StCirq

I belong to two credit unions, neither of which charges me anything for transactions on my debit cards (I use my Carte Bleu for credit card purchases, but that's irrelevant to someone living in the USA). Both are true chip & pin cards, so they work fine in Europe. In addition to unmanned gas stations, toll booths and ticket machines can be problematic for people who have only chip & signature cards, but I don't see that as a huge hassle. Most American visitors to Europe have only chip & signature cards and I don't see a lot of them fainting on the sidewalks.

xyz123

Dogearead...I won't argue with a word you said but my question for you is are you from the US? The reality is very few banks issue chip and pin cards here and even those are broken into two categories; the very few that will always default to pin and a few more that can default to pin although some have reported difficulty with some of these cards in automatic kiosk and automated petrol pump situations. And what's even worse. Some of the customer service reps at some of the banks don't have a clue as to what you're talking about when you start asking about pins.

People by all means should try to get a "true" chip and pin card. I've made suggestions where you might find them but I would not make any of them my primary card. When searching for a primary card, pin is a lower priority than no annual fee and no foreign transaction fee and a decent rewards program. I don't think there's any need to quibble about that.

Dogeared

Yes we are in agreement really xyz123. The sad reality is that Americans are poorly served in this regard by their banks. The whole world has moved on and the US banks have fallen behind.

Heimdall

<i>"The sad reality is that Americans are poorly served in this regard by their banks."</i>

My American bank, USAA, had chip & pin once upon a time for its overseas residents, but switched to chip & signature when it introduced chip cards for everyone. I live in the UK, and apart from the minor irritation of having to sign for my purchases haven't really noticed much difference. I can make most small purchases with Apple Pay on my iPhone, so don't even take the credit card out of my wallet most of the time.

Speaking of "poorly served by their banks" most Brits take wads of cash with them on their holidays because the transaction charges by their banks are so high.

xyz123

It really does depend on what you consider your priorities and as an additional thought, I would never travel with only one card in case it gets compromised. It would be nice to have pins but for Americans it is simply not all that convenient to get one, there are other things more important when travelling including foreign transaction fees and rewards programs. It really should not present all that much of a problem. As a matter of fact, my biggest complaint about chip and signature cards is that most of the time the clerks has to start hunting for a pen for me to sign the signature slip. Haven't they ever heard of signature pads?

Dogeared

Heimdall, the UK is one of the best served countries in terms of cards with ZERO exchange loading. So when you say that, "most Brits take wads of cash with them on their holidays because the transaction charges by their banks are so high.", all you are saying is that most of the Brits you know are not smart enough to know which cards to get or are simply living in the past. When I lived in the UK people were taking cash as you say and also Traveller's Cheques which went the way of the Dodo decades ago.

The UK is also well served with one of the best online resources for finding the right cards to use when travelling. Moneysavingexpert is a continuously updated source of information on the topic. You'll find the best cards for a traveller from the UK to be using, here: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/tra...l-credit-cards

Xyz123, my wife and I travel with 2 cards each. A mix of both Visa and Mastercard, all Chip and Pin from 3 different banks.

I keep having difficulty with your acceptance of the shortcoming of US banks in regard to Chip and Pin xyz123. It is not a question of there are higher priorities. Why can't you have ALL priorities including Chip and PIN access met? You write there are more important things as if that means it's OK to accept less than what is ideal for something else when in fact a better answer does exist.

If one car manufacturer has a car for sale with X features and sells for $Y but it has no anti-lock brakes and another manufacturer has a car for sale with all of the same features but with anti-lock brakes and at the same price, do you say, oh well, the chances of my needing anti-lock brakes isn't that high a priority, I'll settle for poorer brake features because the dealer is easier for me to get to. Or do you do the sensible thing and drive another couple of miles to the dealer who has the better car for your money?

That to me is what you are saying when you write, "for Americans it is simply not all that convenient to get one". Remember we are not talking about driving your existing car (or using your existing cards) we are talking about if you are going out to get a NEW car (or card). Why would anyone settle for less than the best available just because it is a little bit harder to get the best? That makes no sense to me whatsoever.

It's the acceptance of an inferior product that I find hard to understand.

Andrew

Sorry, I think you're making waaaaay too much of a fuss about chip and PIN credit cards. It's REALLY not that big of a deal for travelers, except in the few circumstances I mention. Getting gas for a rental car from an automated pump is probably the only case I can imagine really being a problem.

janisj

Heck - one of my credit unions hasn't even switched over to chip/signature. Still only mag stripe on its visa and I often use it as a 2nd back up. Used it last week in London.

All this angst over signature vs PIN?

Andrew

I will say, my chip and signature card worked almost everywhere, even at many machines, on my last trip to Europe, and I would not have wanted only a mag strip card. I'm sure mag strip would have worked at hotels and probably restaurants, but having the chip and signature card to buy tickets for buses, trains, and museums from machines was a time saver. It was nice to have a chip and PIN card in the wallet as a backup, but I really needed it only once where the chip and signature card didn't work.

Heimdall

Dogeared, you like to 'stir the pot', don't you? ;-)

One of the most frequently asked questions by Brits on TripAdvisor is "Should I buy my euros in the UK or wait until I get to Greece" or words to that effect. Perhaps the TripAdvisor posters aren't as intelligent as you.

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Search...eece__2E__html

kureiff

Just back from two weeks in Paris and London: zero issues with not having a chip and pin card.

Dogeared

Heimdall, I can assure you that most of the people posting on TripAdvisor aren't as intelligent as me.

There is no doubt many people still travel with cash. But that isn't because they are 'poorly served by their banks' which is what you suggested, it is because they aren't knowledgeable enough (I'll forego commenting on the connection to intelligence)to know there is a better way.

What I find difficult to understand is why, when someone finds out there is a better way, they do not avail themselves of that better way. I am not in the habit of accepting second best, are you?

I don't care if there is only a 1 in 1000 chance of something being a hassle. If I have a choice of a card that allows that hassle to exist or a card that avoids that hassle entirely, I know which card I would get. There is in fact only one logical choice.

I don't see anyone here saying anything other than they are willing to accept the hassle, they are willing to accept second best. Accepting second best is a habit that many people have and it is a bad habit to have. No one here is trying to say that Chip and Signature is best. They are actually acknowledging that it is in fact second best and they are settling for that.

No one can actually justify accepting second best when best is available to them, no matter how much they think they can.

"There is only one real sin, and that is to persuade oneself that the second-best is anything but the second-best”
― Doris Lessing

StCirq

But unless people LIVE in Europe, as I do, or travel there incessantly, which is rarely the case, having a chip & pin card is only a minor setback, not a matter of second-best, just something one has to regulate when traveling to Europe.

So you plan your trips so as not to hit supermarket gas stations on Sunday...is this such a big deal?

It's probably way more of a hassle for the average American to switch banks to a credit union that gives them a chip & pin card and doesn't charge transaction fees than to find a way around paying a toll at an automatic machine in France. If they're frequent travelers, that's another story.

bvlenci

Transaction fees also aren't worth worrying about unless you travel a lot.

Heimdall

Americans may find this strange, but supplying cash to travellers is a big business in the UK, not only for banks and travel agencies, but also department stores, supermarkets, and even the Post Office. Brits can even order their travel euros online and have them delivered to their homes. You have to ask yourself why this is so, and it's not "because they aren't knowledgeable enough."
https://www.compareholidaymoney.com/...ency/euros.php

Dogeared

Are people so blind that they cannot actually see what they say?

"So you plan your trips so as not to hit supermarket gas stations on Sunday...is this such a big deal?"

Is that not a case of, 'persuading oneself that the second-best is anything but the second-best'?

WHY should anyone have to plan to avoid buying gas on a Sunday? There is a better answer. WHY should anyone be willing to accept the second best answer? Is getting the right card to avoid having to avoid buying gas on a Sunday 'such a big deal'? Turn your own question around.

Bvlenci, I agree. Those who travel once a year for a 2 week vacation which results in them spending let's say $1000 on which they pay exchange loading, may not feel it necessary to worry about paying 2.5% extra. It would only be $25 dollars after all.

But note how the same people who say Chip and PIN is not important will say that getting a card with no transaction fees is MORE important. So saving $25 is more important than getting stuck on a Sunday or having to plan around it. LOL

They are obviously capable of, persuading themselves that second best is something other than second best.

Heimdall, I don't know what point you are trying to make about Brits travelling with cash. So what? What does it have to do with the topic here of which cards to get? Are you trying to suggest that Brits have found a better answer than using cards?

I also don't know why you are fixated on Brits. Plenty of people from the USA, Canada, etc. also travel with cash. I can get foreign cash delivered to my home in 24 hours by my bank here in Canada if I wanted to. There is nothing unique about the UK in any regard.

You write, 'you have to ask yourself why'. OK, well I've asked myself and gave my answer. But if you believe there is another answer, rather than telling me to ask myself again, why don't you tell me the answer as to why they take cash. I'd honestly like to hear what you think it is.

Cjar

Whew! I feel Ike some of us should just take a deep breath and count to ten.

We don't have a true chip and pin and had no problems on our last trip to Europe, but I can see how that could be inconvenient. Unfortunately, as many have noted , it's not very easy to acquire a true chip and pin in the US.
We carry a Charles Schwab debit card, a Capital One credit card and one other credit card just in case. Our Capital One was compromised a few years back in Rome. Luckily it was the end of our trip, but it is a good idea to have a spare.

I did switch to a Capital One Venture card when we first started traveling as well as opening the Schwab account because both had no foreign transaction fees and Schwab will reimburse debit card charges.

Jancantravel, I hope you got the information you were looking for. Sometimes the community can get very passionate about their opinions. Don't let that scare you off from asking questions in the future. A little more information to start is helpful as well as any information you've found out all ready, so people know best how to help you.Most fodorites are well intentioned and helpful. Have a great trip.

xyz123

Dogeared...Again, you are a bit too dramatic. While it would have been better for the USA to have issued chip and pin cards more universally, it is what it is. Calling chip and signature cards second class is really not true and might lead to confusion with people trying to get something that is really not readily available and set off panic the way I have seen this issue confused by travel writers and others.

Let's be clear. Any card with a chip will work 99% of the time, even in many automated fuel pumps and train kiosks. Period. Stop scaring people. Yes I understand in those few cases where merchants are knowingly violating their merchant's agreements which say all valid mastercard and visa cards must be honored, pin or not and the frustration that one would feel, it simply does not happen all that often. Are you able to tell people where they can get a "true" chip and pin card? And the ones I know of, do not have rewards programs as good as many of the cards you called "second class". I am afraid the battle for chip and pin, at least in the United States, has been lost whether you or I like it or not. Panicking people with misinformation is simply not helpful.

Dogeared

I think the topic has been adequately covered. Everyone is entitled to make their own decision. As for second best, yes, signature cards are second best. That is simply undeniable but people can settle for them if they wish.

Case closed as far as I am concerned.

Pegontheroad

I just have to get in on this! When I'm spending multiple thousands of dollars on my trip, I don't worry about the minor stuff. My bank charges (or somebody charges) $5.000 for a withdrawal, no matter how much I withdraw, so I usually get $500 at a whack. If I have euros left over, I just use them on my next trip.

I usually withdraw just a couple of thousand, so I pay maybe $20.00 per trip. The rest, especially the big stuff, I put on my Mileage Plus Explorer card, which has no foreign transaction fee. True, it costs me $100 per year, but it has enough benefits that I don't mind paying it.

Periodically (like this April) I get enough frequent flyer miles that I can go to Europe for less than $100 in taxes and fees.