xyz123

Pegontheroad...just out of curiosity, why would you need any cash at all? When I travel, I hardly ever spend a dime in cash and car everything for exactly the same reason as you do i.e. the rewards at the end of the tunnel.

Andrew

I use credit cards for most of the big things when I travel, but I need cash for things like bus tickets, maybe a restaurant that won't accept credit cards, etc. Some B&Bs accept cash only. Sometimes it's just quicker/easier to pay a few euros in cash. So I always need some cash when I travel. But I certainly don't spend thousands in cash on a trip.

Why should I worry about a $5 ATM fee? Because it's $5 for nothing. I might as well just flush a $5 bill down the toilet. My credit union charges me $0 per withdrawal. If you want to belong to a bank that charges you fees for no service, be my guest. That's how those big for-profit banks make their money: by charging fees people will put up with in exchange for nothing. I prefer not to give away my money to big corporations when receiving nothing in return, even if it's just $5 a pop. And I get great service from my credit union - no bank could be better.

Also, I don't want to carry a lot of cash around. I prefer to use the ATM here and there to get some cash as I need it. And sometimes you visit a country for a few days that has an odd currency - and I don't want to take out a lot and be stuck with it. Do I really want to hang on to Bosnia BAM that I may never use again? I'd rather not pay $5 a pop to take out some and then take out too much. When you pay $0 per withdrawal, you can take out smaller amounts and not worry about it so much.

janisj

xyz always advises that no one needs cash. He definitely travels differently than I do. IMO/IME it is rude to use cc's for very small purchases in countries where the merchant has to pay onerous fees.

bvlenci

<i> Why should I worry about a $5 ATM fee? Because it's $5 for nothing. I might as well just flush a $5 bill down the toilet. </i>

As I said before, if you don't travel often, it's not worth the time and hassle you'd invest to research a new card and open a new account. Don't you pay more for a lot of other things in order to save time and hassle? Like a taxi from the airport instead of a metro?

I've noticed that some people who are willing to do cartwheels to avoid foreign transaction fees are willing on the other hand to throw money down the toilet buying overpriced rail passes. I've decided that for a lot of them, having a fee-free credit card is something they can talk about to impress their friends about what sophisticated travelers they are.

Andrew

bvlenci: <i>As I said before, if you don't travel often, it's not worth the time and hassle you'd invest to research a new card and open a new account. Don't you pay more for a lot of other things in order to save time and hassle? Like a taxi from the airport instead of a metro?</i>

I don't take taxis to the airport when I travel, but at least I see the value in it: taking a taxi saves you time and some hassle. Paying $5 to your bank for using an ATM doesn't buy you anything.

I dumped my big bank years ago for a credit union not because I travel but because they offer lower fees, better rates, and better service. The ATM fee is just another example.

<i>I've noticed that some people who are willing to do cartwheels to avoid foreign transaction fees are willing on the other hand to throw money down the toilet buying overpriced rail passes. I've decided that for a lot of them, having a fee-free credit card is something they can talk about to impress their friends about what sophisticated travelers they are.</i>

Actually, I'm just frugal. I don't buy rail passes, either, but again - I can see the value in them, the convenience. I don't see any value in an ATM fee.

bvlenci

I guess you've never heard of opportunity cost.

You chose your bank for general convenience and service, and the fact that they have no foreign transaction fees is incidental. That's fine. But people in posts above are advising people to open a new account just to get a card with no foreign transaction fees, regardless of all other considerations. If in order to get that card they have to spend hours researching cards and reading the fine print, and then live with a bank that's less convenient for them in other ways, or maintain an additional account just for travel, <b> and </b> if they only take a foreign vacation once every two years, they'll have thrown time down the toilet, which is maybe even worse than throwing money down the toilet.

No bank is in the philanthropy business. They get their money out of you in one way or another.

xyz123

I understand many people have differing views on the use of charge cards as opposed to cash and yes janisj some of it depends on which country one is in. Countries such as Germany and the Netherlands have a long tradition of cash is king although that may be changing. I myself rarely use cash unless I absolutely have to and would love countries like Sweden which have all but abandoned cash and do most everything via cards. But yes I am a cheap person and don't wish to pay fees that are asinine and just plain rip offs.

One suggestion I have made to people is to open up an internet bank account specifically for travel which has no atm fees and will reimburse fees from other banks, admittedly rare in Europe, for having the gall to use their machines.

I also, and again forgive me if you disagree, the attitude some have that you don't use cards for small purchases because the more you use the card, the more it might be compromised. That happens to be true but the obvious solution is to have several cards with you on a trip just in case one gets compromised.

But I would readily admit none of this is really important in the scheme of things.

Andrew

bvlenci: <i>I guess you've never heard of opportunity cost.</i>

I have heard of it. But I disagree with you.

<i>You chose your bank for general convenience and service, and the fact that they have no foreign transaction fees is incidental. That's fine.</i>

Yes - my credit union is convenient and has great service. And it has fewer or no fees compared to many big banks. Free ATM use when I travel is one of those benefits.

<i>But people in posts above are advising people to open a new account just to get a card with no foreign transaction fees, regardless of all other considerations. If in order to get that card they have to spend hours researching cards and reading the fine print, and then live with a bank that's less convenient for them in other ways, or maintain an additional account just for travel, and if they only take a foreign vacation once every two years, they'll have thrown time down the toilet, which is maybe even worse than throwing money down the toilet.</i>

Hours of research - really? I don't think it takes that long.

<i>No bank is in the philanthropy business. They get their money out of you in one way or another.</i>

I couldn't agree more. That's a big reason I don't do business with banks and use credit unions instead.

Trophywife007

Jancantravel: I do hope you got some useful information from this thread; I know I did. My main advice would be to have more than one credit card and debit card with you.

My BoA debit card does not always work in every ATM due, I think, to the 6 digit pin and when it does work I get charged $5 plus a 3% foreign transaction fee. For my 2nd debit card, I decided to open a Cap One 360 acct. and have been pleased by the exchange rates plus escaping the usual fees charged by the banks.

There are several credit cards that don't charge foreign transaction fees... I have a few and am currently looking into the Andrews FCU visa for the chip/pin capabilities.

You don't have to do any of this to enjoy your trip... all of this for me has evolved over time. The more you travel, the more you get tired of being nickel and dimed.

Just have several options including some cash so you don't get stuck.

Enjoy your trip!

jancantravel

Hello again! Thank you so much for the many responses to my question...After reading so many opinions I decided to just let my son in law pay for everything and not worry about it! Not really- that was a joke! I am looking forward to a great trip! Jan

Andrew

Jan, there's nothing wrong with accepting the 3% fees and ATM fees if you don't want to deal with it. I mean, I wouldn't, but I'm not you - just like I take the bus or train (or walk!) from the airport to my hotel instead of taking a taxi. I understand others travel differently. I think the key is simply understanding what the costs are and what your options are.

It's not hard to find a credit card that has no foreign transaction fees - lots of cards offer this now. In the past I've had an Alaska Airlines Bank of America Visa that has no foreign transaction fees - $75 annual fee but you can offset that with a $100 credit - after you spend $1,000 in three months on the card. (You also get 30,000 miles after that $1,000 spend. Just remember to cancel the card in a year:

http://milecards.com/1588421176/alas...t-30000-miles/

If you don't want to hassle with annual fees and rewards, just join Andrews Federal Credit Union and get both an ATM card (don't even need a checking account, just a savings account) and their no-annual-fee Visa card. No fees to use either one overseas.

https://www.andrewsfcu.org/join-andr...dit-union.html

I had the Visa for a few years but canceled it because I no longer needed it.

You can join Andrews - credit unions can have weird rules about whom they allow to join, but it's usually just a bureaucratic nicety - by joining a group called

Andrew

(Sorry, hit Submit too soon.)

You can join Andrews - credit unions can have weird rules about whom they allow to join, but it's usually just a bureaucratic nicety - by joining a group called the American Consumer Council (ACC) for $5:

http://www.americanconsumercouncil.org/

I joined (used to be free) so I could join Andrews - very easy. I don't live in Maryland and have never visited a branch and haven't needed to.

But I do travel overseas once a year or so, so having these cards makes sense for me. As I said: you can just not worry about it, but it's not that hard to join, either.

Trophywife007

I just joined Andrews FCU by first joining the ACC... it's a lot easier now to get it all done electronically than a few years ago when I first tried and found it to be pretty glitchy and just gave up.

Cap One has a credit card that has no foreign transaction fees and no annual fees, in addition to the 360 checking for the ATM card.

There are quite a few options out there, depending on how much time you wish to spend.

Chase also has a number of credit cards with no foreign transaction fees. I use their BA card but there are several others with varying benefits.

I'd think the credit card would have priority, since many of us try to use it for the major expenses rather than using cash. The ATM fees really are not huge unless you are using cash for lodging and food.

Please let us know how your trip goes!

Trophywife007

Having your son-in-law is probably the best idea going. Good luck with that! D)

Jill02

I don't travel often enough to know all the rules like many of the experts on this site so I thought I'd jump in with a question:

When we went to Turkey five years ago, we "couldn't" use credit cards for whatever reason (fees? Lack of acceptance?) and so we just did 2-3 large ATM withdrawals for $5 each and that worked out.

Last year in Japan, the ATM withdrawal fees were either free or very high - I didn't take the time to figure out why. The charges were not from my bank- B of A.

In Prague, we charged everything and received a lousy conversion rate when we received our statement.

I'm American and have plenty of credit cards with no foreign transaction fee. But in terms of exchange rates and possible other costs, is it best to buy Euros in the US prior to departure? Do ATM withdrawals abroad or charge as much as possible? Or (D) none of the above?

We are going to Spain and Portugal in April and will spend about $2,000.

Thank you!

Andrew

I have never been to Japan. In Europe, to my knowledge, I have never been charged any ATM fee in a dozen countries. I've spot checked the exchange rates a few times, on both credit card and ATM withdrawals, and they all seemed what they should have been based on historical rates for the days in question.

So I see no need to buy Euros in the US before going to Europe. I can't really see how I'll get a better rate than using an ATM in Europe. And with a credit card with truly no foreign transaction fees, I see no need to use cash unless I have to.

If you want to avoid ATM fees, get a credit union account and an ATM card - and use that instead of your Bank of America debit card. (Some of us have separate accounts just for travel - also reduces your risk of your primary account being hacked due to lost ATM card, whatever.) You could get an Andrews FCU account and just a savings account, not even a checking account; you'll get a simple ATM card good for ATM machines only - no "Visa" logo even because it is not a debit card. You can also get an Andrews Visa - no foreign exchange fee, no annual fee, but no serious rewards program. But as a bonus, it is conditional "chip and PIN" meaning you can use it at automated machines with a PIN, if needed.

I like to sign up for some new rewards credit card before a big trip, some card that has both no foreign transaction fees and some sort of minimum spend to get the bonus, and use that on my trip. There are lots of offers - Southwest Airlines Chase Visa has no foreign transaction fee for example (at least, not the Premier card) though they won't waive the annual fee. The Bank of America Alaska Airlines card I mentioned above. Many others.

StCirq

<<I'm American and have plenty of credit cards with no foreign transaction fee.>>

I find that very hard to believe unless you bank at one of a handful of credit unions (Andrews, Penn Federal...), or one of a very, very few regular banks with no fees. Almost every U.S. bank I know of charges at least a 1%, often 3%, transaction fee, and many of them charge you a flat fee for overseas ATM withdrawal as well. Are you sure you've really been paying attention? On any given transacation 1%-3% isn't necessarily much, but it's just money your bank is taking from you, and you don't need to let them do it. I assume you also know that getting cash in Europe from an ATM using a credit card is a terrible idea - you start paying interest the minute the cash is in your hand.

No, don't buy euros in advance; it costs a fair bit to buy euros in American in advance of a trip. Probably not much compared to the cost of your trip, but still entirely unnecessary. Get euros out of an ATM as soon as you get there.I've never encountered a European ATM that charged me a fee, and I travel around to a lot of countries on this continent. I don't get rewards for my credit union accounts, but that's OK, as I find it a PITA to keep track of rewards and go through the hassle of cashing them in anyway.

xyz123

In general, exchanging one currency for another is the most expensive way to go whether you do it in the US or upon arrival in Europe or wherever you are going. Here's why. There is something called the interbank rate which is sort of (not really but close enough) the official rate of exchange between currencies. It is the rate banks use among themselves to settle exchanges of millions. That is the rate listed on xe.com. For example it might say £1 = $1.25. That rate changes constantly depending on factors that we don't need to go into here. But...

You will never get that rate. Instead the exchanger will add fees to it either in its quote of the exchange rate or other fees. You will be lucky, using the example above, if you don't pay at least $1.37 for each £ (10% markup) whether you do it in the USA or upon arrival. You can check xe.com anytime you wish and compare it to what you are being quoted.

But if you take money from an ATM upon arrival, the shared teller networks generally use the interbank rate with a much smaller markup; as little as 0%. In general, the local bank does not charge fees. Your bank may or may not. so obviously, ATM's are the way to go for cash.

What we've been discussing here is what happens when you use your credit card for purchases in a foreign currency. In general, the major credit card networks use the interbank rate and charge among themselves 1% above the interbank rate. Your bank then decides what to do when they bill you some banks eat that 1% (no foreign transaction fees), some just pass along the 1% (1% foreign transaction fees) some near criminal banks add an additional 2% (3% ftf). Every bank makes its fees clear when you acquire their card.

It is for that reason I am a proponent of using cards lacking ftf's for everything when travelling and avoiding using cash. If you need cash, you should be using ATM's after checking what fees your bank wishes to rip you off with.

To each his or her own.

northie

Well my chip and pin card (no signing cards in Oz at all) has not been accepted once in Europe so I have to sign every time whereas my husband who is with a different bank has no problems.

Trophywife007

Jill02: You've received lot's of good advice here... one last thing is to remember to go online or phone to inform your banking/credit card institutions what countries and dates you'll be using your cards overseas.