Taking your hat off indoors has nothing to do with europe. It's only polite in the US too - although I must admit I see a lot of guys here who seem to be clueless.

As for other differences - agree that any guidebook will tell you the basics and common sense/flexibility should do the rest.

I think that Americans – Aussies too – SEEM loud in Italy. I don’t think that they are necessarily talking loudly – it’s just that you can understand what they are saying. (I don’t have a lot of Italian.) That being said, I think that there are loud mouths in every language.

I wonder if Americans seem loud when in, say, London.

I do agree that Americans in general tend to speak more loudly than Europeans, and need more "personal space" when interacting (which might account for the louder speaking, in part...Europeans tend to have less space between their faces when conducting a conversation)...and then there are those who think if they shout in English, their language will be more easily understood, which is laughable, but unfortunately fairly common. But to say that they talk more loudly in groups so that they won't be considered secretive seems completely silly and wrong to me - it's just what they're used to. The logic of that is, I agree, completely bogus. Nobody in an American group thinks "I don't want people thinking I'm being secretive." That's just weird.

And what one has been told by "US-Americans" doesn't mean a thing. I've lived long enough to have been told a million things by thousands of people. Some of it's broad generalizations; some of it's just the narrow-minded views of provincial folks. Some of it's half-truths. Some of it's just rubbish.

To the OP, just go and be polite and pleasant and you'll learn along the way what works where. Europeans aren't exactly, as a group, all that different from "us."

Not all Americans speak in a loud voice. Its more of a regional thing.
Down south we are taught manners at a very young age. Soft spoken,and respectful.There are always exceptions no matter where you travel.
Not all Americans are rude,loud and disrespectful.I wish every person could travel to South Carolina. Pawleys Island,Charleston or any of the coastal lowcountry.

Quokka: I agree with your comment about "WWII buff." I think the use of "buff" was originally used in referring to our American Civil War (or as some Southerners call it "the War of Northern Aggression.") For some reason that use has never bothered me, probably because the Civil War is so far removed in time.

Perhaps it bothers Southerners, though, since it was their part of the country that was so damaged.

Anyway, I find it offensive when discussing WWII.

I'm very interested in WWII, but I'm also interested in the Versailles Treaty and its effects as well as the Cold War and its effect on eastern Germany and eastern bloc countries.

The absolute highlight of my spring trip to eastern Germany was my visit to the Nicholaikirche. It was so inspiring to be in that church and to learn more about die Helden Stadt!

On a slightly different subject I remember the day a friend called to tell me that the Berlin Wall had fallen. It was one of those occasions when you remember everything about the room you were in, how you felt, etc., just as Americans remember the day we received news of Kennnedy's assassination and the explosion of the Challenger.

It was just amazing to hear that news.

Having been on the go in Europe since I was 10, hopefully I do not come across as your typical American. I was in Germany (Garmisch-Partenkirchen) 10 years after Hitler's fall from grace and have returned a few times over the years. I've heard loud Americans, Germans, Spaniards, French and English on numerous occasions without being offended. It's a part of life. It all depends on where you are and when you're there. Aussies are always loud, it's part of their nature, but no different from anyone else who find themselves far away from home. Without the help and friendship of a few Aussies and South Africans back in the early 70s I might not be around today. We ever know what today or tomorrow will bring.

But getting back to the original question, you can never understand or prepare yourself in dealing with the locals unless you have been there in person. We all learn and adapt over time (with minor exceptions). Go with the flow and adapt where and when you can. And enjoy your great adventure!

I get the idea that sparkchaser doesn't like too many people.

When I read gems like:


"Nobody cares that your great grandfather came from there."

"Germans cannot queue to save their lives. The three exceptions are: the bakery, the butcher, and the ATM. Every other occasion it is every person for themselves."

And the general idea that Germans do not like immigrants.

-I enjoy going to Germany and often people have asked me if I am of German heritage, it has come in handy that I do know the town that my ancestors were from.

- Lining up seems to be the best way to get service. I've seen people who were totally ignored b/c they didn't line up.

-It's true that Germany has strict immigration laws and it's not a come one, come all type of country. I had an interesting conversation with a German Immigration Attorney once, not that I was trying to immigrate we just happen to be talking one day. They have well thought out reasons to be strict.

-Finally, as I said in the Lounge to a parallel thread.
I don't think "lots" of Americans speak loudly.

There are oafs out there as there are from any country. Or maybe there are hard of hearing people but most people who speak loudly in public are just ill mannered. Most polite Americans speak in softer tones just as polite and smart people do around the world.

Sometimes there are ill mannered people on cell phones.

As appealing as the idea that we could just pack up all the loud boorish people to one country or another sounds, sadly they come from all nations. Anyone who lives in a big city knows this because we hear them in their different tongues.

Or we, blessedly, don't hear them. Which seems to happen most often with people of most nations.

I Think we can forget whatever sparkchaser has to say. It's irrelevant to this discussion.

"It's true that Germany has strict immigration laws "

Compared to where?

Germany has no laws preventing most of the over 450 million foreigners with passports from other EU nations from living, working and voting in local elections in Germany. And often taking advantage of the social benefits paid for by German taxpayers.

Outside the EU, does any other country on earth have such liberal immigration laws?

Hello again sparkchaser,

I still don’t have the same experiences that you describe here. I’m wondering if you mean “non-Caucasian” foreigners rather than just foreigners. That, I think, might be closer to some things I’ve (unfortunately) seen.

Your friend’s husband with an “English” last name still has a foreign (non-German) last name, but he got a reply to his email; his wife with the “ethnic” last name did not. Maybe it was due to some lasting vestiges of prejudice that still remain (particularly from Germans who are 55 years old or older). That would also apply to your Polish friend’s terrible experience. My neighbor recently decided to move back to München, and he asked me if I knew of any Americans who could rent his place here in Garmisch. He had no qualms about renting to foreigners. In fact, I think he did finally rent to someone from Belgium (I’ll find out in a few weeks when they move in).

Or, I wonder if your experiences are different because the town you live in has fewer foreigners overall? Here in Garmisch, we see folks from all over Europe, the Americas, and Asia – so renting to foreigners, whether for a week, a year, or a decade, is pretty common. Maybe you live in a place that’s off the beaten path and that doesn’t get many foreigners? If so, that experience may not be relevant to the OP, who most probably won’t have the time to get off the beaten track. In the larger towns and cities, I think locals are more accustomed these days to seeing foreign faces and names.

Wow, I’d like to hear more about getting into a fight over not being fluent in German! My last name is also German (my father’s first name was “Heinz”), and folks are somewhat amused and taken aback that my German is so poor – but nobody fights me! Hehehee, when I tell them I am an American, they understand . . . . (we have such a poor reputation as linguists!), and they speak slowly and help me with grammar.

s

And where is burnie [op]? Sitting back watching I suspect. Learn a few basic phrases in the relevant language if possible. They will know you are not a 'local ' as soon as you open your mouth and will usually [ at least in our experience ] make allowances. When we visited Italy, [ my Italian is basically food related ], I had a palm card with some simple phrases to try to get us by. We managed and everyone was lovely. In France, I have some French and I find people are appreciative when I try. Be polite. Would you be any thing less at home? Probably not.

You are going to Europe, not the Middle East or even Asia where yes, you could possibly come across some huge cultural and religious differences.

Go and enjoy yourself.

<i>Don't let ex-pats give you any "good advice". All they usually know is which online store carries their favorite brand of US peanut butter.</i>

There is much wisdom in that sentence.


swandav2000, I live in an extremely multi-cultural city in Mittelfraken. And that is why it boggles my mind that I encounter so many xenophobic Germans. It's really strange.

As for the story of me almost getting into a fight, it was at a beer festival in Franconia. That should be explanation enough. And no, I wasn't drunk -- I was still on my first beer!

Hans, my comments were generalizations. I have met lots of wonderful Germans and plenty of SOBs. That's all I'm going to say about that.

LSky (and others), regarding my comment about people not caring that your grandfather came from there, sentiment came out of different Brits' and Scots' mouths on different occasions while enjoying pints in various pubs and clubs in different countries. I haven't bothered to peruse the subject with my German (Russian, Czech, etc.) colleagues because I honestly don't care to know their opinion on the subject but if you really want to know, I can ask.




<i>In a crowd, Americans tend to feel that it is polite to speak loudly among themselves so as not to appear secretive to those around them. The opposite is true in most parts of Europe - we don't want to hear your private exchange, and we don't assume you're talking about us bystanders if you keep your voice down (and we wouldn't care anyhow even if you did talk about us...).</i>

That post still makes me laugh and reminds me of the time a German colleague told me that the reason why Americans eat with one hand is so that they can keep their other hand on their gun. He was not kidding.

It's no secret that these sweeping & usually derogatory generalizations aren't representative of everyone from any country.

I wonder though, whether being out of their own home & comfort zone makes some people overly sensitive to imagined insults - and others behave in a manner at odds with , or conversely a more pronounced version of their behavior at home.

Unread the comment about Americans all being loud speakers for fear of appearing secretive & thought it must be a joke. What, all 300 odd million of them? What rot!
Same as all Australian, English German tourists being drunken louts because of some footballers or other sports teams "playing away".

Group travel puts the spotlight on a small group of people in a foreign country and I think it's a pretty simplistic thought to imagine those people represent a whole country.

Equally, people who haven't travelled much, and/ or haven't bothered to learn something of the customs in their destination countries can inadvertently make gaffs - and probably sometimes are treated accordingly by people who are put off by their behavior.

I must have been hit with the lucky stick. In 40 years of travel around the world, I can only remember one real dud. No doubt I've also encountered a few other less than stellar encounters, but my overwhelming experiences have been of interesting people, many of whom have gone well beyond their call of duty to help me.

This is especially true of the German people I met last December & January when I was there for a month.

Why do Americans cut their food and then switch hands to eat? It's so inefficient. And why keep the hand they don't use for the fork in their laps? It seems like a lot of steps for a mouthful of food. I don't get it. I don't own a gun so I guess I can eat with both hands!

Maybe we need a thread about American cultural differences. That would make more sense than one about European cultural differences as it would point out what Americans do differently than Europeans.

“5. Nobody cares that your great grandfather came from there.”

You are so hard. It depends on. I really like to hear stories. A good mean to discuss when I meet some American or Canadian travelers.

Re. the switching of knife and fork I read an article which offered the theory that this comes from the earliest periods of the Colonial period.

Forks had not come in widespread use in Europe, so people would still cut their meat with (sharp) knives which resembled more daggers. As those were not comfortable to eat with, they put them down and used the spoon (which was already invented and in use) to get the bits into the mouth.
During the coming decades, the knives became more like ours today, the fork entered the scene in Europe and the simultanous use of both got en vogue.
But only those overseas territories which still had strong colonial ties to their motherland followed this new etiquette - not the independent US, where the new way to eat in the British Isles was probably more seen as a distant irrelevant fab.
Eventually the fork also conquered the US - but as it was not connected with a certain eating etiquette, people would just use them to make the old cut-cut-cut-eat habit more easy, i.e. to pin down the meat with the fork.

While this sounds highly believable from my point of view, I still like the idea better that you better kept one hand on your sixgun during dinner in the 1880s frontier homestead house. Which, obviously is nonsense, as the majority would probably not have chosen their weaker left hand to stay idle while eating.

I thought the reason that American's ate that way was due to the high speed restaurants introduced to the cheaper parts of their cities in the 1850s, small places, shelves to eat on and only forks or spoons provided to eat the cheaper stews and soups, few chairs. So the way to eat was keep one had near your wallet and stuff the food in with the other.

Probably just shows how little I know about their culture

<i>Maybe we need a thread about American cultural differences. That would make more sense than one about European cultural differences as it would point out what Americans do differently than Europeans.</i>

As an American it's hard for me to point out my cultural differences since I am largely unaware of most of them. Better to get the input from non-USAians.

<i>You are so hard. It depends on. I really like to hear stories. A good mean to discuss when I meet some American or Canadian travelers.</i>

I like to hear stories too. For the most part, I love hearing about people's lives.

During my lunchtime (and unscientific) poll, I asked four German coworkers (all from different regions, mind you) if they cared that the American they were to had ancestors from Hanover that immigrated to the U.S. in the 1920s. All said no in one form or another -- my favorite response was a dropped jaw expression like I just asked why the stop said said stop which was followed by him saying "no, why should I", and my second favorite was "you know I don't care"). A Chinese and an Ethiopian coworker also said no but I told them thank you but I was only interested in what Germans thought.

My anecdotes are just data points in an overall data pool.

We brush our hair, you brush teeth.

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