soods

Thanks Russ, you're a great help!

PalenQ

Whatever you do on the boat make sure you're on it when it plies by the most famous iconic landmark on the route for Germans I believe - the fabled Lorelei cliff - where in German mythology sirens used to lure boatmen there to crash their crafts into the cliff, to the demise

Every time I've been on these boats - zillions of times in the days when I guided groups on it - Germans will when the Lorelei pops into view burst out with some patriotic song, which I cannot remember, but rather brought tears to my eyes.

stephen Foster's song Beautiful Dreamer was said to have been inspired by the Lorelei.

the Lorelei is at the deepest part of the Rhine in the Rhine Gorge and at its most narrow point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorelei

http://www.young-germany.de/topic/li...of-the-lorelei

PalenQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_66H6LLRVco

The rather maudlin IMO Lorelei song that Germans en masse sing when going by the Lorelei Cliff.

PalenQ

Actually why bother with the boat at all? Why not just drive over the hills to the Rhine and hit the various sites Russ mentions in St Goar, etc. - getting on and off the boat is a hassle, coordinating with schedules - the view from the car is about the same as the boat in many ways, of course, and you could drive down to just before Koblenz and then cross the first bridge to the eastern bank and hit Marksburg Castle, the most impressive castle in the area to many - and not a ruined castle but intact. Then drive back to Cochem along the Mosel.

Are you going to Burg Eltz? You can easily drive there from Cochem and this is one of Germany's most famous castles - another rare one not laid to waste by armies thru the ages - it used to even be pictured on the back of the German 500 deutsche mark banknotes it is so famous. Don't miss Burg Eltz.

but why even hassle with the boat - save money by having no rail or boat fares. The boat does give commentary in English and other languages but actually IME many folks get quickly bored after an hour or so on the boat. Car seems much more leisurely.

soods

Yes we are going to Burg Eltz. Have heard great things about visiting there. We just plan to be on the boat for a short time. Another unique experience to have. Would love to hear the Germans sing! The rest of the day we'll drive along the river and visit the small towns. The cost of the train and boat is negligible compared to the other 16 days in Switzerland and Germany

PalenQ

a boat trip from Cochem that is really sweet is the much smaller skiffs that go upstream to Beilstein, over arguably the cutest part of the whole Mosel Valley - Beilstein being a tiny but well-known wine town. You can take the bus back - this is also a short easy bike trip or drive but the boat is cool.

PalenQ

http://www.hotel-haus-lipmann.de/

If you have a car you may want to stay in a smaller town like Beilstein - and here is one family-run place it seems that many Fodorites have raved about - I know nothing of it but numerous folks said it was exceptional and in a neat small town at arguably the cutest point of the whole Mosel Valley - very different than stayin gin a city like Cochem or any Rhine town.

soods

Rick Steves is a big fan of that town as well. We were able to get a lovely bed and breakfast about 10 minute walk from the center of Cochem. We will look at the Mosel boat as you suggest and make a point of seeing Beilstein. Thanks for your advise. What do you know about the Munich train and ticketing system? Confusing to say the least!

PalenQ

What do you know about the Munich train and ticketing system? Confusing to say the least!>

Well how long will you be there and how much riding the fabulous S-Bahn and U-Bahn systems or trams will you be doing. Many hotels are in the city center and many things can be reached by foot - if traveling enough, like say out to Dachau, via S-Bahn and bus) look into Day Cards for unlimited travel - just a few normal fare trips could make them a good deal.

Here is the Munich Transit System's official site telling about single tickets and Tageskarte (Day or 3-day) tickets, etc.
http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/en/ticket...ets/index.html

soods

Thanks. I've spent a lot of time looking at all of the different type of tickets and passes. Problem is, don't know how many stops each destination Is and too impatient to figure it out. I thought the same thing about reaching most places on foot as we are staying near the main train station and nothing seems far. We are going to Dachau one day, octoberfest one day, maybe the English garden, the Deutch musem or the BMW museum. The markets and shopping all by foot. Our last day trip will be to Salzburg but that's a different train, right?!

PalenQ

Our last day trip will be to Salzburg but that's a different train, right?!>

Yes trains go frequently all day to Salzburg - to save money use the Bavarian Lander Ticket where two or more can travel all day unlimited in trains in Bavaria for 27 euros - 2 more if you buy it at a ticket window - not totally sure on prices but cheap - you are restricted to regional trains like the spiffy new Meridian trains that may take up to an hour longer - but the savings are immense over regular tickets - buy the Bavarian Lander ticket in the Munich station.

PalenQ

Our last day trip will be to Salzburg but that's a different train, right?!>

www.bahn.de/en - the German Railways official site has all the schedules for the many trains from Munich's Hbs (Hauptbahnhof) to Salzburg Hbf - note the M stands for Meridian trains that can be used with the bargain Lander Ticket but if it says EC, IC or ICE or RailJet you cannot use the Bavarian Pass on those trains so be careful of which trains you board if you use the Bavarian Pass.

Russ

"...if it says EC, IC or ICE or RailJet you cannot use the Bavarian Pass on those trains..."

Those EC, IC or ICE or RailJet trains will not appear at all as long as you take steps to exclude them when you start your search. All you need to do is click on "only local transport" under "Connections - means of transport" at the DB itinerary page. Every itinerary that pops up should then be Bayern-Ticket accessible.

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

soods

Now I'm even more confused! I want the fastest train to Salzburg so we have more time there. I understood that if I purchased an ICE ticket as soon as they were available, then I would get the cheapest fare (90 days out I believe). Still not quite understanding how to buy for our 2-3 days of local trips. We decided to drive to Dachau on our way to Munich from Rothenburg, so that trip is no longer an issue.

Russ

The savings fares appear 92 days out. Your best possible price will be €29/2 each way - €58 total - on the fast trains if you can snag one before prices go up. The fastest trains take 1:30 - 1:40.

The Regional train alternative is €27 round trip w/the Bayern ticket. To maximize your time with one of these leave early on a Sat or Sun. - the BT is valid only after 9 am weekdays.

The Regional M trains take 2 hours each way - so 20-30 minutes longer. Buy tickets on the day of travel.

Does that help you understand the options? If not, ask.

Russ

Just to clarify - the round trip totals above - €58 and €27 - are the sum for two adults traveling together.

PalenQ

It's 29 euros I believe if you buy the regional pass at a ticket window so try the machine. Russ I'm sure will correct me if I am wrong!

soods

I do understand the Salzburg tickets. Now can we help me figure out the local tickets as easily?
Thanks for your patience!

PalenQ

Well you simply do the maths - how many rides will you make each day on S-Bahns, U-Bahns, trams or buses in Munich - compare them in price to the day pass or three day pass - use the site referenced above and it will be the only thing that can tell you what is best.

PalenQ

Or just take all the maths and stuff out - buy a day or 3-day pass - you won't save much more than what a cup of coffee or two or three will cost all told going that route and then ride at will.