PalenQ

LANGUAGE PROBLEMS
Often happen it seems at the ticket window - even i have, after years of experience, gotten the wrong reservations when i was negligent in not stating more clearly what i wanted

I, a single traveler, have on more than one occasion asked for a reservation by showing by railpass and gotten two reservations even though i never asked for two

now i always make clear 1 person

And others i know sometimes ask for reservations and actually get full fare tickets - either they did not show their pass or some mistake was made.

My advice is to always right everything down - destination in local parlance (Venezia for Venice, etc.) the time of the train and the train number - 1st or 2nd class, 1 person, etc.

I strongly recommend anyone having to buy or reserve a ticket to print out the exact information from www.bahn.de and then take it to the ticket window - this will be language-proof IME and of course write Eurailpass and number of people and class you want on it

But having the train number (ICE 542, ES 9402, etc.) simplifies the process for the ticket window staffer as they then just punch that number into their computer instead of having to look it up, etc.

Especially if wishing to make several reservations for use in a country this will help the ticket guy do that - otherwise he/she could balk if it looks too cumbersome
So go to www.bahn.de (as i said way above a good way to reach the English schedule page of the Wunderbar German rail site which has schedules for all of Europe and is the easiest i've seen to use is to go to www.budgeteuropetravel.com and on the home page click on the Link All european railway timetables or some such nomenclature as this brings you to the English schedule page of the bahn.de site where you have two boxes to put in station of origina and destination - the day and time of day you wish and then you can print the exact schedule with train #, etc. I suggest going to the budget europe site also because on the home page they give several tips on using the bahn site. Of course you can also just go to www.bahn.de and navigate the German page to the English site.

TBC

RM67

Re: Quiet Cars

Unfortunately, on FGW, these sometimes get their status changed back to 'noisy' cars by well-meaning but daft rail staff - presumably after some selfish so-and-so has whinged that they can't use their mobile or laptop.

They are a very good idea, but it's best to be aware that reserving a seat in these cars doesn't always absolutely guarantee a noise-free journey.

sglw

Bookmarking.
Thanks for the wonderful information

PalenQ

thanks RM for that tidbit

thanks sglw for nice comments

As i said RM i'm conflicted by Quiet Cars - i see why folks may like them - especially is that travel that same train everyday and some loudmouth blathers on everyday

and some folk don't seem to lower their voice but indeed boom it like over a PA

but in U.K. where i am (somewhat) fluent in the local language i often find these snippets of conversation very entertaining and also a good insight into the English life.

And as i inevitably have a first class BritRail pass i learn a lot about British business affairs as well as every business type seems to be constantly either text messaging or calling the office - esp when the train inevitably it seems is running late.

And it's fun to hear folks talking to the significant others about what's on for dinner, what the kids are doing and of course at times juicy gossip.

but every day i think i'd prefer the sounds of silence.

PalenQ

Above i copied a Fodor discussion of the at times impossibility of railpass holders to get reservations on some French TGV line - most noticeably Paris-Avignon-Aix-Nice direct trains.

Recently i went into www.raileurope.com and played around - check 'already have a pass' box and asked for reservations online for Paris CDG Airport and Paris-Montparnasse to Avignon, etc. for many different trains on many different dates

and it seemed the closer i got to the train the less likely i could get any pass reservation on any except the odd train. Yet when i unchecked the 'have a pass' box i often could then buy a full fare ticket for those trains.

I theorize that sncf - french railways put railpass reservations in the same category as they do PREM fares you can reserve online at www.voyages-sncf.com - discounted fares that often sell out far in advance

So when PREM fare seats are gone so are passholder reservations perhaps.

This upsets me especially as i like to freelance as i go along - in Feb i did get railpass reservatons on the new TGV-Est line Nancy and back the day before but the clerk said on one train i got the last one - and i had a first class pass.

Even on the Paris-Bordeaux TGV line i found quite a few trains not available. So if buying a pass i would suggest booking these two TGV lines in advance - paying a bit more here as if you wait you may not be able to get a passholder fare. I think the French Railways, who also sells these passes without indicating they may in effect not be able to ride TGVs if they wait until France, should earmark more seats for railpasses. But until then reserve when you buy your pass - again i always recommend BETS 800-441-2387 and esp Byron for this as IME this is about the only source you can actually talk to someone and then have them search all the alternatives as sometime the RailEurope site IME just does not list all possible trains. If you do it when you buy your pass you will also say a separate mailing and handling fee if you just order reservations themslves later. Many agents seem not to want to do reservations - such as ricksteves.com so if you buy a pass from there - an excellent site with great info - then they tell you to go to raileurope.com for your reservation as r.s. stie will not do it i believe. Then you get RE's $18 mailing fee on top of it whereas if you did both at once you would not pay this $18 fee (in addition to the $12 or so actually seat reservation fee.) I think making these reservations are extremely frustrating since because so many trains are full for pass holders so more searches, etc. so folks like r.s. forego it since reservations also pay a whopping 0% commission i've been told.

PalenQ

WI-FI ON TRAINS

Though just a few trains now have WI-FI access on trains it's coming more and more.

GNE in england claimed to be the first WI-FI accessible train anywhere a few years ago and now some sporadic service is on mainline bullet trains in europe. GNE (Now NationalExpress Trains) had WI-FI free in first class but charged then about 3 quid an hour in Standard Class.

Perhaps more every month - hard to keep up with - again ones i've seen may be free in 1st class, to attract business types and charge in 2nd class.

Most newer trains also have electric plugs and laptops are widely used. Also good for recharging phones and cameras.

PalenQ

COPYING A FODOR THREAD ABOUT FINDING YOUR TRAIN, BUYING TICKETS WITH CC; BOARDING; CONDUCTORS; POSTED SCHEDULES


Belgian Trains-Brussels Central

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Author: freshtodef
Date: 04/10/2008, 01:53 pm
Hi all,

I’ll be traveling to Brussels Central train station in a few weeks and just had some questions. I’ll be taking the train from the airport to Brussels Central, then on to Brugge. You have to forgive me for asking such simple questions, but I’ve never really been on a train before, or been in a train station to buy tickets on my own for that matter!

I want to get in and out as quickly as possible, and want to be prepared when I enter the station. I don’t know why, but I’m extremely nervous. I fret and worry over stupid stuff like this.

I’ve seen pictures of the main hall online.

Just a few questions:

1. You don’t need a passport or ID to buy train tickets in Belgium, correct? Just $ or credit card?

2. I plan on buying the 71 Euro Railpass (10 one-way trips that can be shared, going with my wife). Does this ever need validated? I assume I can buy one of these at the windows below the big digital board. Is it as simple as filling it in and waiting on the correct platform? Are the platforms well signed-off? 2nd class trains have a big 2 near the door, correct?

3. When I find out what platform my train is arriving, how do I know I am getting on the correct train (are they numbered, or just go by departure time etc.)? Is there an employee there to look at tickets when entering each train, or do they come around when you are already on the train? Do you just hop on the train when the door opens?

4. Going to Brugge, I assume I need to look for departures to Brugge, Oostende, or Knokke, correct? Coming back from Brugge, I assume to look for anything past Brussels or Brussels.

5. Why do they have paper boards (yellow boards, timetables) and a big digital one? Do they contain the same info?

6. Will there be sufficient room on these trains for luggage? We’ll each have a carry-on and nice-sized suitcase.

I realize I am probably very anal, and overthinking this! I just don’t want to look clueless either. Everyone here has been extremely helpful so far, thank you!









--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Author: PalenQ
Date: 04/10/2008, 02:07 pm
1- Yes
CC probably - sometimes a minimum amount is needed - not sure here but no id needed (except with cc like i had to do recently in Amsterdam buying tickets with one)

2-no idea

3-conductors only come around on the train, not usually on this type train at the door

there may be a staffer on the platfrom

there will be an overhead monniker saying where that train is going - Oostende or whatever the terminus station is and often key intermediate stations as well

Paper timetables are in stations for folks to see where their train is leaving from and just to give all trains leaving - it should have a platform number on it but these can be outdated or wrong at times

but info on the platform is clear and sometimes train cars have signs on them where each car is going

a 1 is for first class cars, a 2 is for second class cars - first class car often have a yellow stripe running along their tops

hop on when the train arrives, but let departing folks out first

many train are becoming conductor free and on the honor system so if you ticket or the 71 thing must be validated or self-cancelled do it before getting on or you could consider to be riding without a ticket if the conductor comes by before you have done so or on honor system trains spot checks to find and fine ticket scufflaws

5- yes as covered above - the one on the platform will or should be correct - paper signs can be confusing to scan for novices as they use symbols to indicate trains and what days they run - all trains are listed chronologically but some run only on weekends, not on weekends, holidays, etc. so if there is a train listed for Bruges at 13:15 check to be sure it's running that day

there are also train info counters where English is usually spoken and they will confirm platforms and print out schedules for you - there are often racks of printed schedules as well free.

6- yes as long as you can life the luggage potentially above your head - there are usually luggage areas at entrances to cars as well for large items

First class has more room but unless the train is mobbed in 2nd it's OK - in any case you will find space for your luggage, even if it's in an aisle - worse case scenario

4- yes

Author: rkkwan
Date: 04/10/2008, 02:18 pm
I am not sure if you want to switch trains at Central.

The trains from the airport will stop at Nord, Central, Midi in that order; while trains towards Brugge will also stop at Nord, Central and Midi also in that order.

Central is the smallest of those three stations with only 6 tracks I believe. While that means the shortest walk, my experience is that you have to be extremely alert when a train arrives at your platform whether it's actually your train. As there is a train that comes in every minute and stops for very short time (usually a minute or less). Also, all the platforms are underground and seems dark to me.

Midi is the largest, and you may have to walk far between platform to switch trains.

If I'm going, I'd switch at Nord. Trains usually stop at Nord and Midi for 2 minutes (vs 1 or less at Central).

Author: Cowboy1968
Date: 04/10/2008, 02:28 pm
I'd second rkkwan.
Central is more like a subway station. Narrow platforms, very busy and crowded, upstairs hall is not bad, though. Nevertheless, I'd also change either at Nord or Midi.

Why don't you get your tickets already at the airport's train station?

Author: yk
Date: 04/10/2008, 03:07 pm
< I realize I am probably very anal, and overthinking this! I just don’t want to look clueless either. >

Please! Take a deep breath in, and breath out. Relax!!! No one cares if you look clueless or not.

1. No ID needed

2. I know you need to fill in the lines on the 71 euro ticket before you board the train. I don't see how you can validate it beforehand though. Just ask the agent at the ticket window when you buy the ticket. Pretty much everyone in Belgium speaks English. Platforms have #s on them, and each platform has a display that shows the next train (train type, train #, and destination). It'll be easy for you to spot the 2nd class cars.

3. As stated above, there will be a sign at each platform showing what the next train is. No one will collect ticket at the platform, just follow the locals and get on the train.

4. Most of the time, the display will show the train, destination, and the cities/towns it stops in. Since Brugge and brussels are big cities, they will be displayed.

5. The yellow paper boards show the arrivals and departures for all trains at all times on every day. The digital display usually shows the trains for the next hour or two.

6. You should be fine.

Author: PalenQ
Date: 04/10/2008, 03:16 pm
the only reason to go to Centraal Station is if you want to put your bags in a locker or left luggage and walk the few blocks to the town centre and the Grand' Place and Mannequin Pis - Nord and Midi stations are much more removed, esp Midi

But if you're looking for the main station yes it's not metro-like Centraal but Midi (aka Zuid) station.

Author: ira
Date: 04/10/2008, 03:19 pm
Hi F,

>I plan on buying the 71 Euro Railpass (10 one-way trips that can be shared, going with my wife).

This one is new to me.

Do you have a link for it?

>I want to get in and out as quickly as possible,....I don’t know why, but I’m extremely nervous.

You are nervous because you want to rush. Slow down, you will be on vacation.

>..to buy train tickets in Belgium, .... $ or credit card?

Dollars won;t do you any good.

Either a cc or Euros.

Author: freshtodef
Date: 04/10/2008, 03:23 pm
Hello, thank you for the great answers so far!

The link for the 71Euro ticket:

http://www.b-rail.be/nat/E/tarifs/passes/rail/index.php

Author: Eli
Date: 04/10/2008, 03:30 pm
Don't see why you should have any problem at all. Don't shy away from asking, specifically at the ticket counter. Check out this link (SNCB's web site): http://www.b-rail.be/main/E/index.php
You'll find there answers to almost all your questions.

1. You just need $, E (that's a euro sign), CC.
2. Check out SNCB's web site under "travelling in Belgium" --> ticket types you'll see how to validate your pass for a specific jurney (hand writing using a pen)
3. On each platform you'll see an electronic board indicating next train and destinations (possibly main stops as well). e.g. in this photo to the left of the first wagon, albeit dark due to bad lighting... http://www.train-photos.com/picture/number109.asp
4. Definitely change at NORD or MIDI, not CETRAAL. Check out the timetable on SNCB's site. If you expand the "details" section, you'll realize that some schedules give you more time to change than others - up to 8 or 10 minutes which should be plenty.
6. Don't worry about luggage room. If there is no luggage rack, or if there is no space, just get your luggage on the train and push it to one side.
7. Relax, sit back and enjoy the ride

PalenQ

I'll add that the posted schedules in stations that ones with a white background are for arrivals and yellow-hued ones for departures

PalenQ

TRAIN CONNECTIONS AND CHANGING TRAINS, ETC
A common concern amongst novice railers is changing trains en route to a destination. And whilst taking a direct train with no changes is preferable always (even if it takes a tad longer as some other connection as is want to be the case at times) changing is usually no problem IF you plan it well

#1 Leave ample time between changes of trains - because trains can arrive late (especially in Britain) and some stations like Munich or Milan or Cologne, etc are huge places with dozens and dozens of tracks and sometimes with more than one part.
Usually there are at least hourly trains on main European routes if not more - so why schedule a dicey 5 min connection if it can be 35 mins or better yet an hour - relax have a coffee or drink at station cafes, etc.

COORDINATED CHANGES
Sometimes changes on train connections

don't stop long
bags ready throngs
posted timetables platforms
ask conductor
bahn.de
time between
late
not bad if another in few mins
check R rec

cross town changes only a few

PalenQ

Sorry about that sudden termination

COORDINATED CHANGES
Sometimes changes on train connections are 'coordinated changes' where the connection is guaranteed except perhaps in times of very late trains so even if train 1 is 10 mins late train 2 may be held up until train 1 comes in

but don't count on this blindly.

And if you have a short connection time for a change - have your bags, etc. ready and be by the door as it can take a while to get out otherwise, esp if many folks are getting out there

and trains don't usually stop at intermediate stations very long - a minute or two at times so be prepared and know about when you stop is coming up

similarly boarding at intermediate stations trains may not stop long so be ready - scan the TRAIN MAKE UP BOARDS on platforms if you have a reserved seat to see where your car will stop - some trains are many cars long and if you have to just board in a flash you may then have to traipse thru the whole train and potential crowded corridors and aisles with bags, etc.

The Make Up Boards will also indicate where first class cars are.

It's easier boarding and deboarding at terminus stations - where the train begins and then ends as you will usually have plenty of time even perhaps a half hour before the train leaves and thus after arrival some minutes,

TBC

posted timetables platforms
ask conductor
bahn.de
time between
not bad if another in few mins
check R rec

cross town changes only a few

PalenQ

If you do not know the platform for your connecting train there are usually posted printed timetables on platforms or least scattered around station where you can find your next train listed (chronolgical order) and it usually gives the platform numbers (though in a very few big stations platform numbers may not be fixed until shortly before the train is there)

In any case always cehck the printed tables with the huge overhead signs where the most up to date info will be for all departing trains in the next hour or so and that platform number is the definitive one - it may also not if a train is running late and not there yet when it should have been

Usally there are overhead monnikers at the entrance to each platform and then along the platform that have the most current info - telling where the next train is going to and if it is late, etc.

Or in England Cancelled - which only seems to happen endemically there.

And if you train is late and you miss your target connection then head to the timetables and search for the next one - watching for any R's with boxes around them - the universal symbol meaning that train must be reserved before boarding - then head to the ticket window if you have a pt-pt ticket good on any train or pass and get a reservation for that train.

Usually there are trains about hourly in most countries on mainlines so if you miss your connection all is not lost. But schedule ample time between trains in the first place IMO

TBC
bahn.de
cross town changes only a few

PalenQ

CROSS TOWN CHANGES

Most European cities have a 'Central Station' where most long distance trains come in though these cities may have literally dozens of secondary stations

But some cities, like Vienna, Paris, London, Barcelona, Lisbon, Oslo, Prague, Budapest and a few others may have two or more main stations (Paris has 6!)

So check schedules carefully when making time in between changes that the train will leave from the same station you come in on or allow ample time for a cross-town transfer

Often with a raft of luggage a taxi transfer will be most convenient and there always will be a taxi queue at any main station, night and day - but the queue may be long (like at Paris stations) so leave a lot of time between trains say coming into Paris Montparnasse and leaving from Paris Lyon for example.

Metros inevitably connect most stations as well or at least public transit (Vienna's West and Sud stations are connected by a tram.)

TBC
bahn.de to schedule changes
stations vs terminuses
airport trains

PalenQ

the bahn.de schedule site (German railways) is the easiest to sue for schedules all over Europe and it will break down the possible connecting trains and allow you to see connecting times, etc. and help you schedule a leisurely time, etc.
www.budgeteuropetravel.com has a link to bahn.de's English schedule page on their home page and the reason i mention this is that they also have a paragraph describing how to use the site for more than just train times - platform numbers, etc. www.ricksteves.com i believe links into every individual country train site (I gave links for all country trains at the beginning of all this as well) Raileurope.com does not nearly give all trains so that site should not be used to figure out connecting trains

PalenQ

stations vs terminuses

Not really vital info but interesting. a train terminus is one that is a dead-end for mainline trains (though it may have local trains or metros running out of it as well)

so the thing that may affect folks who do not like riding backwards as the train goes forward are often surprise when the train goes into a station then has to reverse itself to go out again and onto the next destination.

Rome Termini and Florence Santa Maria Novella are examples of dead-end stations where trains will reverse

thus on a Florence-Naples direct train (which stops a few times but direct in the sense that you get on in Florence and off in Naples vs the trains that may terminate in Rome and then you change trains to go onto Naples)

you may be sitting going forward with the train but coming out of Rome be going backwards

If you know this is going to happen then you may want to scope out empty seats nearby and relocate before lots of folks may board in Rome - if going backwards or not is vital to you (and it is to many people i talk to - they just cannot stand going backward)

When making a train reservation you can, if at a window, request which direction you will be going in and if the train reverses reserve the forward facing seat for the longest portion of the trip - either before or after it reverses.

Most stations are not terminuses and the train from La Spezia will stop at Pisa Centrale and dozens of other stations but always keep going in the same direction

It's only a handful of large city stations that are terminuses - Rome Termini, Florence SMN, Venice SL (obviously), Antwerp Centraal (but not for long), Barcelona Franca, all Paris stations - St Lazare, Nord, Est, Austerlitz, Lyon and Montparnasse, Tours, Munich Hbf, Lucerne, Zurich, etc.

cybertraveler

bookmarking...thanks PalenqueBob!

PalenQ

cybert - thanks. And if anyone has any questions please ask? If i don't know the answer i'll fudge one for you.

TRAINS SHARING THE SAME PLATFORM
Though this is relatively rare in some large stations there may be a Track 1a and 1b for example and there may be two trains on the platform - one will head out one way and the other another way

this is very common in Holland - so you sometimes need pay attention to more than just the platform number. And always check the overhead monnikers by each train to see exactly where they are headed.

And delayed trains are not uncommon either so if you're expecting the 10:35am Rome to Florence the train standing on that platform could be say the delayed 9:30am train going somewhere else and is here now because it's running late (more often than not in the U.K. it seems) - your train should roll in when the delayed train leaves

Rarely there are platform changes in situations like this at the last moment and there will be an announcement in local tongue - but if you see everyone making a mad dash from that platform just follow the crowd.

And sometimes trains are stacked one, two on the same track - recently in Italy the platform i saw on the overhead sign had a train standing on it that was going nowhere it seemed and my train was half way up the platform.

So again always look for signs on the train cars themselves as to where they are going

In any case many train staff speak train station English - enough to ask 'Is this the Florence train,?', etc. or fellow passengers as well.

You should not have any real problem but keep the above possibilities in mind.

Trains that split
Airport trains
Cehcks entering the platform or train

PalenQ

SPLITTING TRAINS
I've mentioned this before but will elaborate here since it's pertinent to boarding trains which may split enroute somewhere.
Always look at the destination signs on each train car to see where that car is heading as trains can split en route. Half the train in some station may be decoupled and the front half trundle off somewhere and the rear half then move off to a different destination.

A classic example of this is the Interlaken-Ost to Grindelwald and Lauterbrunnen train in Switzerland. Half the cars will have Lauterbrunnen on them and half Grindelwald and the train will soon split in two at Zweilutschen (sp?) and the front half head up say the Grindelwald Valley to Grindelwald that the remaining half up the Lauterbrunnen Valley to Lauterbrunnen

Check the destination placards when boarding trains to be sure you'll end up where you really want to go

Of course if you have a reserved seat you will have the exact car number of it and there will be no guessing game.

checks entering the platforms or the train

airport trains

PalenQ

TRAIN STATION INFORMATION COUNTERS

In addition to ticket windows most large stations have separate Train Information offices where they will print out any schedule for you - along with connecting train info and of course would inform you of any mandatory reservations, etc. Sometimes this info will also have platform info for all your trains.

At smaller stations this info can be had from regular ticket windows.

The largest stations will have a EURAIL AIDE office that will help you, even if you don't have a pass, answer any questions as well - this is often in the train information office as well. And if you have a pass and have any problems with it this is where you should head. If you lose your pass you can also buy a new Eurailpass at these places - but at a price IME always pegged at about 20% above the dollar price of the pass - so only do this in emergencies or if you could not get a pass before leaving. But in every large station in cities like Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, etc. you can indeed buy Eurailpasses if need be - but not however often two-country Eurail passes such as the France-Germany, Germany-Czech 'Eurailpasses' that may be marketed only by RailEurope

PalenQ

BREAKING YOUR JOURNEY DURING A DAY'S RAIL TRAVEL
When arranging your train schedule it's often nice to break your journey some nice place for a few hours by throwing your bags in a station luggage locker or left luggage (nearly all stations have them except in France and Britain and Spain where only a few key main stations have them, due to security fears and thus only have left luggage where they can also afford to have security screening and devices to scan the luggage)

and as train stations are often in the town centres then you can explore the towns for some hours before returning to the station, retrieving your bags and hopping on another train.

Beware however of trains that require reservations for your onward connecting train and be sure to take care of that in advance - which sucks because it ruins the spontaneity of hopping any train but in Italy, Spain and France many main trains do require reservations - nearly none in most other countries.

TBC
some great 2-hour stops
with overnight train
airport trains
station area hotels
station areas

PalenQ

CLASSIC 2-HR STOPS
In the above scenario i suggested that on some day's journeys it would be easy to break your journey in a city midway for a few hours - by throwing your bags in a train station locker or luggage office and then spending some hours there and then continuing on to your destination.

The following are some IMO great such 2-Hour stops

1- Amsterdam-Cologne-Rhine/Frankfurt
Cologne, Germany - Say if going between Amsterdam and the Rhine or Frankfurt - you have to go thru Cologne and the train station there is right next to the world-famous Gothic Cathedral (also biggest Gothic cathedral in Europe) - easy to do a few hours here and see this marvel as well as the neat Rhine promenade along the River or the famous archaeological museum next to the cathedral or meander around the adjacent pedestrian shopping zone - one of Germany's finest.

2-Zurich-Lucerne-Interlaken
Do the 50-minute train from Zurich to Lucerne, one of Europe's most gorgeous cities, set on to me Switzerland's most beautiful lake - the fjord-like Lake Lucerne
dump bags in station lockers and head for the nearby world-famous set of covered wooden bridges that also serve as art museums with triangular wooden paintings in them - they bridge a rushing river - the town center is adjacent to the train station - nice shops and monuments like the Lion's Monument a short walk away.
You could even hop on the Boats that leave from opposite the train station for a few-hour putz around the lake (100% covered by Swiss Passes) and then go onto Interlaken via the scenic alpine train over the Brunig Pass, along idyllic Lake Brienz to Interlaken and onto Wengen, Grindelwald, etc.
You could do Zurich-Interlaken via the Bern mainline route quicker than via Lucerne but the Zurich-Lucerne-Interlaken route is so much nicer (part of the fabled Golden Pass rail route)

TBC - Classic 2-hr stops
York, Dresden, etc.

Note all those towns merit more than 2 hours but 2 hours is also great to whet your appetite to later return!

PalenQ

GREAT 2 HOUR STOPS
U.K. YORK
Many folks blast direct via the East Coast mainline London to Edinburgh and go right thru wondrous York with maybe at best a fleeting glimpse of the world-famous Minister (cathedral) steps away from the station.
But York makes a classic few-hour stop (and again York has so much that better to spend a few days here but a few hours if nothing else in what many call England's cutest city and one of Europe's finest medieval walled towns.
It's just a tad over 4 hours straight away London to Edinburgh and York is smack about half way.
York's classic Victorian wrought-iton train shed - one of the railway world's architectural gems IMO has luggage storage and a tourist office for maps, advice, etc.
The on and off doubledecker tour buses also stop here in case you want to spend most of the day and end up in London later at night - these buses circulate around the main sights with commentary and you can get on and off anywhere on one ticket.
But in a few hours you'd just want to stroll over to the amazing Minster and parks and lovely grounds surrounding it and at least take a short walk on the town's fab medieval walls - a path is on top.
And stumble around the Shambles - a popular shopping street - York has great shopping and a thriving pedestrian shopping zone. Here also is Betty's Tea Shop - a world-famous institution as belied by the oft lines to get into this ornate decored place for a spot of "tea, please"
Or if railway heritage is your bag England's National Railway Museum in old train sheds i guess is linked to the station by a walkway - lots of historic trains like Royal Trains, ancient steam engines, etc. - one of Europe's finest transport museums - esp good for kids the way they have made it family fare.
So York is the classic few-hour or longer stop.
(York also exhibits why the total flexibility of a railpass is good for such spontaneous visits - can hop any of the two an hour trains to either London or York - no need to buy tickets, etc.
Online discounts via nationalrail.co.uk are great but they are usually train specific, can't be changed and don't allow for stop-offs - flexibility of a pass is a key calling point for it - esp in Britain where passes are good on all the few dozen privatized rail franchises and on any train any time.

TBC
Antwerp
Brussels
Bonn
Stuttgart special interest
Bern
Lausanne
Geneva
Basel