Chip and Pin Card from Capital One
Apr 26th, 2015, 09:37 AM
#22
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 49,521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have one from Chase (visa) and here in the states it is slid through magnetic strip exactly as normally done. When I travel to Europe they use the chip. I don't have a password so i just sign for it. It really doesn't change anything. Except it is probaby a little safer from theft if you use chip and password rather than signature.
Apr 26th, 2015, 10:24 AM
#23
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<i><font color=#555555>"I have a PenFed card, which I got last year. I have a PIN for it. I used in Europe last fall. IT DEFAULTED TO CHIP AND SIGNATURE FIRST."</font></i>
Ok. I see some words, a few in caps, so I suppose you are angry about something, but I haven't a clue what the problem was.
1. Where did you use the card when it failed to accept a PIN? Or did it fail to accept a PIN? With all the yelling, it's difficult to discern whether the card did what it was supposed to do in the end.
2. Did you contact PenFed customer service?
THERE IS NO GUARANTEE that any credit card will work in every unmanned machine in Europe. If you get stuck in a credit-card-only toll lane on the highway, and your credit card decides to have a bad day, you have no choice but to endure the humiliation of either trying to back up your car against raving mad drivers behind you or move over to the side and find some attendant who can help you. Yes, if this happened to me, I'd be furious, and never approach a toll booth without cash again.
Plastic and chip technology are only great when they work. When they don't work, life can be rush to hell quite quickly.
Ok. I see some words, a few in caps, so I suppose you are angry about something, but I haven't a clue what the problem was.
1. Where did you use the card when it failed to accept a PIN? Or did it fail to accept a PIN? With all the yelling, it's difficult to discern whether the card did what it was supposed to do in the end.
2. Did you contact PenFed customer service?
THERE IS NO GUARANTEE that any credit card will work in every unmanned machine in Europe. If you get stuck in a credit-card-only toll lane on the highway, and your credit card decides to have a bad day, you have no choice but to endure the humiliation of either trying to back up your car against raving mad drivers behind you or move over to the side and find some attendant who can help you. Yes, if this happened to me, I'd be furious, and never approach a toll booth without cash again.
Plastic and chip technology are only great when they work. When they don't work, life can be rush to hell quite quickly.
Apr 26th, 2015, 10:29 AM
#24
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry NYC Food Snob...The new cards (issued since April 2014) of USAA have been read through card readers. Signature verification is a higher preference on all these newly issued cards than offline pin, which is what was being used in kiosks for the most part. Somebody claimed they had spoken to a csr at USAA who told him that members could request pin preferenced cards but nobody seems to have one. I will stand by my statement. The only card available to Americans today that one would consider a "true" chip and pin card that defaults first to pin verifications is being issued by UNFCU.
I used my USAA mc in Europe two years ago, before it was replaced, and it did default to pin verification. When I used it last summer, the replacement card that is, it defaulted to signature verification. The people at Flyer Talk are on top of this. Many are whining that their cards default to signature verification (although many do have pin backups) so if you follow that thread and if there is a US issued card that defaults to pin verification, it probably would have been posted there.
But I'm not saying this to be argumentive. Give the card the Walmart test and I'll bet a nickel, my usual bet, that it will not ask for a pin unless it is a foreign issued card or a card from UNFCU. When Bank of Montreal resurrected Diners Club in the USA, it was a "true" chip and pin card but they have stopped taking applications for the card in November.
I stand by what I have written.
I used my USAA mc in Europe two years ago, before it was replaced, and it did default to pin verification. When I used it last summer, the replacement card that is, it defaulted to signature verification. The people at Flyer Talk are on top of this. Many are whining that their cards default to signature verification (although many do have pin backups) so if you follow that thread and if there is a US issued card that defaults to pin verification, it probably would have been posted there.
But I'm not saying this to be argumentive. Give the card the Walmart test and I'll bet a nickel, my usual bet, that it will not ask for a pin unless it is a foreign issued card or a card from UNFCU. When Bank of Montreal resurrected Diners Club in the USA, it was a "true" chip and pin card but they have stopped taking applications for the card in November.
I stand by what I have written.
Apr 26th, 2015, 10:36 AM
#25
@NYCSnob - I am shouting because you are not listening. The issue is not whether the card has a chip. The issue is not whether the card has a PIN. The issue is whether the card defaults to signature or to PIN as first choice.
I had no issues with the PenFed card, which did ask for my PIN a few times when I was buying transport passes, I just held up the line in stores while I had to sign instead of simply typing my PIN like everyone else.
I had no issues with the PenFed card, which did ask for my PIN a few times when I was buying transport passes, I just held up the line in stores while I had to sign instead of simply typing my PIN like everyone else.
Apr 26th, 2015, 10:40 AM
#26
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NY Food Snob...maybe the problem is our definitions. Pen Fed issues cards which they claim to be chip and pin. I like one in particular which gives me a 5% rebate on all petrol purchases so I have the card and yes it is advertised as chip and pin. I used it at Walmart and it did not ask for a pin; it fell under the Walmart policy of not even requesting a signature for purchases under $50 but it did use the chip. I used the card in Europe and was asked for a signature.
Now again to repeat. From the beginning that in and of itself is not a problem. However in the past there have been some problems with merchants running the card through their pos terminal, seeing the message flash signature required and then voiding the transaction under the mistaken impression their liability increased because of lack of a pin. I was among those upset by the USA's banks decision to prioritize signature verification as I am sure we will agree for the most part signature verification is worthless (for our American members here, when is the last time a clerk even looked at the signature panel and in many cases merchants do not bother with signatures for small purchases which is allowed by the card networks while in Europe they always go through the pretense, at least, of looking at the signature. Whether a 16 year old clerk will do something about it is another question). In any event, the whole point here is that there were many kiosks that would not process a card without a pin and in that case the backup pin at Pen FCU and others would work. But many US issued chip cards do not have provision for offline pins. That is where the problem might have existed in the past. The card networks are claiming, again you can take this or leave this, that under new regs to take effect in July, such actions will not be allowed. It seems to be working based on the dramatic decrease in the number of complaints here and on other blogs.
So if you can show me a USAA issued mastercard which requests a pin at Walmart, then I lose my bet. But I don't think you can as I still think they don't exist.
Now again to repeat. From the beginning that in and of itself is not a problem. However in the past there have been some problems with merchants running the card through their pos terminal, seeing the message flash signature required and then voiding the transaction under the mistaken impression their liability increased because of lack of a pin. I was among those upset by the USA's banks decision to prioritize signature verification as I am sure we will agree for the most part signature verification is worthless (for our American members here, when is the last time a clerk even looked at the signature panel and in many cases merchants do not bother with signatures for small purchases which is allowed by the card networks while in Europe they always go through the pretense, at least, of looking at the signature. Whether a 16 year old clerk will do something about it is another question). In any event, the whole point here is that there were many kiosks that would not process a card without a pin and in that case the backup pin at Pen FCU and others would work. But many US issued chip cards do not have provision for offline pins. That is where the problem might have existed in the past. The card networks are claiming, again you can take this or leave this, that under new regs to take effect in July, such actions will not be allowed. It seems to be working based on the dramatic decrease in the number of complaints here and on other blogs.
So if you can show me a USAA issued mastercard which requests a pin at Walmart, then I lose my bet. But I don't think you can as I still think they don't exist.
Apr 26th, 2015, 11:03 AM
#27
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sweeties, I'm listening. But some of your frustration is over the top. Thirty years ago, almost no merchant in Europe accepted credit cards and very few hotel rooms had a private bathroom. Relax.
Some people will never be satisfied until they receive perfect, easy, and universal, as if that's ever going to happen. I mean really, these are competing financial institutions of the world we're talking about here. Photographers can never get Adobe and Apple to play like friends and talk sense to one another, and they're American companies, often with the same customers, who don't really compete (at least not much anymore). How can anyone expect more from worldwide banks?
If the PenFed card eventually worked, why scream about it defaulting to signature first? So you held up the line, big deal. The last time I shopped at Walmart, the woman in front of me pulled out a checkbook to pay for $62 of items. Who pays by check anymore? By the time she wrote out the check, showed her I.D., and helped the cashier find her Driver's License number so the cashier could write it on the check, I could have eaten two pints of Häagen-Dazs. Now that's a terror risk I can't afford.
These threads keep xyc123 busy. So I guess that's a good thing?
Some people will never be satisfied until they receive perfect, easy, and universal, as if that's ever going to happen. I mean really, these are competing financial institutions of the world we're talking about here. Photographers can never get Adobe and Apple to play like friends and talk sense to one another, and they're American companies, often with the same customers, who don't really compete (at least not much anymore). How can anyone expect more from worldwide banks?
If the PenFed card eventually worked, why scream about it defaulting to signature first? So you held up the line, big deal. The last time I shopped at Walmart, the woman in front of me pulled out a checkbook to pay for $62 of items. Who pays by check anymore? By the time she wrote out the check, showed her I.D., and helped the cashier find her Driver's License number so the cashier could write it on the check, I could have eaten two pints of Häagen-Dazs. Now that's a terror risk I can't afford.
These threads keep xyc123 busy. So I guess that's a good thing?
Apr 26th, 2015, 11:37 AM
#29
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,322
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Somebody claimed they had spoken to a csr at USAA who told him that members could request pin preferenced cards but nobody seems to have one."
I have one, but our Walmart are still the old style so it is a regular signature card there. However, as I stated above, I used USAA several times in Victoria last year and it asked for a PIN first. I remember it clearly because I didn't know that you had to put the card in at the bottom of the machine, so they instructed me on how to use it.
I have one, but our Walmart are still the old style so it is a regular signature card there. However, as I stated above, I used USAA several times in Victoria last year and it asked for a PIN first. I remember it clearly because I didn't know that you had to put the card in at the bottom of the machine, so they instructed me on how to use it.
Apr 26th, 2015, 11:39 AM
#30
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I consider it my patriotic duty to help people understand what's going on <g>. Actually, I've been saying the same thing in answer to those who whine about the USA not going chip and pin (I was one of them) and have been trying to show it probably doesn't matter any more although it did at one time if the US banks don't issue pins which is where this particular thread started. No intention on my part to be argumentive (although once I was). But as far as this thread is concerned, I have said my piece and tried to condense the 735 pages of the flyer talk thread into a couple of posts to help people understand. However, I do think there is something to be said for globalization and like so many things, I find the US for better or for worse to be most contrary minded on so many thing that seems to be no brainers.
But for now, over and out.
But for now, over and out.
Apr 26th, 2015, 11:45 AM
#31
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
happytourist...I will respond even though I didn't intend to. It depends on when the card was issued and also whether or not you were at a pos terminal or an unattended type kiosk. USAA changed its cvm preferences in April 2014 to what other cards in the US are i.e. signature preference with a pin backup. Nothing wrong with that is the point I was trying to make but in a sense, it is not a "true" chip and pin card. Is it important? Probably not but many people as did the OP here were and remain upset their emv compliant cards either do not have pins or default as signature cards. All I've been trying to do is explain why; not to make a judgment on what is right and what is wrong.
Apr 26th, 2015, 01:03 PM
#32
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<i><font color=#555555>"The whole of Europe has managed to move to chip and PIN. There is no good reason the US can't do so as well."</font></i>
When has the U.S. ever looked to Europe for guidance on anything? Have you driven Amtrak lately?
Talk about scratching your head and wondering what the cruck were they thinking…
Capital One, the American bank which prides itself on SERVING American TRAVELERS, launched an expensive ad campaign to promote its new Venture One VISA with CHIP-and-Signature technology, except someone neglected to tell the powers that be that a Chip-and-Signature feature is completely useless to travelers who travel outside the U.S.
When a Capital One "supervisor" insisted their Venture Card comes with a PIN, I told her to prove it. After leaving me on hold for several minutes, you had to hear the sigh of resignation when she got back on to say, "I can't believe it's only a chip-and-signature card."
I wrote a letter to the CEO, with her encouragement. We'll see what comes of it.
In the meantime, I always carry cash, which I know is not xyz's travel style.
When has the U.S. ever looked to Europe for guidance on anything? Have you driven Amtrak lately?
Talk about scratching your head and wondering what the cruck were they thinking…
Capital One, the American bank which prides itself on SERVING American TRAVELERS, launched an expensive ad campaign to promote its new Venture One VISA with CHIP-and-Signature technology, except someone neglected to tell the powers that be that a Chip-and-Signature feature is completely useless to travelers who travel outside the U.S.
When a Capital One "supervisor" insisted their Venture Card comes with a PIN, I told her to prove it. After leaving me on hold for several minutes, you had to hear the sigh of resignation when she got back on to say, "I can't believe it's only a chip-and-signature card."
I wrote a letter to the CEO, with her encouragement. We'll see what comes of it.
In the meantime, I always carry cash, which I know is not xyz's travel style.
Apr 27th, 2015, 10:59 AM
#34
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 34,858
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not quite sure of the logic that because Europe does it, it is only "logical" for the US to do it. One could make the reverse argument just as easily, not to mention Europe isn't the only place in the world. Different countries do different things, that's all.
I have a Cap One MC, wonder if they are just reissuing them all or what, I haven't heard anything. I'm annoyed with them right now anyway, as they have changed their system that if you want to make a foreign purchase online, for example, you have to tell them the exact merchant's name and the exact amount. THis is ridiculous, you'd have to call them for every purchase and also know the exact amount (I wonder if the person who told me that even comprehended the price would be in euro). I insisted on speaking to a supervisor who verified that and then said they cold put a blanket permission on my card for a country, but only for two days, that was it. They still allow you to put in travel notes, thank goodness, but if you aren't traveling yet they are becoming very difficult to use.
I asked when this started and the guy (as usual) claimed he'd been there for years, blah blah and it had always been this way. Which wasn't true, just last summer I called up as I was going to be making online purchases for my trip and had no problem with just saying up to x amt, these countries over the next month or so. That's what I did with my Chase SWA Visa which also has no foreign transaction fee, and they had no problem with it, so I'm only using them for my advance online purchases.
I have a Cap One MC, wonder if they are just reissuing them all or what, I haven't heard anything. I'm annoyed with them right now anyway, as they have changed their system that if you want to make a foreign purchase online, for example, you have to tell them the exact merchant's name and the exact amount. THis is ridiculous, you'd have to call them for every purchase and also know the exact amount (I wonder if the person who told me that even comprehended the price would be in euro). I insisted on speaking to a supervisor who verified that and then said they cold put a blanket permission on my card for a country, but only for two days, that was it. They still allow you to put in travel notes, thank goodness, but if you aren't traveling yet they are becoming very difficult to use.
I asked when this started and the guy (as usual) claimed he'd been there for years, blah blah and it had always been this way. Which wasn't true, just last summer I called up as I was going to be making online purchases for my trip and had no problem with just saying up to x amt, these countries over the next month or so. That's what I did with my Chase SWA Visa which also has no foreign transaction fee, and they had no problem with it, so I'm only using them for my advance online purchases.
Apr 27th, 2015, 11:43 AM
#35
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are a few good threads on this topic already but I'll chime in with one other option: I have a Commerce Bank issued chip and pin card that I got after exploring a variety of options.
Pros:
1. No account required with them
2. Don't need to be in their service area
3. No annual fee
4. Has a real pin that definitely works at kiosks, etc. in Europe-- you get to set your own PIN
Cons:
1. Defaults to chip and signature at manned spots (ie restaurants). This REALLY bugs me even though the card works fine.
2. Has ForEx fees (not huge but a negative compared to many other cards)
3. Had to call to set up PIN and the interface was confusing (as I recall it had a default PIN that wasn't clearly shared and you needed it to then set a new PIN)
Pros:
1. No account required with them
2. Don't need to be in their service area
3. No annual fee
4. Has a real pin that definitely works at kiosks, etc. in Europe-- you get to set your own PIN
Cons:
1. Defaults to chip and signature at manned spots (ie restaurants). This REALLY bugs me even though the card works fine.
2. Has ForEx fees (not huge but a negative compared to many other cards)
3. Had to call to set up PIN and the interface was confusing (as I recall it had a default PIN that wasn't clearly shared and you needed it to then set a new PIN)
Apr 28th, 2015, 07:47 AM
#36
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 29,617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just spoke with Ryan at Cap One. The card I received is a chip and sig. Not a true chip--unlikely that it will work at unmanned places in Europe.
So, NYCFoodSnob, I had the same conversation! I dare say the percentage of Americans who travel overseas and DIY with unmanned things are too much in the minority to justify this technology at this point. I'll write also.
Christina, my Cap One card is a Visa-do you suppose that is why you didn't get the letter and new card?
So, NYCFoodSnob, I had the same conversation! I dare say the percentage of Americans who travel overseas and DIY with unmanned things are too much in the minority to justify this technology at this point. I'll write also.
Christina, my Cap One card is a Visa-do you suppose that is why you didn't get the letter and new card?
Apr 28th, 2015, 08:59 AM
#37
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 22,988
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<i>unlikely that it will work at unmanned places in Europe.</i>
It probably will, although I would not try it first in an unmanned highway booth. The card should default to a PIN number where there is no attendant.
It probably will, although I would not try it first in an unmanned highway booth. The card should default to a PIN number where there is no attendant.
Apr 28th, 2015, 06:08 PM
#40
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"The PIN probably has to be set." -- After several EXTENDED discussions with various banks and credit card companies over the past few months, I am convinced that many (most? all?) Chip and Signature cards have PINs that can NEVER be used to authorize a payment. I'm no expert.
