I was using voyages-sncf.com and looking at dates within the 90-day period in order to plan our trip.

This is what I have planned (we arrive and depart from Cologne one day before and after):
Cologne - Amsterdam, March 17
Amsterdam - Paris, March 21
Paris - Cologne, March 24

I thought this could be done, per person, as follows:
Cologne - Amsterdam 19 Euros (Deutsche Bahn)
Amsterdam - Paris 25 Euros (SNCF)
Paris - Cologne 25 Euros (SNCF)

I think I was misled by the fact that SNCF is having a promotion right now until March 16, in which return fares were not obligatory:
http://www.thalys.com/fr/fr/voyages-...n-d-annee-2007

So my plan would work up to March 16, but not for my dates. So what are the cheapest, best options that work for my dates?

Because the trains on these routes go through Brussels so far as I can see, I am thinking something like setting up three roundtrip tickets, and enjoying some time in Brussels on the 17th, 21st, and 24th, like this, with the per-person cost shown:
Cologne - Brussels roundtrip, March 17-24 (30 Euros)
Brussels - Amsterdam roundtrip, March 17-21 (33 Euros)
Brussels - Paris roundtrip
March 21-24 (55 Euros)

So the travel would be the same as in my original plan, except I'd allow time in Brussels. The cost is obviously worse.

But is there some other method I am not properly considering? How easy is it to stop for the day in Brussels, so far as storing luggage?

Is there a painless way to incorporate an overnight stop like Brugges or Antwerp into this plan, and chop off one day from Amsterdam? Or maybe an overnight stop in Brussels (although I'd still have two other stops in Brussels)?

As you are a veteran Fodorite, I'm wondering why you aren't flying 'open jaw'...?

I am flying open-jaw, but out of Seattle and back into Vancouver. The total ticket price was very cheap - $424. I couldn't get Amsterdam or Paris into the ticket without paying a lot more.

yep, great price.. thanks, was just wonderin'....

If it's too much hassle to have two destinations, I might just drop one. Our Cologne-Paris-Cologne trip worked out very well in February.

But it looks like here is another way I can do this (besides the Brussels method above):
Cologne - Amsterdam (2.5 hours at 19 Euros one-way on the DB site)
Amsterdam - Paris ??
Paris Est - Cologne (5 hours at 39 Euros one-way on the DB site)

The tricky part is Amsterdam-Paris. I could just get a roundtrip ticket for 70 Euros and throw the second half away.

Or another method, which I think might be the winner:
Cologne-Amsterdam as above
Amsterdam-Paris roundtrip, via Brussels on the return, and we get off in Brussels and spend the day there. So only the Brussels-Amsterdam part is "thrown away".
Brussels - Cologne (19 Euros on Deutsche Bahn)

Total cost of this final method is (19 + 70 + 19) = 108 Euros per person, which is not that much more than the 74 or so I was originally thinking, and we get a few (or many) hours in Brussels.

I'm sure that it won't make much difference, but you can travel via regular trains between Amsterdam to Brussels and take the Eurostar between Brussels and Paris. I don't know if that's cheaper.

I believe Antwerp is on the route between Amsterdam and Brussels.

Actually you've other options in Holland as well on this route -- like Den Haag, if I remember right.

Also Rotterdam is on this route.

Bruges, I think, is on a different line.

In February 2005 I did the following all in one day.

Brussels to Bruges (a little over 50 minutes)

Bruges to Gent (about 25 minutes)

Gent to Antwerp (over 50 minutes)

Then Amsterdam for the night.

Basically Amsterdam to Brussels should take 2.5-3 hours. You can potentially stop in any of the towns on this line. However Bruges and Gent are on other lines, I think. So you can take a detour for extra time.

I can see how to do Brussels - Lille on the Eurostar site, but I can't get Paris - Brussels (or vice versa). But Brussels - Lille is 50.40 Euros roundtrip, so no bargain. Do you see a way to book Brussels-Paris on Eurostar?

I'm sure you could easily add a bunch of stops to the trip, but we just aren't that ambitious . Actually while in Amsterdam, I will probably do at least two day trips, but just not in transit, other than my current tentative plan of stopping in Brussels on our return.

I swear I saw the 19-Euro one-way Brussels-Koeln fare on the DB web site for dates after March 16, but I no longer can. I've had that problem with the DB web site before.

Oh well, back to Plan B, C, D, or Z.

I am confused. Why are you going through Brussels to get from Cologne to Amsterdam?

Yes, that might be confusing. It is of course faster to take the 2 hour, 37-minute ICE from Cologne to Amsterdam that does not go through Brussels. My original idea, somewhere in there, was to save money by forming three roundtrips out of the itinerary, given how Thalys charges so much less for round trips.

Anyway, my current plan is this:
* Cologne-Amsterdam one-way direct (as above), for 19 Euros on Deutsche Bahn.
* Amsterdam-Paris roundtrip (70 Euros), but throw away the return Brussels-Amsterdam segment. After taking the Paris-Brussels leg of this trip, we will stop for the day in Brussels on our way back to Cologne, and take an evening train back to Cologne.
* Brussels - Cologne (roundtrip, 30 Euros, throw the Cologne-Brussels half away).

So that means 119 Euros per person, with nothing particularly stressful or lengthy, and we will also get to see Brussels. Of course I'd like it cheaper, so if I've missed any tricks, I'd love to know.

If I were doing things differently, one option that looks intriguing involves the TGV from Paris Est to Karlsruhe, and then you can take a stopover as you please, and then the IC train from Karlsruhe to Cologne. This was 39 Euros one-way on the Deutsche Bahn site, if anyone is interested. Because this uses the high-speed TGV, the actual time on the train is not much different than Thalys, despite the greater mileage.

Hi Will,

Check prices for Amsterdam/Brussels OW, and RT Brussels/Paris.

No need to take the THALYS between A and B, because it is not a high-speed train on that route.

There's no need to take the Thalys from Amsterdam to Brussels, but the regular train is more expensive than the Thalys booked as a Smilys ticket, even considering the Smilys roundtrip requirement.

That's interesting.

I didn't realize that Brussels-Paris is not Eurostar. So I guess you book it on Thalys.

I tried something random. For 3-14-08 it looks like you can go between Brussels and Paris for 25 euros. I chose the French version of the Thalys site and I think I chose I'd pick up tickets in Belgium.

It's a "Promo Fin d'Année (BY)" special.

Does this help?

I can't seem to get Brussels-Amsterdam to show up cheaply. I guess you need to book the round-trip and throw away.

The money saved is probably not worth the time wasted.

I think I posted above that the "Promo Fin d'Année (BY)" tricked me into thinking that these rail tickets would be cheaper than they will be, because the promo ends on March 16, and our train travel starts March 17. But it's a good deal for someone going before then (although I think it has to be booked today).

Well as usual, we can rely you to get us the best fares rather than the other way around!

I thought I had this solved. But United changed our return schedule so that the flights misconnect, so I have the opportunity to ask for a reroute. I talked to them, and they are willing to have me start the return journey in Frankfurt, among other options.

I then checked, and I had apparently missed this earlier on Bahn.de, but it looks like there is a 3 hour, 49-minute express train from Paris Est to Frankfurt, which can be purchased for as little as 39 Euros one-way. So if I think about this a bit, maybe I can add a short stop in Frankfurt into this trip.

OK, to summarize. United okayed a flight change on the return for FRA-SFO-YVR.

So we are going to buy the following train tickets (price per person):
Cologne - Amsterdam (19 Euros one-way)
Amsterdam - Paris (70 Euros roundtrip, but we'll throw the second half away)
Paris - Frankfurt (39 Euros one-way on the high-speed train)

So the only one I can really complain about, mildly, is the Amsterdam-Paris fare, which does not seem reducible no matter what I do.

One last thing for the record - people aged 12-26 can get a one-way 52.50 Euro train fare from Amsterdam to Paris, so that's what she will get, and I will get the 70-Euro roundtrip fare and throw away half.

This worked out a little worse than I hoped, but it's a good thing I did not postpone ticket purchases any longer than this (although I thought I was very early). I just bought them.

I decided to start with the March 24 tickets from Paris Est to Frankfurt. Right before my eyes, I saw the availability sell out for the 39 Euro tickets. No doubt this is a very popular travel time, as this is Easter Monday. I lost a bit of time, by going through Voyages-SNCF.com and then realizing I could not do a self-print for these tickets. So I went over to Deutsche Bahn. By the time I looked the 39-Euro tickets were not available at 19:06, but were available earlier. But by the time I got through everything, only 59-Euro tickets were available the whole day. I was quite worried the prices would jump up yet further. So I quickly went through the ticket purchase on Bahn.de and I am getting them mailed. Canada Post is not my favorite, but I hope they will arrive. Then I'll pin them to my passport.

Then I decided to buy the Cologne-Amsterdam self-print tickets. No problem there, except I wasn't sure whether I really needed an extra 2 Euro reservation fee. I decided it was safer to get it than not, so the total price ended up being 42 Euros.

For Paris - Amsterdam on March 21, I again lost some time by trying to fix it so one ticket would be return at 70 Euros, and the youth ticket would be one-way at 52.50 Euros. I discovered that with this arrangement, I could not do self-printing. I couldn't tell if the right machine would be available for self-pickup in Amsterdam (although it appeared it would be in Paris). So I had to go through the transaction again selecting two roundtrip tickets. In this short interval, the 9:26 availability disappeared, but I got the 8:26 train. I could see other times of day disappearing as well.

The moral of this story is that cheap tickets must be exceedingly limited in inventory, and if you want them, so will other people. Buy them the instant they go on sale. I wish I had tried for the Paris Est - Frankfurt tickets about 11 hours ago.

For Cologne-Amsterdam, I meant that the total price per ticket ended up being 19 + 2 Euros, or 42 Euros for two.