Christmas Market Battle: Vienna/Salzburg/Munich
Nov 25th, 2014, 06:47 AM
#41
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We've been to Salzburg several times in the past and as I said at the beginning, coming to Europe with a main purpose of visiting Christmas markets is still the last thing I would ever do. But since they are obviously a part of the "local culture" we figured we might as well see them up close and personal for a change.
Nov 25th, 2014, 07:30 AM
#43
In my usual quiet way I am following too.!! 
Nov 25th, 2014, 06:35 PM
#44
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"...and various types of wreaths many of which also incorporated candles."
If any had three purple candles and one pink, they'd be Advent wreaths, seeing as Advent (the period of 4 sundays before Christmas) begins this Sunday. One candle is lit on each of the 4 sundays after which a 5th white candle is placed in the centre and lit on Christmas day. You might see these in any Catholic churches this weekend too.
Considering that Christmas Market visiting is not on your choice list of interests, I'm appreciating and enjoying the level of detail of your reporting. Thanks and well done.
You deserve all the Gluhwein, stollen, Mozart Trunk and marzipan piggies you might want to consume. Just watch your step...
If any had three purple candles and one pink, they'd be Advent wreaths, seeing as Advent (the period of 4 sundays before Christmas) begins this Sunday. One candle is lit on each of the 4 sundays after which a 5th white candle is placed in the centre and lit on Christmas day. You might see these in any Catholic churches this weekend too.
Considering that Christmas Market visiting is not on your choice list of interests, I'm appreciating and enjoying the level of detail of your reporting. Thanks and well done.
You deserve all the Gluhwein, stollen, Mozart Trunk and marzipan piggies you might want to consume. Just watch your step...
Nov 25th, 2014, 07:20 PM
#45
Original Poster
Mathieu, I did not notice (but will take a closer look while out and about today) but I strongly suspect some of them were, in fact, Advent wreaths incorporating at least one "rose" hued candle. These items were not as in evidence in the other Christmas markets as they seem to be here.
Last night we opted to have dinner in our hotel, the Elefant, which is one of the much older buildings in town. We stayed here when we first visited Salzburg more than 20 years ago and we decided to return. It is a nicely modest place and we enjoy staying in these sorts of places as much as we do in so-called "high end" establishments.
The food last night was simple and, we thought, well-prepared in a friendly atmosphere with wonderful service.
The Old Town itself is decorated with lots of holiday lights in the narrow streets and, as said upthread, there are plenty of visitors but it somehow doesn't seem mobbed in any way.
Later today the plan is to visit a couple of the other churches and perhaps the Residenzgalerie. We don't feel very compelled to do a lot and are simply enjoying being here.
And as is not unusual for us, we have been gathering home renovation ideas since we are about to undertake the complete re-do our our guest room bathroom. The Park Hyatt in Vienna gave us all sorts of ideas as to possible fixtures and at one point I was taking pictures of faucets and sinks with my phone!!!!
Last night we opted to have dinner in our hotel, the Elefant, which is one of the much older buildings in town. We stayed here when we first visited Salzburg more than 20 years ago and we decided to return. It is a nicely modest place and we enjoy staying in these sorts of places as much as we do in so-called "high end" establishments.
The food last night was simple and, we thought, well-prepared in a friendly atmosphere with wonderful service.
The Old Town itself is decorated with lots of holiday lights in the narrow streets and, as said upthread, there are plenty of visitors but it somehow doesn't seem mobbed in any way.
Later today the plan is to visit a couple of the other churches and perhaps the Residenzgalerie. We don't feel very compelled to do a lot and are simply enjoying being here.
And as is not unusual for us, we have been gathering home renovation ideas since we are about to undertake the complete re-do our our guest room bathroom. The Park Hyatt in Vienna gave us all sorts of ideas as to possible fixtures and at one point I was taking pictures of faucets and sinks with my phone!!!!
Nov 26th, 2014, 06:25 AM
#46
Original Poster
A bit warmer and dryer today, perhaps edging closer to 50 degrees F but still totally overcast.
Two different churches this morning, the first being the Franciscan church which is one of the oldest in the city. At one point the church tower was ordered removed because it was higher than those of the nearby cathedral. Over the years the architecture has been "re-worked" both inside and outside with the inside ending up in the not unexpected (around here) baroque.
At least one reviewer on Trip Advisor described the place as being "more authentic than the Dom" which I disagree with. Different for sure; more authentic, no.
The dramatic high altar done up in red marble and lots of gold leaf is backdropped by a so-called "rosary" of chapels with elaborately carved ceilings, colorful paintings, and what look to be reliquaries on the altars. Several of the columns have remnants of ancient fresco work, some of which is rather primitive in nature.
Dramatic stations of the cross are done as large oil paintings in the narthex.
We also toured the exterior of the St. Peter monastery which sits at the base of the fortress "hill." The monastery cemetery alone is worth a visit with its many gated crypts built into the side of the hill as well as the elaborate metal "headstones" over the open air graves.
A large waterwheel replaces the original at the end of the "almcanal" and drives a generator which provides electricity to the monastery bakery nearby.
We paid to take the short funicular ride up to the Festung (fortress) Hohensalzburg. The view of the city and the surrounding countryside are worth the ascent. Various rooms and chambers are on view including a supposed "torture chamber" the Vulture Tower, the cannon gallery, a marionette museum, etc. In the inner courtyard (yet another!!!) small Christmas market has been set up but is not yet open.
One other thing you get in Salzburg with all these churches is a lot of bell ringing. Fortunately the walls of our hotel are very thick and those along with the double glazing keeps the sound very faint.
We stopped at the daily farmer's market where all kinds of vegetables, both` familiar and not so familiar, were on offer along with candy and other goodies.
The raclette stand at the Dom Christmas market was doing a land office business I noticed.
Two different churches this morning, the first being the Franciscan church which is one of the oldest in the city. At one point the church tower was ordered removed because it was higher than those of the nearby cathedral. Over the years the architecture has been "re-worked" both inside and outside with the inside ending up in the not unexpected (around here) baroque.
At least one reviewer on Trip Advisor described the place as being "more authentic than the Dom" which I disagree with. Different for sure; more authentic, no.
The dramatic high altar done up in red marble and lots of gold leaf is backdropped by a so-called "rosary" of chapels with elaborately carved ceilings, colorful paintings, and what look to be reliquaries on the altars. Several of the columns have remnants of ancient fresco work, some of which is rather primitive in nature.
Dramatic stations of the cross are done as large oil paintings in the narthex.
We also toured the exterior of the St. Peter monastery which sits at the base of the fortress "hill." The monastery cemetery alone is worth a visit with its many gated crypts built into the side of the hill as well as the elaborate metal "headstones" over the open air graves.
A large waterwheel replaces the original at the end of the "almcanal" and drives a generator which provides electricity to the monastery bakery nearby.
We paid to take the short funicular ride up to the Festung (fortress) Hohensalzburg. The view of the city and the surrounding countryside are worth the ascent. Various rooms and chambers are on view including a supposed "torture chamber" the Vulture Tower, the cannon gallery, a marionette museum, etc. In the inner courtyard (yet another!!!) small Christmas market has been set up but is not yet open.
One other thing you get in Salzburg with all these churches is a lot of bell ringing. Fortunately the walls of our hotel are very thick and those along with the double glazing keeps the sound very faint.
We stopped at the daily farmer's market where all kinds of vegetables, both` familiar and not so familiar, were on offer along with candy and other goodies.
The raclette stand at the Dom Christmas market was doing a land office business I noticed.
Nov 27th, 2014, 06:40 AM
#47
Original Poster
This afternoon we took a short walk around the area. It gets dark early at this time of year but at least today we actually had saw the skies clear up and the sun was out.
There are several bridges across the river Salzach and one which is exclusively pedestrian is adorned non both sides and from one bank to the other with the so-called love locks in the usual varying sizes and shapes.
I suppose there is probably the usual degree of stress and outrage which was so perfectly expressed on this forum when the subject was raised recently concerning the bridges in Paris, but have you ever wondered exactly where those locks actually come from?
I assumed people brought them along on their trip and I continue to think many do. However, here in Salzburg there is a jeweler's shop located within sight of the bridge which sells these locks and for an extra charge will also provide engraving. Nicely convenient. I wonder if they sell botl cutters as well.
The 'street scene' in the old town seems to consist of a combination of visitors as well as local folks and in today's case the latter seemed to be on their way home. A pair of Jehovah's Witnesses giving away copies of the "Watchtower" along with several people kneeling on cushions, some with their pet dog, caps in hand and eyes lowered begging for money.
All that against the backdrop of the fortress and the forest of church spires rising up against the sky. relatively clean sidewalks except for the usual cigarette butts. I see smoking has supposedly decreased in the US population but I wonder if that is true over here.
It has been a pleasant couple of days and we depart by train for Munich tomorrow morning. I am not sure why but when I bought the train tickets for tomorrow's trip I neglected to look closely at the timing. True, it requires no changes but it seems we will be on the "Ludwig Local" which stops at just about every possible place along the way. Beats driving I suppose.
There are several bridges across the river Salzach and one which is exclusively pedestrian is adorned non both sides and from one bank to the other with the so-called love locks in the usual varying sizes and shapes.
I suppose there is probably the usual degree of stress and outrage which was so perfectly expressed on this forum when the subject was raised recently concerning the bridges in Paris, but have you ever wondered exactly where those locks actually come from?
I assumed people brought them along on their trip and I continue to think many do. However, here in Salzburg there is a jeweler's shop located within sight of the bridge which sells these locks and for an extra charge will also provide engraving. Nicely convenient. I wonder if they sell botl cutters as well.
The 'street scene' in the old town seems to consist of a combination of visitors as well as local folks and in today's case the latter seemed to be on their way home. A pair of Jehovah's Witnesses giving away copies of the "Watchtower" along with several people kneeling on cushions, some with their pet dog, caps in hand and eyes lowered begging for money.
All that against the backdrop of the fortress and the forest of church spires rising up against the sky. relatively clean sidewalks except for the usual cigarette butts. I see smoking has supposedly decreased in the US population but I wonder if that is true over here.
It has been a pleasant couple of days and we depart by train for Munich tomorrow morning. I am not sure why but when I bought the train tickets for tomorrow's trip I neglected to look closely at the timing. True, it requires no changes but it seems we will be on the "Ludwig Local" which stops at just about every possible place along the way. Beats driving I suppose.
Nov 27th, 2014, 06:54 AM
#48
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" I see smoking has supposedly decreased in the US population but I wonder if that is true over here. "
If France is anything to go by, I doubt it. Smoking is so ingrained in the fabric of everyday European life, it would be a long slow process to combat it. I even look forward to certain tobacco smell/scents that I've come to associate with certain places in Europe, thanks to many visits as an impressionable kid.
Auf wiedersehen Osterreich, hallo Deutschland.
If France is anything to go by, I doubt it. Smoking is so ingrained in the fabric of everyday European life, it would be a long slow process to combat it. I even look forward to certain tobacco smell/scents that I've come to associate with certain places in Europe, thanks to many visits as an impressionable kid.
Auf wiedersehen Osterreich, hallo Deutschland.
Nov 27th, 2014, 08:25 AM
#49
still enjoying your trip very much, duke, albeit vicariously.
re the smoking, I think that in the UK it is greatly reduced since the ban on smoking in all public buildings, including workplaces, came in. it is just lovely to go into a pub or a restaurant and not to come out smelling of tobacco. I look at old films and TV and wonder why we put up with it.
i know what you mean about that smell of Gitanes in the metro, Mathieu, it's the only time that I miss it!
re the smoking, I think that in the UK it is greatly reduced since the ban on smoking in all public buildings, including workplaces, came in. it is just lovely to go into a pub or a restaurant and not to come out smelling of tobacco. I look at old films and TV and wonder why we put up with it.
i know what you mean about that smell of Gitanes in the metro, Mathieu, it's the only time that I miss it!
Nov 27th, 2014, 08:56 AM
#50
Original Poster
Thanks for the comments. I have decided that rather than take a taxi from the main station in Munich to the hotel we will probably get off at Munich East and get an S or U-Bahn train from there to the Marienplatz and walk the short hike from there to the hotel.
Since the Christmas market (I assume) is already set up it seems reasonable to expect that we will emerge into the thick of lebkuchen and wurst stands. Because of this thing the hotel requires a two-night minimum which happened to coincide perfectly with our plans and from what i gather the hotel is pretty much sold out.
Chinese goods or not and "bad" food or not, these things are obviously tremendously popular even if that "nobody ever buys anything" assertion is true. Some of the items really are quite tempting but I suppose one of our ever more practical readers is soon to pop up and tell us they buy "all" their Christmas market merchandise on Amazon!!!!
Since the Christmas market (I assume) is already set up it seems reasonable to expect that we will emerge into the thick of lebkuchen and wurst stands. Because of this thing the hotel requires a two-night minimum which happened to coincide perfectly with our plans and from what i gather the hotel is pretty much sold out.
Chinese goods or not and "bad" food or not, these things are obviously tremendously popular even if that "nobody ever buys anything" assertion is true. Some of the items really are quite tempting but I suppose one of our ever more practical readers is soon to pop up and tell us they buy "all" their Christmas market merchandise on Amazon!!!!
Nov 27th, 2014, 02:18 PM
#51
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I'm actually heading to a Market in Toronto this weekend. Whether made in China or wherever, I'm looking for one of those table ..... ornaments ?... that have a base with 4 candles (not a wreath) and a propeller type thing on the top that spins with the heat from the candles.
I have a small collection of them, some simple, other quite elaborate with cogs and wheels and things that turn other things, and am looking to add to the collection if I see anything unusual and exceptional.
Have you seen any of those just by chance ?
I have a small collection of them, some simple, other quite elaborate with cogs and wheels and things that turn other things, and am looking to add to the collection if I see anything unusual and exceptional.
Have you seen any of those just by chance ?
Nov 27th, 2014, 03:29 PM
#52
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These things are called Christmas pyramids in Germany - and come in all sizes, from one to two "storeys" to huge pyramids that you can barely put on a table but rather on the floor.
They originated from the Ore Mountains (Erzgebirge), but are available anywhere in Germany.
If not at the Christmas Markets then at any department store.
They originated from the Ore Mountains (Erzgebirge), but are available anywhere in Germany.
If not at the Christmas Markets then at any department store.
Nov 27th, 2014, 03:42 PM
#53
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I love those Christmas pyramid things but have never figured a way to get them home and I am not mailing anything home anymore. I have bought a lot of the wooden ornaments. Easy to bring home and love these nut crackers they make. I always thought the German markets had a rule about everything being made in Germany.
Nov 27th, 2014, 04:27 PM
#54
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The more common name for them is zimbelstern (sometimes spelled with an initial "c" instead of the "z") and yes they are very much in evidence over here and not always in the most familiar wooden form, either. The wooden ones can be absolutely huge like some of those huge nutcrackers you sometimes see.
We have also seen various metal ones at these markets as well as some small enough to fit over a rather tiny candle held in a glass container.
We have also seen various metal ones at these markets as well as some small enough to fit over a rather tiny candle held in a glass container.
Nov 27th, 2014, 05:18 PM
#55
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I hope I'm as fortunate as you on the weekend at the market to be faced with such a selection, though you are in the motherland of the 'Weinachtspyramide' and I am not, lol.
I have some wooden and some metal, some with bells or things that tinkle as they go round, and others that are silent but make patterns as they rotate. The largest I have is three layers as I couldn't safely transport anything larger back home. It's quite fascinating when you have several of different sizes and types all going together in a room which is ambiently lit.
The biggest problem for me is finding the right sized replacement candles. Too short and the heat may not get to the propeller or cause it to turn very slowly; too tall and it burns the propeller. It's pretty hard to find odd sized candles too. I now buy foot long tapers and cut them to size, but tapers being tapers... they burn too quickly.
I have some wooden and some metal, some with bells or things that tinkle as they go round, and others that are silent but make patterns as they rotate. The largest I have is three layers as I couldn't safely transport anything larger back home. It's quite fascinating when you have several of different sizes and types all going together in a room which is ambiently lit.
The biggest problem for me is finding the right sized replacement candles. Too short and the heat may not get to the propeller or cause it to turn very slowly; too tall and it burns the propeller. It's pretty hard to find odd sized candles too. I now buy foot long tapers and cut them to size, but tapers being tapers... they burn too quickly.
Nov 27th, 2014, 10:19 PM
#56
Original Poster
I'm about to decamp from the hotel in Salzburg for the train station. I have this feeling the room in Munich is not going to be read since we arrive there before noon. Now that we have had this particular discussion I will make it a point of looking out for those Christmas pyramids (new name for me and thanks for that) and will most definitely report back later today!
Nov 28th, 2014, 06:47 AM
#57
Don't have a good train ride !
No, I am not going to Munich...been there twice.
But I am following your trip!
Thanks for posting.
No, I am not going to Munich...been there twice.
But I am following your trip!
Thanks for posting.
Nov 28th, 2014, 09:10 AM
#58
Original Poster
The train ride from Salzburg to Munich and with those several stops went without incident. We got off at Munich East and transferred to the S-Bahn for the short ride to the Marienplatz.
We happened to emerge from the station at exactly noon and a whole bunch of people, many with cameras, were waiting for the glockenspiel to do its number. Since this doesn't occur every hour (at least as far as I know) we waited along with them to watch the knights joust and the men dancing.
The Christmas market is very definitely up and doing business and while not as extensive as the one in front of the rathaus in Vienna, they have managed to cram a whole bunch of those huts into the space which is dominated by a huge evergreen tree trimmed in all-white lights.
We decided to skip it for the moment and head to our hotel, the Platzl, which is only a couple of blocks away. Fortunately the room was ready and we dumped our luggage and headed around to the back for lunch.
We have often eaten at Ayinger's which is in the rear of the hotel building and faces the Hofbrauhaus. Decent bad-for-your-heart food with big portions and great service. The place is decorated for Christmas with lots of wreaths, greenery, etc. Crowded at lunchtime and overall enjoyable.
Crashed afterward for a nap and now about to go out to check out the "retail of the holidays" in the damp cold.
We happened to emerge from the station at exactly noon and a whole bunch of people, many with cameras, were waiting for the glockenspiel to do its number. Since this doesn't occur every hour (at least as far as I know) we waited along with them to watch the knights joust and the men dancing.
The Christmas market is very definitely up and doing business and while not as extensive as the one in front of the rathaus in Vienna, they have managed to cram a whole bunch of those huts into the space which is dominated by a huge evergreen tree trimmed in all-white lights.
We decided to skip it for the moment and head to our hotel, the Platzl, which is only a couple of blocks away. Fortunately the room was ready and we dumped our luggage and headed around to the back for lunch.
We have often eaten at Ayinger's which is in the rear of the hotel building and faces the Hofbrauhaus. Decent bad-for-your-heart food with big portions and great service. The place is decorated for Christmas with lots of wreaths, greenery, etc. Crowded at lunchtime and overall enjoyable.
Crashed afterward for a nap and now about to go out to check out the "retail of the holidays" in the damp cold.
Nov 28th, 2014, 10:22 AM
#59
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Dukey1, enjoying your report and taking notes (I'm planning on Vienna next year).
(DebitNM- very interested in seeing your TR, as my trip plan also includes Prague, Bratislava and Budapest!)
Though you may not have gone specifically for the Christmas markets, it is definitely something I would put on my list.
Thaanks for sharing! Looking forward to more!
(DebitNM- very interested in seeing your TR, as my trip plan also includes Prague, Bratislava and Budapest!)
Though you may not have gone specifically for the Christmas markets, it is definitely something I would put on my list.
Thaanks for sharing! Looking forward to more!
Nov 28th, 2014, 10:46 AM
#60
Original Poster
I may very well have been wrong when I said the market here in Munich is not as big as the one in Vienna. Unlike the Vienna market, the one here is not simply concentrated in front of the rathaus but rather has "branches" down several of the streets which radiate away from the Marienplatz.
The "huts" here seem to be somewhat more elaborately decorated on the fronts than those we have so far seen elsewhere. And tonight, the market here in Munich was VERY crowded.
Also unlike Vienna, there are close-by surrounding stores which are open and decorated for the holiday and the Christmas market simply acts to generate a lot of foot traffic for these other stores.
New (to us this trip) here were several huts with signs saying their merchandise is "100% German-made" as well as bread boards for sale along with various types of pottery.
Speaking of those zimbelsterns or "Christmas pyramids" there was one wurst "hut" which is, in fact, a huge animated Chrsistmas pyramid complete with lighted figures revolving above the very vigorous food sales.
Also saw one place selling "Gluhbier" and "stachelbier."
Large life-size creche set up for this market as well as at least one hut vending fish dishes; chocolate (and other substances-covered "snowballs."
That huge lighted tree in front of the Rathaus was obvioiusly trucked in; some of the natural trees along the "branch" streets decorated with colored lights. Overall a very festive atmosphere. Some very imaginative Christmas windows at retailers like Dallmayr's and Ludwig Beck. The knuckles on spits fill the windows at nearby Haxnbauer's "pig knuckle heaven" restaurant and the place was filled with happy diners.
The "huts" here seem to be somewhat more elaborately decorated on the fronts than those we have so far seen elsewhere. And tonight, the market here in Munich was VERY crowded.
Also unlike Vienna, there are close-by surrounding stores which are open and decorated for the holiday and the Christmas market simply acts to generate a lot of foot traffic for these other stores.
New (to us this trip) here were several huts with signs saying their merchandise is "100% German-made" as well as bread boards for sale along with various types of pottery.
Speaking of those zimbelsterns or "Christmas pyramids" there was one wurst "hut" which is, in fact, a huge animated Chrsistmas pyramid complete with lighted figures revolving above the very vigorous food sales.
Also saw one place selling "Gluhbier" and "stachelbier."
Large life-size creche set up for this market as well as at least one hut vending fish dishes; chocolate (and other substances-covered "snowballs."
That huge lighted tree in front of the Rathaus was obvioiusly trucked in; some of the natural trees along the "branch" streets decorated with colored lights. Overall a very festive atmosphere. Some very imaginative Christmas windows at retailers like Dallmayr's and Ludwig Beck. The knuckles on spits fill the windows at nearby Haxnbauer's "pig knuckle heaven" restaurant and the place was filled with happy diners.
