martha

All the references to "Cheap Eats" and the requests for good restaurants make me wonder if I'm the only one who just wanders around reading the posted menus a looking for a restaurant with a favorable vibe. I do look at the guides if I want to go someplace fancy (which I rarely do) or someplace with an interesting history, but otherwise I seem to have better luck on my own than with. How often do the rest of you use a guide?

Lee

Martha: How about never? Supposedly, many swear by the Michelin Guide and many others, but I've never purchased one. <BR> <BR>It seems like I just don't want one more thing that I have to figure out how to get to, make reservations, whatever. I am a "menu reader" and I try to "tap" the locals for info, also. Such things as "Where would you eat?". <BR> <BR>We stayed at Villa Rheinfels in St. Goar in "97 and the menu boasted such delicacies as pheasant, rabbit, caviar and others. Dinner easily costs $100.00+ for two. <BR> <BR>Now, I'm not totally cheap, mind you. <BR>I remember ordering "Chateau Briand" (sp) for two with a bottle of '91 Dom Perignon for $225.00 (not inc. tip) on New years' Eve in 1994 (Quail Hollow Resort, Cleveland, OH) and it was a great meal. <BR> <BR>What did we have that evening at Villa Rheinfels? Nothing. We had pizza and local beer in a little place at St. Goar. Price: $15.00 US and it was great. <BR> <BR>I take what the guidebook costs and get a nice meal with the money in some cozy little place in just about anywhere. <BR> <BR>Such is life!

Bill Irving

Martha, In my travels to Europe, I would say that I do the wandering & looking at menus about 90% of the time. Some of that time may be from restaurants that I have discovered in a previous trip, but not from a book. When I buy a guide book, I don't usually look to intensely at the restaurant recommendations. Most of the time, the restaurants they may recommend are usually not near where I am visiting at the time we are hungery. But I do ocassionaly go to restaurants recommended by friends that have been there before, or if I go by a place that I recognize from this forum, I may check it out. but usually it is search & try, even if it is in a country where I don't understand the language or cannot read the menu. <BR>

elvira

Good question, Martha! I use a combination of guidebooks, cooking magazine and "W" recommendations, and wandering around. If I'm going to an out-of-the-way place where restaurants might not be very prevalent, I'll find the names of a couple of restaurants to have as a security blanket. In big cities that I know (like Paris or London), other than a recommendation for an unusual restaurant (like the Chinese restaurant in Paris that's koy aquariums), I wing it. If I'm responsible for a group (like the Travelling Loons), then I definitely map out several restaurants in the area we're visiting to be sure we have immediate choices if the gang is tired. <BR>I've so far never had a bad meal (mediocre maybe, but not bad).

marilyn

Put me down with the wandering menu readers! When I travel I like to do a lot of research, and prioritize what I want to see and do. But then I like to just go with the "big picture" sort of touring, where I say "today I want to see the Musee D'Orsay, and maybe walk by the Seine," and then we just eat and drink when the spirit moves us or we see something interesting. We read menus and just try to find somewhere that seems appealing! Our trips are too short to lock into being at a specific restaurant at a specific time, for the most part. Sometimes a certain restaurant or type of restaurant might be part of experiencing a place, like eating in a creperie in Brittany or a colonial tavern in Williamsburg.

Joe

Martha, I became a believer in guidebooks during an '89 visit to England and a '90 trip to France. Both times we kept finding mediocre food at high prices. Once in Paris we even went into a place that had a bargain-rate menu posted outside but a higher priced menu inside. The few good, reasonably priced meals we had we found in Fodor's, and I've come to depend on guides since. I'm especially impressed by the accuracy of the guides that I've used, which include most of the standard titles. I remember a Cadogan entry for a Prague restaurant that said that the owner was an eccentric woman who chatted at length with guests. It seemd like nothing more than a cute story, but sure enough she showed up half way through our meal and was charming in a zany kind of way. We eat at crepes stands and similar places as well, but I've found all the memorable restaurants in guides. Joe

julie cabral

Marhta: Having just returned from Paris you can defintely put me in the wanderin around category. I did a huge amount of research on restaurants before leaving but threw almost all of it out as we explored all the neat little bistros, brasseries and cafes around the neighborhood where we stayed. We did not have one regrettable meal in 9 days of dining and our meals ran the gamut of country hearty cuisine to delicately prepared seafood, luscious pates and great stews. I did beak down and order moules and frittes at one little tavern and loved them. Being from Maine and a seafood lover, I tried as many different seafood dishes as I could find. I am not putting down the awesome meals at Lucas Carton or Tour d'Argent- I have eaten there too( when the parents were footing the bill!!)I just really ejoyed the exploration and the great fun dining in a local neighborhhod place . Lots of good laughs especially with some very funny waiters eager to impress my 16 yr. old. All in all, eating out was an adventure!! It is almost a ritual pastime to read the scribbled boards and menus also- we struck up some great conversations with parisian and fellow travellers.

elizabeth

I come down on the side of a bit of research rather than relying solely on posted menus. (I should point out, however, that we travel to eat and lunch and dinner are the highlights of our day - it's the same as a museum nut researching a town prior to arrival). <BR> <BR>We use a combination of guidebooks(mainly Michelin - it has lots of reasonably priced restaurants - not just 3 stars), magazine articles, references on the Web (including this site)and asking locals (your hotel/other restauranteurs/etc). <BR> <BR>For a recent visit to Puglia in Italy I had information for several restaurants in the towns/areas we planned to visit. Without exception they were terrific and in most cases we never would have found them without prior knowledge (in our experience the best restaurants - at any price - are usually not the most visible). When we looked at their posted menus there was nothing in particular that would have drawn us in - but armed with our research we were able to order things not on the regular menu, such as seasonal specialties, etc. <BR> <BR>Generally we try to cross reference Michelin with another mention - web/magazine/someone we meet locally/etc. These references tend to give us a better flavour of the restaurant (excuse the pun) and reveal specific dishes to order, etc. <BR> <BR>Hope this helps! <BR>

Robin

Although I like to get recommendations and in theory, compile a list of good restaurants, I find that at the end of a busy day running around seeing/doing, I want someplace convenient and close to my hotel. And yes, like others I usually end up looking at posted menus and just going with what looks good. Not all the times do they work out so great, BUT . . . <BR>When I stayed at the Hart House Hotel in London during my Nov. stay, they had a bulletin board in the lobby & folks would tack up business cards from the neighborhood restaurants, and add their comments. It was sort of a "mini - Fodor's Forum" and very helpful. And I've also found that you can usually get a decent restaurant recommendation from the people working the desk at your hotel. <BR>

Cheryl Z.

<BR>We mostly wander, read the menus and experiement. Sometimes we'll ask at the hotel for a recommendation of where the locals eat, sometimes check out a place noted in a guide or a magazine, but mostly just wander! I'm still always amazed by all the many little places side by side, in alleys, on side streets, offering such a variety of food to choose from in practically every European destination we've been to. I wish it were so over here!

wes fowler

Martha, <BR>I rarely depend upon guides or reviews for restaurants. Owners,managements and chefs change too frequently for most guides, magazines and other publications to track on a current basis. During a day's travels I'll stop more than once at a sidewalk cafe,pub or brauhaus and have uncovered an interesting means of discovering local restaurants of good quality. I simply ask the waiter where he takes his wife or girl friend to dinner on a special occasion and where he and she might dine on a normal occasion. I then get the restaurant's name, address and directions to it. Invariably I've ended up in a non- tourist oriented restaurant with non- tourist oriented prices that's a "mom and pop" operation with a warm, familial atmosphere where we've been treated royally despite language barriers. Try it sometime!

Donna

I'm a huge fan of Cheap Eats, since nearly all our best meals in Paris were at places recommended in this book. The others were from other guide books. While, once in a while, in our travels, we've fallen into a really nice place with good food at reasonable prices, we've done much better with recommendations from guide books, which we've found to be highly reliable. Interestingly, though, we went to a place from Cheap Eats in Paris and were not impressed after peeking in the windows and perusing the menu, so wandered about the neighborhood and "fell into" another place which we loved, only to discover later that I had highlighted and starred it in my Access Guide!

Monica

I used the Cheap Eats in Paris book recently for about 6 restaurants and truely enjoyed them all. Lots of times I'll read the posted menus and see who's sitting in the restaurant (full of tourists? or Locals?). I've even asked the owner/manager of at our hotels and have gotten good recommendations. And I've gotten suggestions from the web.

francesca

I am definitely in the research contigent, and don't go anywhere without consulting Zagat's, Patricia Wells, TimeOut, and I take my Gault & Millau on every trip. Why? Because I hate the idea of having mediocre food. The flip side to this approach is that restaurants just reviewed in TimeOut will be packed and any restaurant in a Patricia Wells book may have a lot of Americans (this is a problem only for other American visitors who, when I take them to such a restaurant, think it's a tourist trap when if fact it's just a great place that's been written up a lot in Patricia Wells/The Herald Tribune). If you want a good, streetwise guide, the TimeOut city guides are very good.

Paulo

The only time I specifically remember getting a restaurant suggestion out of a guide book was last year, in Istanbul. After close to a month touring Greece and Turkey, when we got to Istanbul our ladies (a friend travelled with us) were tired of eating lamb ... they longed for beef for a change A guide showed us quickly which restaurants had (also) an international cuisine. <BR>Although we always carry a list of places in each main city we're visiting (mainly result from a research in the net - including newsgroups in local language - and recommendations by friends or relatives) and use this list here and there, we normally use Wes' approach (no problems communicating in Spanish, French, German and Italian). Places crowded by locals have also been frequent choices. As a result, we've been indeed to many places recommended by guides but with info got elswhere. <BR>Out of curiosity only, when we like a particular restaurant (in Italy) very much, I try to find out if it's listed in the Gambero Rosso guide and if it got a good rating. Also regarding Italy, though a bit outdated, there's a site that shows restaurant ratings: <BR>http://194.21.28.45/dbristoranti/home2.html <BR> <BR>Paulo <BR> <BR>

s.fowler

I've always relied on guidebooks [primarily frommers, fodors and access guides, as well as cheap eats] and now also on internet resources including this forum. I look for agreement among several different sources or for something that seems special or different. [That's how I found Les Olivades in the 7eme -- in was in frommers, but in a sidebar, not the regular listings. It was *wonderful*.] The only BAD experience we had in Paris was when we "winged it" and picked a restaurant that looked nice, but had pretty dismal food. <BR> <BR>We look for wine bars and smaller cafes for one meal a day so we don't return home STUFFED. For Paris I rely heavily on Patricia Well's book. I also keep a list with me for the neighborhoods we will be traipsing around that day. One of the reasons I research and plan so carefully is that our time has been very short in Western Europe recently and we want to make the most the time we do have. <BR> <BR>I do like Wes' approach and may use it next time in addition to my usual research.

Cheryl

I always ask my tour guide or concierge, and I have never been sorry. I don't want to take a chance on just going anywhere, because it may be bad. If I am in a place for a short time, I want to eat in the best restaurants. Vacations are for splurging. <BR>

lisa

Yes, I like to use guidebooks but also depend a lot on locals' recommendations. A surprisingly reliable way of finding good inexpensive restaurants in many cities both in the U.S. and abroad is to ask taxi drivers! They know the city well, tend to eat in inexpensive places, and also overhear a lot of conversations from their passengers about where they had good/bad meals. Many times in my own city I have heard about the "latest hot place" from a taxi driver before reading about it in a newspaper or magazine. It's worth a shot, and nothing is 100% reliable anyway, not even guidebooks.

Curt

Martha, <BR>On vacations we take our food seriously; so choosing poorly, even if it doesn't cost much, is an opportunity wasted. I enjoy reading both menus and restaurant reviews; and I would highly recommend doing research. Like some of the other respondents, I believe in thoroughly cross referencing recommendations; but guidebooks are a good place to start. I'm not a big fan of Michelin(especially in France) but Fodor's does a very good job with restaurant recommendations, we have been disappointed only once that I can remember; and not because the food was mediocre, only that it wasn't as good as the buildup. Concierge and tour guide suggestions can be good - we have had some excellent experiences with this approach - but sometimes you have to ask the right questions or else you may end up just going to a place that was popular with the other tourists. However, if you ask the concierge about a particular restaurant or ask them to compare their recommendation to a guidebook suggestion, you can often get a better sense of what you can expect. Finally, while it's true that restaurants can change between guidebook updates, this is likely to be more of a problem with inexpensive restaurants; which rely on cheap rents and tend to lose staff to better paying jobs. I've noticed that while Fodor's (like most guidebooks) doesn't have an exhaustive list of inexpensive restaurants, it tends to recommend family run places or local institutions which are less likely to change either staff or location. Good luck and good eating! CW <BR>

Diane

We do some research and like to pick from guidebooks if they sound intriguing enough and its nice to have a general idea of price. But that may be for only a couple of meals, or if we suddenly feel like Thai food instead of French. I also ask friends or co-workers whom I know have similar tastes, for recommendations. We'll read menus and scope out the patrons to make on the spot decisions. One of our best dinners was a plat du jour in a sidewalk cafe somewhere between Isle St Louis and the Bastille. Only a couple of locals taking an early meal around 5:30PM. We had veal chops in mushroom gravy and a couple of beers. Being jet-lagged we were also famished after a self-designed walking tour across the bridge, around Notre Dame and back again. The waiter spoke little English, but understood my broken French well enough. The owner's dog came and curled up on our feet under the table so we felt "welcomed" and fed him breadcrusts wiped in the last of our gravy. We sat and chatted with the waiter for about half an hour after we were through. (Before people started arriving for dinner) Don't know if I've ever read a description of that sort of ambiance in a guide, but it was a great start to our week in Paris.