Credit/debit card currency translation rates
Jun 28th, 2005, 06:50 AM
#1
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Credit/debit card currency translation rates
Is there a website where one could look up historical translation rates, so as to judge how much the CC or ATM card actually cost? I'm curious whether a transaction was subject to "dynamic currency conversion"; then if it were marked up 3% more, or if an ATM withdrawal were converted at an elevated rate, I'd really be ticked.
Jun 28th, 2005, 07:03 AM
#2
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You can tell if DCC was in play by looking at the ticket. If it's in £ or €, then Visa etc. did the currency conversion. If it's in $, then DCC did it.
Only merchant transactions are subject to DCC as far as I know, so ATM withdrawals should only be marked up by whatever your bank charges.
http://www.xe.com/ict/
Note that when you look up a conversion, you should use the date the transaction was <u>settled</u>, not the date you ate the gelato.
Only merchant transactions are subject to DCC as far as I know, so ATM withdrawals should only be marked up by whatever your bank charges.
http://www.xe.com/ict/
Note that when you look up a conversion, you should use the date the transaction was <u>settled</u>, not the date you ate the gelato.
Jun 28th, 2005, 07:17 AM
#3
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Day by day historical rates for about the last decade are at www.oanda.com.
But be sure to understand what those rates actually are before getting all bitter and twisted about the rate you've been charged. After all, Wal-Mart doesn't charge you what they paid the Chinese factory.
But be sure to understand what those rates actually are before getting all bitter and twisted about the rate you've been charged. After all, Wal-Mart doesn't charge you what they paid the Chinese factory.
Jun 28th, 2005, 07:59 AM
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I have been trying to figure this out myself, to plan how much to use my cc on our upcoming trip. I know that my cc charges 2.5% on top of the VISA exchange rate. This doesn't sound great, but is it possibly better than the exchange my bank charges when I withdraw from an ATM? I always hear "you get the best rate using an ATM", but I have never seen anyone compare the numbers.
Jun 28th, 2005, 08:05 AM
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Hi S,
When you take money out of an ATM you should get the current interbank exchange rate + 1% or so.
If your bank is adding something on top of that plus a fee for an "out of network exchange", you should be considering another bank.
When you take money out of an ATM you should get the current interbank exchange rate + 1% or so.
If your bank is adding something on top of that plus a fee for an "out of network exchange", you should be considering another bank.
Jun 28th, 2005, 08:56 AM
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Thanks ira,
So I assume that the interbank exchange rate is similar to the VISA exchange rate? Meaning for VISA I pay exchange + 2.5%, and for ATM I pay exchange + 1%? Or is the interbank exchange rate better than the VISA exchange rate, meaning I save even more than 1.5% by using an ATM over VISA?
For most things I will pay cash, but I am trying to decide if it is worth the convienince of paying with VISA for hotels.
I did contact my bank and with my banking package I don't pay an additional "per withdrawl" fee for foreign withdrawls - so I'm ok there!
So I assume that the interbank exchange rate is similar to the VISA exchange rate? Meaning for VISA I pay exchange + 2.5%, and for ATM I pay exchange + 1%? Or is the interbank exchange rate better than the VISA exchange rate, meaning I save even more than 1.5% by using an ATM over VISA?
For most things I will pay cash, but I am trying to decide if it is worth the convienince of paying with VISA for hotels.
I did contact my bank and with my banking package I don't pay an additional "per withdrawl" fee for foreign withdrawls - so I'm ok there!
Jun 28th, 2005, 09:12 AM
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Hi Sock,
You are trying to decide if one way or the other will make a difference of $10/$1000 spent.
I suggest that you charge everything chargeable and get what cash you need from ATMs. That is safe, convenient and you won't notice the difference either way.
You are trying to decide if one way or the other will make a difference of $10/$1000 spent.
I suggest that you charge everything chargeable and get what cash you need from ATMs. That is safe, convenient and you won't notice the difference either way.
Jun 28th, 2005, 09:25 AM
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You are right ira, it is a very small amount I am looking at, and really not worth considering.
In the past, I have always charged hotels, trains etc, but paid for meals, admission, etc with cash. I will do the same this year. The only reason I was second guessing myself is that the 2.5% fee on my VISA is new, and I wasn't sure if it was worth thinking about paying for more in cash.
I have booked one hotel in Prague that is offering a 15% dicount for paying cash!! With the exception of that one, it will be cc for me!
In the past, I have always charged hotels, trains etc, but paid for meals, admission, etc with cash. I will do the same this year. The only reason I was second guessing myself is that the 2.5% fee on my VISA is new, and I wasn't sure if it was worth thinking about paying for more in cash.
I have booked one hotel in Prague that is offering a 15% dicount for paying cash!! With the exception of that one, it will be cc for me!
Jun 28th, 2005, 10:08 AM
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We are getting extra ``currency conversion charges'' on VISA too, and will probably switch banks because of it. This is definitely a new thing, and I for one, am ticked off.
Our ATM extra charges are `per transaction' so the cheapest thing now is apparently to withdraw huge chunks of cash at a time. Which has obvious drawbacks. Sigh.
Jun 28th, 2005, 10:26 AM
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I'm surprised that Visa (Citibank Aadvantage Card) doesn't seem to charge for Canadian exchanges -- or do they?
On June 22, Pan Pacific Hotels in Whistler charged $361.53 Canadian on my partner's Visa card. I brought it up that day as being $294.47 US. But on that same day, it posted to the account as an actual charge of $292.75. I'm surprised!! Or am I missing something?
On June 22, Pan Pacific Hotels in Whistler charged $361.53 Canadian on my partner's Visa card. I brought it up that day as being $294.47 US. But on that same day, it posted to the account as an actual charge of $292.75. I'm surprised!! Or am I missing something?
Jun 28th, 2005, 10:43 AM
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Well, you lost me there! LOL
Anyway, I don't care how they did it, all I can tell is it didn't cost us a single percent over the current bank exchange rate. That's all that matters to me. I'll be curious about other charges while we're in Canada.
Anyway, I don't care how they did it, all I can tell is it didn't cost us a single percent over the current bank exchange rate. That's all that matters to me. I'll be curious about other charges while we're in Canada.
Jun 28th, 2005, 10:58 AM
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There isn't a "current bank exchange rate" any more than there's a "current stock price" for Google.
It's a market, where supply and demand (stated in terms of "sell" and "buy" prices - similar to "ask" and "bid" in securities markets) affect the price from one second to the next.
The number commonly quoted as a "bank" rate is the "mid-market" rate, which lies somewhere between the buy and sell (not the arithmetic mean, but close to it).
It's a market, where supply and demand (stated in terms of "sell" and "buy" prices - similar to "ask" and "bid" in securities markets) affect the price from one second to the next.
The number commonly quoted as a "bank" rate is the "mid-market" rate, which lies somewhere between the buy and sell (not the arithmetic mean, but close to it).
Jun 28th, 2005, 11:07 AM
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So now are you telling us that even though your bank and Visa may charge you a total of 3% for a foreign transaction, it really may not cost you anything as they may use the "buy and sell" rates and you end up spending even less than the reported mid market rates? That's my only point. If I got a rate equal to or better than what you're calling the "mid market" rate, that's all I could expect to do with an ATM or any other transaction. Any way, I'm happy.
Jun 28th, 2005, 11:39 AM
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The complete answer is "it costs whatever it costs."
If your bank doesn't jack up the exchange rate by a couple of points (mine doesn't), and if it doesn't pass through the VisaNet ISA (mine doesn't), you can't do any better.
If you spend $700 a day for room, board, transportation, and incidentals, a two-week trip costs ~$10,000. Each percent saved is like finding a $100 bill in the street.
If your bank doesn't jack up the exchange rate by a couple of points (mine doesn't), and if it doesn't pass through the VisaNet ISA (mine doesn't), you can't do any better.
If you spend $700 a day for room, board, transportation, and incidentals, a two-week trip costs ~$10,000. Each percent saved is like finding a $100 bill in the street.
Jun 28th, 2005, 03:08 PM
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Just having returned from Europe, I have been posting my cc charges and ATM withdrawals to my Quicken records. I found a handy tool on the XE website that allows you to quickly determine the bank add-on charge to your credit card/ATM transactions. Here's the link:
http://www.xe.com/ccc/
My ATM and credit card are not supposed to be adding any additional amount. Here is some data from our trip:
6/19 $ 81.57 Euros = $103.16 USD
6/15 $ 113.60 CHF = $89.25
ATM Withdrawals:
6/9 $ 300 Euros = $ 368.71
6/10 $200 Euros = $244.74
6/11 $500 CHF = $ 395.03
6/16 $300 Euros = $363.95
Check out the XE link and you will have the answer to your original post.
http://www.xe.com/ccc/
My ATM and credit card are not supposed to be adding any additional amount. Here is some data from our trip:
6/19 $ 81.57 Euros = $103.16 USD
6/15 $ 113.60 CHF = $89.25
ATM Withdrawals:
6/9 $ 300 Euros = $ 368.71
6/10 $200 Euros = $244.74
6/11 $500 CHF = $ 395.03
6/16 $300 Euros = $363.95
Check out the XE link and you will have the answer to your original post.
Jun 29th, 2005, 09:57 AM
#18
Original Poster
Thank you all for your inputs. This was an informative discussion. Here's what I found for two transactions on 5/18/05 when the rate shown on http://www.xe.com/ict/ was 0.005034362
40,000 Hungarian forints translated to US$201.90 withdrawal on ATM on Fifth Third Bank account, = translation rate of 0.005047500, for a cost of 0.26%, or $0.53.
6,127 Hungarian forints translated to US$31.65 charge on Chase Bank VISA, = translation rate of 0.005165660, for a cost of 2.608%, or $0.80.
I'm content with the rates used.
Didn't encounter "dynamic currency conversion" anywhere in AU/HU/SK/PO/CZ.
40,000 Hungarian forints translated to US$201.90 withdrawal on ATM on Fifth Third Bank account, = translation rate of 0.005047500, for a cost of 0.26%, or $0.53.
6,127 Hungarian forints translated to US$31.65 charge on Chase Bank VISA, = translation rate of 0.005165660, for a cost of 2.608%, or $0.80.
I'm content with the rates used.
Didn't encounter "dynamic currency conversion" anywhere in AU/HU/SK/PO/CZ.
Jun 29th, 2005, 01:52 PM
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tomboy,
Did you notice that your ATM conversion was actually a better rate than credit card?
I found that even with my bank not adding an additional charge on Visa charges, the ATM conversion was always better than the credit card. With the new Visa language on how they determine the conversion rate, it's anyone guess how it will come out. But, experience proves that using an ATM would net a better value. May not be very practical, however.
If I were traveling again overseas I would consider using an ATM more if I were in an area where it was convenient. Eliminates the dynamic currency conversion issue that way, too. BTW, we didn't have this (dcc) anywhere - Iceland, Germany and Switzerland.
Did you notice that your ATM conversion was actually a better rate than credit card?
I found that even with my bank not adding an additional charge on Visa charges, the ATM conversion was always better than the credit card. With the new Visa language on how they determine the conversion rate, it's anyone guess how it will come out. But, experience proves that using an ATM would net a better value. May not be very practical, however.
If I were traveling again overseas I would consider using an ATM more if I were in an area where it was convenient. Eliminates the dynamic currency conversion issue that way, too. BTW, we didn't have this (dcc) anywhere - Iceland, Germany and Switzerland.
