Credit Card Info - Citibank and Others
Mar 13th, 2007, 06:00 AM
#21
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Well, NeoPatrick, the bank uses my money to make money, by loaning it to others. A fee of 1% in low, but when you add on the additional fees to get your money. I am not using a teller! Or a financial advisor to make my exchange! You must be an employee in the financial services industry. I am lucky, I travel for work and use a citi-travel card. No fees for cash withdrawls. I convert all my currency needs through that account. It is bad business to overcharge for services and yes, I do have other banking options and use them!
Mar 13th, 2007, 06:08 AM
#22
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You and I will have to just disagree I guess, and no I sure don't work for the finance industry.
Here's a thought. Since it's so simple, I'll send you $2000 cash. You hold it for me. You can do whatever you want with it including making money by lending it out. But at any second I say, while I'm in Europe you get me the amount of money I want in local cash within 5 seconds of my asking for it, and get it to me no matter what street corner I'm standing on at the time.
I'll do this in bits and pieces over a two month period. For your trouble, I'll let you keep $20 of it. Deal?
No, I'm not going to complain about paying as much as 1% for this kind of service -- and I don't care how little it costs them -- it's worth it to me.
Now if you're complaining about their charging up to 7 or 10 percent every time you make a withdrawal, then I'm totally with you. But again, if that's happening then the customer needs to find a new bank. Simple.
Here's a thought. Since it's so simple, I'll send you $2000 cash. You hold it for me. You can do whatever you want with it including making money by lending it out. But at any second I say, while I'm in Europe you get me the amount of money I want in local cash within 5 seconds of my asking for it, and get it to me no matter what street corner I'm standing on at the time.
I'll do this in bits and pieces over a two month period. For your trouble, I'll let you keep $20 of it. Deal?
No, I'm not going to complain about paying as much as 1% for this kind of service -- and I don't care how little it costs them -- it's worth it to me.
Now if you're complaining about their charging up to 7 or 10 percent every time you make a withdrawal, then I'm totally with you. But again, if that's happening then the customer needs to find a new bank. Simple.
Mar 13th, 2007, 06:38 AM
#23
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Patrick - what you say is true in principle and the banks depend upon that feeling. However AmEx built a whole empire on that philosophy - you give us your money and we give you a piece of paper (TC). The theory depends on not everyone wanting their money at once. And if they do we will close the banks and not give it to them (think depression).
The use of the money is called "float".
The use of the money is called "float".
Mar 13th, 2007, 07:25 AM
#25
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Incidentally, the networks and their partner banks shell out millions of dollars to supply you with YOUR money when you're in Europe. It's not as simple as "costs of doing business" because if they didn't do international currency, this outlay wouldn't happen. Some of the costs include:
Installation, maintenance, and programming of the computers.
Installation and maintenance of the ATMs.
Leasing the wires that connect the ATMs to the central computer.
Overhead: electricity, rent, insurance...
Installation, maintenance, and programming of the computers.
Installation and maintenance of the ATMs.
Leasing the wires that connect the ATMs to the central computer.
Overhead: electricity, rent, insurance...
Mar 13th, 2007, 08:11 AM
#26
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Rob - You are not implying that they are doing this as a goodwill jesture are you? This is a money-making venture. They are shelling out millions to take in billions.
It will be a rare day when I will hold a tag day for the banking system.
It will be a rare day when I will hold a tag day for the banking system.
Mar 13th, 2007, 10:49 AM
#27
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I just called Wachovia yesterday to ask what they charge for conversion fees. Their fees are only 1%, which is much better than all of my 3% credit cards. I dont know if this is because I have a crown account or not, but I will definitely be taking advantage of it!
Mar 13th, 2007, 11:37 AM
#28
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NeoPatrick,
I do not mind paying fees that are associated with using ATM's to get foreign currency. I am against the added charges when doing so. The banks are making hundreds of millions of dollars in these fees. If they are making that much profit from them they are too high! A bank is in business to provide a service and make money but, when they make money hand over fist something is wrong.
I do not mind paying fees that are associated with using ATM's to get foreign currency. I am against the added charges when doing so. The banks are making hundreds of millions of dollars in these fees. If they are making that much profit from them they are too high! A bank is in business to provide a service and make money but, when they make money hand over fist something is wrong.
Mar 13th, 2007, 12:59 PM
#29
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sherm, you don't seem to understand the idea of "business" or "capitalism". What you seem to be saying is that all companies like Microsoft who are making too much money, shouldn't be allowed to charge so much because they don't "need" to make billions. They should only be allowed to make millions or thousands. The same is true of any kind of business anywhere. They make as much profit as the public using their product will allow. You seem to be suggesting that the banks hold some meeting and say, "hey, we're making too much money, let's stop charging so much and cut our salaries and bonuses and stop building nice facilities. We don't need a really profitable company, let's just have a minor profit, that's all we need." Do you really believe this is the way it should be? If people think the costs are too much and they can do better, then they should stop using them. The fact is that's not going to happen. No cost of any product or service is too high if the company is still selling enough of that product to stay in business.
Mar 13th, 2007, 01:00 PM
#30
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sherm, you don't seem to understand the idea of "business" or "capitalism". What you seem to be saying is that all companies like Microsoft who are making too much money, shouldn't be allowed to charge so much because they don't "need" to make billions. They should only be allowed to make millions or thousands. The same is true of any kind of business anywhere. They make as much profit as the public using their product will allow. You seem to be suggesting that the banks hold some meeting and say, "hey, we're making too much money, let's stop charging so much and cut our salaries and bonuses and stop building nice facilities. We don't need a really profitable company, let's just have a minor profit, that's all we need." Do you really believe this is the way it should be? If people think the costs are too much and they can do better, then they should stop using them. The fact is that's not going to happen. No cost of any product or service is too high if the company is still selling enough of that product to stay in business.
It's nice to know that if you were in business and had a product you could easily sell for $100 and retire in a couple years, that you would think that was too much profit, so instead you would just sell that same product for $50 because you don't need all that money you could earn. You frankly are in the minority. Very few if any REAL business people would do that. It's nice that you would.
It's nice to know that if you were in business and had a product you could easily sell for $100 and retire in a couple years, that you would think that was too much profit, so instead you would just sell that same product for $50 because you don't need all that money you could earn. You frankly are in the minority. Very few if any REAL business people would do that. It's nice that you would.
Mar 13th, 2007, 01:27 PM
#31
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Patrick - it seems odd for me to be arguing capitalism from the opposite side. LOL.
However... I agree with you if the profit is reasonable (sale of water, generators wer not after hurricanes in our neck of the woods) and divulged (some question on this). You folks had a successful class action dispute with AmEx on divulging this didn't you?
Canada’s largest bank, the Royal Bank of Canada posted first-quarter net earnings of $1.5 billion, a 27.6-per-cent increase from the same quarter last year. Total revenues grew by 20.3 per cent to $5.7 billion.
“Well that is Canada,” you say.
RBC said it had 48-per-cent growth to $149 million in earnings in its U.S. and international personal and business segment.
You probably haven’t even seen a Royal Bank in your state.
Now if a little Canadian bank can make that kind of profit….thinnk of what the megoliths are making.
However... I agree with you if the profit is reasonable (sale of water, generators wer not after hurricanes in our neck of the woods) and divulged (some question on this). You folks had a successful class action dispute with AmEx on divulging this didn't you?
Canada’s largest bank, the Royal Bank of Canada posted first-quarter net earnings of $1.5 billion, a 27.6-per-cent increase from the same quarter last year. Total revenues grew by 20.3 per cent to $5.7 billion.
“Well that is Canada,” you say.
RBC said it had 48-per-cent growth to $149 million in earnings in its U.S. and international personal and business segment.
You probably haven’t even seen a Royal Bank in your state.
Now if a little Canadian bank can make that kind of profit….thinnk of what the megoliths are making.
Mar 13th, 2007, 04:04 PM
#32
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NeoPatrick,
You talk like a true consevative! We are at the bank's mercy since we have to use banks for all transactions these days. And please do not argue business with me. Econ and International Studies major with a minor in International Business. When a company or companies are making profits of those amounts and the customer is captive, i.e., few options for the service provided, the company if charging excessive fees. Congress is taking the banks to task and the banks are saying how they are changing some of there business practices.
The banks are charging excessive fees for the depositors to get their money, plain and simple. I do not belittle any company that makes a product or provides a service from making money. When all the companies are charing these fees, there is a problem. I own Exxon-Mobile stock and love my dividends!! I do believe in free markets but, the exchange market is not operating freely!!!
You talk like a true consevative! We are at the bank's mercy since we have to use banks for all transactions these days. And please do not argue business with me. Econ and International Studies major with a minor in International Business. When a company or companies are making profits of those amounts and the customer is captive, i.e., few options for the service provided, the company if charging excessive fees. Congress is taking the banks to task and the banks are saying how they are changing some of there business practices.
The banks are charging excessive fees for the depositors to get their money, plain and simple. I do not belittle any company that makes a product or provides a service from making money. When all the companies are charing these fees, there is a problem. I own Exxon-Mobile stock and love my dividends!! I do believe in free markets but, the exchange market is not operating freely!!!
Mar 13th, 2007, 06:00 PM
#33
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NeoPatrick, you have been properly chastised by a "Econ and International Studies major with a minor in International Business" no less. Wow, I'm impressed!!
The customer is hardly captive. Here are three websites that compare credit cards. Capitol One who everybody recommends for their no ATM fee card spends millions advertising. If we're too lazy to read the literature that comes with the CC and anytime there is a change, who is to blame?
http://cardratings.com/
http://www.creditcards.com/
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yscbw4
For good measure, this website will help to find higher interest rates for your savings:
http://www.money-rates.com/cdrates.htm
Robespierre, you neglected one cost of the CC and ATM business. Fraud. More prevalent overseas.
robjame, it is unfortunate that you didn't buy the extremely well-managed Royal Bank of Canada stock 5 years ago. It is up 180%, compared with 50% for HSBC, 60% for BankAmerica and a paltry 15% for Citicorp. Should they be penalized for being good at what they do?
The customer is hardly captive. Here are three websites that compare credit cards. Capitol One who everybody recommends for their no ATM fee card spends millions advertising. If we're too lazy to read the literature that comes with the CC and anytime there is a change, who is to blame?
http://cardratings.com/
http://www.creditcards.com/
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yscbw4
For good measure, this website will help to find higher interest rates for your savings:
http://www.money-rates.com/cdrates.htm
Robespierre, you neglected one cost of the CC and ATM business. Fraud. More prevalent overseas.
robjame, it is unfortunate that you didn't buy the extremely well-managed Royal Bank of Canada stock 5 years ago. It is up 180%, compared with 50% for HSBC, 60% for BankAmerica and a paltry 15% for Citicorp. Should they be penalized for being good at what they do?
Mar 13th, 2007, 06:35 PM
#34
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WLS, guess I'd better call the AAA card people again - I'll probably get a different answer! Let us know when you get back from Paris and your bills come in. I'm afraid if I get a Capital One card before my trip in April/May, they'll change their policies - and I really don't need (or want) anymore credit cards.
Back to the subject of Citibank - they really are anxious to get rid of the VISA cards. I couldn't believe how the guy kept trying to get me to switch to AMEX. And the reason, "You are a valued customer".
Back to the subject of Citibank - they really are anxious to get rid of the VISA cards. I couldn't believe how the guy kept trying to get me to switch to AMEX. And the reason, "You are a valued customer".
Mar 13th, 2007, 06:43 PM
#35
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<<Should they be penalized for being good at what they do?>>
Gee I don't know js - I hear that same argument used by the drug companies, by Exxon (recall 1989?), etc.
I don't think I suggested penalizing the banks. But I do think it is reasonable to expect them to display accountablity and responsibility.
“That we are overdone with banking institutions which have banished the precious metals and substituted a more fluctuating and unsafe medium [to paper, and now not even paper]…that the wars of the world have swollen our commerce beyond the wholesome limits of exchanging our own productions for our own wants, and that, for the emolument [profit] of a small proportion of our society who prefer these demoralizing pursuits to labors useful to the whole, the peace of the whole is endangered and all our present difficulties produced, are evils more easily to be deplored than remedied.”
Thomas Jefferson
Gee I don't know js - I hear that same argument used by the drug companies, by Exxon (recall 1989?), etc.
I don't think I suggested penalizing the banks. But I do think it is reasonable to expect them to display accountablity and responsibility.
“That we are overdone with banking institutions which have banished the precious metals and substituted a more fluctuating and unsafe medium [to paper, and now not even paper]…that the wars of the world have swollen our commerce beyond the wholesome limits of exchanging our own productions for our own wants, and that, for the emolument [profit] of a small proportion of our society who prefer these demoralizing pursuits to labors useful to the whole, the peace of the whole is endangered and all our present difficulties produced, are evils more easily to be deplored than remedied.”
Thomas Jefferson
Mar 14th, 2007, 06:59 AM
#37
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robjame, interesting Jefferson quote.
When Jefferson became president 20% of the population were slaves and Jefferson personally owned 200. Not too shabby for someone extolling the merits "of exchanging our own productions for our own wants". Whose production and whose wants?
When Jefferson became president 20% of the population were slaves and Jefferson personally owned 200. Not too shabby for someone extolling the merits "of exchanging our own productions for our own wants". Whose production and whose wants?
Mar 14th, 2007, 07:31 AM
#38
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Hi js - I think this horse is dead and not much sense still beating it, however...
The thing that banks "are good at" is making a profit. What they are not good at is customer service. They have forgotten what their purpose is... (cue Jimmy Stewart in "What a Beautiful Life"
.
I see lines of people in banks who have little option but to put up with poor service. Everyone has a "bank story". Just my thoughts.
The thing that banks "are good at" is making a profit. What they are not good at is customer service. They have forgotten what their purpose is... (cue Jimmy Stewart in "What a Beautiful Life"
.I see lines of people in banks who have little option but to put up with poor service. Everyone has a "bank story". Just my thoughts.
Mar 14th, 2007, 10:21 AM
#39
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WLS, I have a AAA Visa card and it does NOT charge 3 pct on foreign transactions, even though I guess MBNA and B of A merged or whatever. It depends on what card you have and when you signed up, though, I believe -- maybe even your AAA club, not sure. It has only the one pct Visa fee, which it has always had, but no addon.
SO who told you it had 3 pct now? If it was B of A staff, they usually don't know what they are talking about. If you are, you had to be told that in writing in your terms or change of terms.
AS a matter of fact, they are trying to push some new card now, I forget what it is -- some super duper credit card (I remember the guy on the phone was trying to impress me by claiming it was as pretigious as some Amex card, like who cares) that I think gives you a different percentage cashback on various things than the one I have now. They sent me that in the mail to get to switch from the current AAA Visa I have to that one. I declined as I like the one I have.
However, I noticed in the terms they sent with the offer that they said if you signed up for this new card before April 2007, I believe, they would only have the one pct foreign transaction charge, but after that they would have 3 pct. It was an incentive to get you to sign up, I guess.
SO who told you it had 3 pct now? If it was B of A staff, they usually don't know what they are talking about. If you are, you had to be told that in writing in your terms or change of terms.
AS a matter of fact, they are trying to push some new card now, I forget what it is -- some super duper credit card (I remember the guy on the phone was trying to impress me by claiming it was as pretigious as some Amex card, like who cares) that I think gives you a different percentage cashback on various things than the one I have now. They sent me that in the mail to get to switch from the current AAA Visa I have to that one. I declined as I like the one I have.
However, I noticed in the terms they sent with the offer that they said if you signed up for this new card before April 2007, I believe, they would only have the one pct foreign transaction charge, but after that they would have 3 pct. It was an incentive to get you to sign up, I guess.
Mar 20th, 2007, 10:23 AM
#40
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AAAACCCKKKK!!! I just got a letter from Bank of America regarding my former MBNA / AAA Visa...
Here is some of the news:
Current rate: 7.9%
New rate: 18.24% (Oct '07)
Current foreign trans charge: 1%
New foreign trans charge: 3% (May '07)
... and quite a few other 'treats'. What a way to retain customers, huh?
Looks like I'll be movin' on, BoA.
Here is some of the news:
Current rate: 7.9%
New rate: 18.24% (Oct '07)
Current foreign trans charge: 1%
New foreign trans charge: 3% (May '07)
... and quite a few other 'treats'. What a way to retain customers, huh?
Looks like I'll be movin' on, BoA.
