I'm in Rome right now. When I arrived, I immediately made reservation for our overnight trip from Milan to Barcelona. I have the railpass for 1st class (over 25YO). I could not believe that for 2 couchette, it costed me over 100 euros to reserve. We got 2 couchettes in a 4 couchette compartment. I could of flown on Ryan Air for 20 euros a person and get there in 2 hours!! I am very shocked at this. Why is it so expensive? I thought that Rick Steves said Couchette is the way to go, costing only 20E/person. Or, is that price only for 2nd class ticket holders? Can I make a reservation for 2nd class couchette even though I have a 1st class railpass? I wanted a sleeper but could not believe it would cost me almost 300E to do that! Anyone w/any experience please let me know.

One of the real values of this forum, is to let others learn from your experience(s)...

<< Ryan Air for 20 euros a person and get there in 2 hours!! >>

Perhaps if you had incorporated this knowledge into your overall intra-Europe transportation strategy, it might have altered this decision...

<< I have the railpass for 1st class... >>

You ask...

<< Why is it so expensive? >>

...because people continue to pay it... intoxicated, perhaps, by the notion that train travel is the way to get from point A to (distant) point B in Europe. Flying is almost always better, (since the advent of low-cost intra-Europe air carriers) when the train trip is going to be more than 4-6 hours.

Best wishes,

Rex

Most overnight trains are in the range of 25-30 euros for a place in a 4- or 6-person couchette.

Your train, the Elipsos Hotel train is one of the newer in theory more modern overnight trains that charge a premium price.

So though rick Steves is rather dated in the 20 euro thing i usually pay 25 euros or so - a bargain compared to a hotel, which you save - even at 100 euros for two that probably equates to a hotel price.

Yes you can reserve a 2nd-class couchette or sleeper with a first class ticket but on this train it would cost about the same. In fact i don't think they call these Elipsos things 1st or 2nd class but have a set price for the sleeping accommodation regardless of class.

That said there are some deluxe doubles and singles that may require a first class pass and these cost a lot more but inlcude shower/WC in the room.

The Ryan air 20 euro price is also a bit of a come on. Ryan Air has not become one of the world's most profitably airlines by selling seats at 20 euros each - check add on fees for baggage - transit to airport each way, etc. Many people complain about these and other fees.

I could of flown on Ryan Air for 20 euros a person and get there in 2 hours!!

Add the cost of the bus from Milan to Bergamo and from Girona to Barcelona + the time spent on transportation. Then add the various taxes which come on top of Ryanair advertised price of €20 (airport tax, luggage tax, compulsory insurance tax, etc) and you'll probably reach a total of €100 ++ for two.

I've never understood the attraction of an overnight train between Italy and Spain. I would prefer one of the overnight ferries instead of a train (if there were no convenient flights) and it seems the price is competitive. 110E per person for a twin cabin. Cheaper if you don't want cabins.

Hi T,

The cost of the train is about the same as the plane, when you include transfers to/from airports, excess luggage charges and additional fees and taxes on the plane.

In addition, you save the price of a hotel room.

Elipsos services are somewhat more upscale than some other overnight services; Gran Class, for example, includes both an ensuite toilet and shower, similar to some German Nacht Zug and CityNightLine services.

Everyone is different and has different needs and different tastes which perhaps helps rto explain why some "prefer" trains, others "prefer" ferry services, and still others "prefer" to fly.

All have advantages and disadvantages.

I'm sorry but I disagree with Rex's generalization that "flying is almost always better.
If everyone thought that then the trains would obviously no longer be running and i suspect those who take others means of transport think they have made the "right decision," too.

I know the train is not a big money saver, but have really enjoyed doing an overnight train on occasion. It is most always closer and easier to get to a train station within a major city than out to the airport, so seems less a hassle for me and more 'european' and civilized somehow. Airports I see all the time, train stations mostly only when I am in Europe.

Thanks to everyone's response and opinions. I guess at this point, I just have to suck it up and pay. I don't believe I paid for the Ellipso service that someone talked about. It's just a T4 compartment, with a 1st class rail ticket. I guess I can go T6 and pay less, if they let me. I paid for my couchette reservation at the train station, not at a travel agency. Lesson learned, no more rail passes in the future. Since most of the trains are Eurostars, the supplement is just not worth it for 1st class. I wonder if it's less for 2nd class.

Hi T,

>Lesson learned, no more rail passes in the future.

Nope. Sometimes railpasses are less expensive than point-to-point tickets. You have to do the numbers.

You left off this half of the sentence, Dukey...

<< when the train trip is going to be more than 4-6 hours. >>

And as to your assertion that...

<< If everyone thought that then the trains would obviously no longer be running... >>

...surely the trains sell 95+% of their tickets to travelers on trips of under 6 hours. Probably 90+% for trips of under 4 hours. Trains are mostly for Europeans, not visitors from other continents, so naturally shorter trips are what keep the trains running.

And I don't know where to find relevant statistics - - but I bet there are dozens more city pairs for which air passenger numbers greatly exceed train passenger numbers. In fact, I really can't think of a pair of cities (6 hours apart by train) for which train ridership would come close to air travel numbers. Maybe some city pairs (of which at least one is located) in central or eastern Europe?

Budapest-Krakow could be an example, I guess.

What train route of six hours or more would you propose as preferable (and generates more ridership)... train over plane?

I think you're right about railpass. Often people seem to automatically think they need them if they plan to travel by train. When actually buying individual tickets would work out just as well, or better.

And I know at least once I booked a 1st class private sleeper (wagon-lit, this was Switzerland) as a supplement to a 2nd class ticket.

>What train route of six hours or more would you propose as preferable (and generates more ridership)... train over plane?

For example two mid-sized cities cities without major airports.

As soon as you need to change planes somewhere your travel time increases by 1-2 hours, and the hassle factor as well.
Plus, usually flights between smaller airports are far less frequent than train conenctions.