The possibilities to combine boat rides, train rides, bus rides, hikes, visits of walled cities (Murten), Roman stuff (Avenches, Vallon), Lake dwellings (Portalban and Lake dwelling museums at Biel/Bienne and Hauterive boat's and citybus stop), Menhirs (Yverdon Champ Pittet and Grandson),Gorge walks (Taubenloch, Twannbachschlucht, Gorges du Seyon, Gorges de l'Areuse) and many, many other things are endless....

And the whole area is untouristy, Things are just here, well kept, open resp available (during the opening hours) and you are often the only visitor.

Region des Trois Lacs

Check also
http://www.dreiseenland.ch/en/leisur...s/cycling.html
http://www.neuchateltourisme.ch/en/l...s/cycling.html

This area a lot of sights, like
entirely walled medieval town of Murten
http://www.murtentourismus.ch/en/welcome.cfm?
Roman amphitheatre and Roman Museum of Avenches
http://www.avenches.ch/en/page.cfm/siteetmuseeromain
Roman Villa of Vallon
http://www.pro-vallon.ch/allemand/mo.../mosaiques.htm
biggest Romanesque church of Switzerland and Monastery of Payerne
Nature Park of Grande Caricaie
http://www.myswitzerland.com/en/dest...er-le-lac.html
http://www.bafu.admin.ch/dokumentati...x.html?lang=de
Medieval town and spa of Yverdon
http://www.yverdonlesbainsregion.ch/...ure_Patrimoine
Roman mosaics of Orbe
http://www.yverdonlesbainsregion.ch/en/orbe_region
Monastery of Romainmotier
http://www.yverdonlesbainsregion.ch/...nmotier_region
Castle and Menhirs of Grandson
http://www.yverdonlesbainsregion.ch/en/grandson_region
Menhirs and Dolmen of Onnens
http://www.onnens.ch/textes-1/dolmen...rthoud,38.html
medieval town of Neuchatel with castle, cathedral and many fine museums
http://www.neuchateltourisme.ch/en/decouvertes.html
Biel/Bienne with it's small but fine city center, good museums and a lot to see in the Lake Bienne area
http://www.biel-seeland.ch/en/discov...enne.1239.html
Medieval Bueren an der Aare with wooden brige over the Aar river
http://www.bueren.ch/de/inhalte/tour...anchor=1010025
Natural reserve of Altreu and it's storks
http://www.artenschutz.ch/AareAltreu.htm
Medieval town of Solothurn with baroque cathedral and many museums
http://www.solothurn-city.ch/topic2477.html
La Chaux-de-Fonds, capital of watchmaking
http://www.neuchateltourisme.ch/en/d...onds.1500.html

Gorges of Areuse, Seyon and Taubenloch

boats plying between Yverdon, Neuchatel, Murten, Biel/Bienne, Bueren and Solothurn
Cablecars Biel/Bienne - Macolin/Magglingen, Ligerz - Preles, St-Imier - Mont Soleil, Neuchatel - Chaumont
Many trains (the trains from Yverdon to Ste-Croix, from Neuchatel to La Chaux de Fonds and from Biel/Bienne to Tramelan bring you up to 1000 m of altitude). So do the buses
from Solothurn to Balmberg
from Grenchen to Grenchenberg
from Biel/Bienne to Les pres d'Orvin
from La Neuveville to Nods and Chasseral
from Grandson to Mauborget and Le Couvent ......

casperjj

Holy cow Neckervd! What an incredible amount of information! Unfortunately it means that I'm now very confused. There's obviously way more to do here than can be done in a day and I have no idea how to even start narrowing things down.

So, the plan before I had your message was to

either
take a boat ride around Lake Biel visiting maybe two villages, maybe Ligerz and La Neuveville

or
travel by train to Solothurn then train to Neuchatel to visit the town and then train to Murten to visit there.

Now, I'd like to kind of blend the two if possible. Neckervd, you know the area so well, can you help me plan out a day in the area? I'm sure we'd like to do a scenic boat ride of some kind. Not too long, maybe 30min? I'd definitely like to visit a smaller village as well as Solothurn and Neuchatel. I think the kids would love to see the storks. And I don't think we'll do any hiking. We don't hike much, and we will have spent several days in the Junfrau region so I expect the kids may be hiked out.

Dukey - I had seen pictures of Appenzell and the area just looks very pretty and different from the other areas we had in the plan. I've heard great things about St Gallen but I'm not sure, after visiting the many museums in Basel and Paris, that the kdis would be overly interested in visiting the library and church there.

Rastaguy - We do plan on visiting both Colmar and a few villages in the wine route.

casperjj

I've managed to come up with a plan for a day to the Neuchatel area. There's no way I could include as much as I wanted to do, and goodness knows I tried. Its taken me all day and many many cuts of wonderful places. I basically came to teh conclusion that I could do the towns on the Aare along with those on Lac de Bienne. I chose Lac de Bienne but its open for change if you think the other is a better choice. I also wanted to include several stops on the lake but realistically, I also wanted to visit Solothurn and Neuchatel as well. That said, I also wanted to visit Murten and Avenches and they didn't make the cut.

So, here's teh schedule. Its defintely open to change. The places I wanted to include are La Neuveville, Bueren an der Aare, Avenches, and Murten. If you think there's a way to do this (such as spending less time in some places) I'd love to hear it.

Train (dur 1h): Basel – Solothurn [dep 8:04 arr 9:00](spend 2hrs exploring)
Train (dur 20min) Solothurn-Biel [dep 10:59 arr 11:15 or 11:13 arr 11:31]
Boat( dur40min) Biel – Liguerz [dep 12:00 arr 12:40][explore 2.5hrs]
- Get lunch in Liguerz (any recommendations?)
- Explore town, vineyards, funicular (is this enough time?)
Train (dur 25min) : Liguerz – Neuchatel [dep 15:01 arr 15:26]
- stay for 3hrs
- 4pm Renaissance chateau free guided tour (last of day)
- Train tourisique de Neuchatel
- Fontaine du griffon
- Explore old town
- Fontaine du Griffon
- Dinner (any recommendations?)
Train back to Basel (dur 1.5hr) dep 18:24 arr 19:53 (we can leave later if it works better but I'd like to be back by 22:00)

So, how does it look? Are we spending too much time in some places and not enough in others? Would you trade out some places for others? Never having been, its hard to determine.

Ingo

Looks good to me. Of course you cannot see everything. Personally, I would probably want to do the funicular ride up to Chaumont from Neuchatel (webcam: www.chaumont.ch) maybe have dinner up there. Catching the 19:53 train back could be tough, though.

neckervd

It's feasible. In my opinion, you spend too much time at Ligerz (the small vine museum there is open Saturday and Sunday only: 13.30 - 17.00).
Most scenic (rather basic) restaurant with fine view over the whole lake from the terrasse: Aux 3 Amis (The 3 friends) at Schernelz (cable car stop Festi, hiking trail from Ligerz village via Ligerz church). http://www.mytable.com/Schweiz/Liger...s/r35873072/de
Restaurant in the village: Hotel Kreuz

May ber you could do the whole thing the other way round:
Basel SBB dp 8.03 - Ntel ar 9.32, bus to St Honoré ar 9.40. Castle/Collegiale - Tour de Diesse and tiny old town with fountains - Place des Halles - Harbour, dp by boat 11.40 - Ligerz ar 13.35 (restaurant on board).

There are tons of restaurants at Neuchatel. A nice one (not particularly heap) is Les Palafittes, directly on the Lake, close to Latenium museum and boat's pier Hauterive.
http://www.palafitte.ch/en#situation

There are also some nice restaurants in the tiny medieval town of La Neuveville. Directly on the lake is Jean Jacques Rousseau http://www.jjrousseau.ch/index.php?id=242
the most unconventional one is l'Ecole est finie http://www.lecole-estfinie.ch/index.php

neckervd

Sorry: Ntel/Palafittes: it should be"not particularly CHEAP".

casperjj

Thank you both!

Ingo, I'll look into the funicular. I think the kids would like that.

Neckervd, you mention bus to St Honore... I hadn't read about that. Is it necessary to get to the chateau? Also, you recommended changing the boat. Is the boat from Neuchatel to Ligerz a more scenic or otherwise nicer route than the boat from Biel to Ligerz? If we spend less time in Ligerz, do you think there's a way to 'fit in' another stop?

neckervd

St Honore is just the Neuchatel city bus stop where you have to leave the bus coming from the railway station if you want to head to the castle, that's all!

"Is it necessary to get to the chateau?"
Nothing is necessary, it's just up to you if you want to walk up to the castle and the medieval church called la Collegiale.

All boat rides are scenic (and expensive: but free with Swiss Pass,I suppose you will have it anyway). The area around Ligerz is particularly scenic, however.

PalenQ

All boat rides are scenic (and expensive: but free with Swiss Pass>

there is a class distinction on boats IME - the vaunted open-air upper deck is for first-class pass holders only. But if with a 2nd class pass you want to sit in first class just do it and then conductor will then collect the difference between the normal first and second-class fare when he/she comes around - at least that has been my experiences.

casperjj

Thank you! I wish I could find a way to get notified when someone responds. I missed both of your posts.

Neckervd, I feel like a twit because I'm sure its there but for the life of me, I can't find the ferry schedule that has a route from Neuchatel to Ligerz that leaves Neuchatel at 110am. The only one I see leaves after 3pm....

Thanks for the info on St. Honore. I had no idea the train didn't stop in the middle of town. I just assumed that everything was close by and a bus wasn't required. Mistake on my part.

We will indeed have a Swiss pass. We're also planning on doing boat tours of Lake Geneva, Lake Lucerne, Lake Brienz and possibly a river tour from Schaffhausen to Stein am Rhein. Since we're also doing the VIP seats on Golden Pass, I figure we'll just bite the bullet and get 1st class Swiss Passes rather than upgrading. It should also ensure that we can get 5 seats together, no matter when we decide to travel.

casperjj

Ingo, I just had a look at Chaumont link you provided. I think my kids would love the horses and the adventure park. Although I'm not sure if we'll have time to do either. Is it still an enjoyable visit if you don't partake in those activities? Also, did you have a particular recommendation for a place to eat there?