PalenQ

SOME IMPRESSIONS, REPORTS FROM MY RECENT RAILPASS TRIP

The Matter of Class:

I note on each train not only the difference between first and second class but how many folks are in each

and though it varied from country to country, with England being the very worst for overcrowding, especially in 2nd class - sardine city there - in other places it was more haphazzard - depending on type of train, time of day, day of week, etc.

Suffice though to say i was, as always very glad to have a first class pass as there were really numerous times when second class was SRO and first class i had empty seats for me and my bags

TBC

PalenQ

FEET ON SEATS A NO-NO
Though i had known this cardinal rule of European trains for many years the seriousness it is often taken was reinforced twice on my journeys

Once on a dumpy regional train from La Spezia to Pisa i was in a car where i was in an aisle seat and the next or window seat was empty

At some point i draped my leg over the flat area between the seats - my shoes or feet were not touching any fabric.

I'm always careful when i can stretch my legs out and prop them up on an opposite empty seat i always put my jacket or day pack there and put my feet up on it - again no contact of shoe soles with seats

And though the Italian conductor had passed by several times and checked my tickets she seemed not to mind my casual draping of legs over part of the adjoining seat

But when two Italian train police came thru one gave me a very dirty look and bark about getting my feet off the seat.

He was actually agitated and demanded "ticket, passport"

Luckily the train conductor intervened and said my ticket had been checked and the cop gave me a warning and moved on.

I never want to do anything considered rude on trains and in this case i do not think i did. But beware of train nazis and feet on seats!

WINDOWS

PalenQ

SINGLE SEX COUCHETTES AND SLEEPER COMPARTMENTS?

I've copied an interesting question about night trains and whether ladies in particular can reserve berths in single-sex compartments - as well as sage advice, as usual, from GeoffH who has shown many times to be extremely knowledgeable about European trains.

Author: alecksonajetplane

First of all, I just wanted to thank all of you for helping me shape up my Europe itinerary for May. Because of the numerous help and various other posts I've read from here, I certainly feel a lot more confident and excited about my upcoming trip.

My itinerary calls for two night trains (Amsterdam-Prague and Prague-Budapest), and being a solo female traveller, I was wondering if it's possible to request for an all female compartment in advanced? And, if so, how, specifically, would I need to go about doing that?

I'm thinking of getting a T4 couchette right now, but am willing to get a T3 sleeper or a double if I am able to get a single-sex compartment.

Thanks in advance!

Author: scatcat
I think you can be in an all female compartment in you reserve a T3. I'm sure that you can not reserve an all female compartment in a couchette compartment. Unless the rules have changed in the past year, you may can request, but it will not be guaranteed.

Author: GeoffHamer
Sleeper compartments are always single-sex if shared by strangers: you will not have to share with a stranger of the opposite sex.
Couchettes are normally mixed, but a few trains do have female-only couchettes.
The Amsterdam-Praha train is a German City Night Line train. On these, you can no longer book a berth in a shared sleeping compartment, but there are female-only couchette compartments. These trains can be booked on-line via www.bahn.de.

Author: alecksonajetplane
Thanks for the info. I'll be getting a Selectpass, as well as an Eastern pass for my trip. I'm guessing that when I go and make my reservation for the night trains, I can just verify and ask to get an all female compartment with a T3, yes?

Are single-sex compartments automatic with sleepers, or is it something you need to verify? I'm not too worried about the Amsterdam-Prague leg, but I'm a bit apprehensive about the Prague-Budapest one as it looks like English isn't really as widely spoken by train ticket vendors (from what I've gathered).

Author: PalenQ
As Geoff says all-female couchettes are rare

triples and up usually possible - i'll give you one reference to call to make sure - Linda at Budget Europe has booked trains, couchettes for years and will be able to answer this question i think with authority - 800-441-2387 - she can also book them but i usually wait until Europe and rarely have any trouble -not always that much cheaper but i demand flexibility - Fridays and Sundays IME are harder to book on popular routes. With your Eurail Select flexipass you of course know about the 7pm rule - board the overnight train itself after 7pm and the next day in your unlimited travel day - gratis travel from 7pm until midnight. Only applies to the overnight train itself and not connecting trains.

Author: GeoffHamer
Overnight bunks are of two basic types: sleepers and couchettes.
Sleepers are single-sex if shared with strangers.
A T3 is a sleeping compartment. If you can book a berth in a shared T3 compartment, it will be with people of the same gender. However, the Amsterdam-Praha train is a German night train and these no longer offer shared sleeping compartments - you'd need to book a single-berth sleeping compartment, or a berth in a shared couchette compartment. On this train, there are female-only couchette compartments.
On the Praha-Budapest night train, you should be able a book a berth in a T3 sleeping compartment which will be single sex. Sleeping compartments are never shared with strangers of the opposite sex.

Author: suze
You'll need to pay extra on top of your rail pass for sleeping accomodations.

Private 2-person cabins are single sex. Couchette bunks/cabins (3-6) are mixed.

PalenQ

WINDOW FETISHES

Though it's becoming less a problem with the move to climate-controlled trains with windows that do not open on older or local trains opening or closing windows can raise local hackles

This is especially true in tunnels where for some reason many europeans dash to close the windows and sometimes give disapproving looks if you don't.

I'm always one to want to go with the flow but i often forget this courtesy.

The fact that windows no longer open on newer trains that most tourists will be taking is another problem - when the climate control more than occasionally IME fails and the car turns into a heat box

And i also lament the fact that windows don't open since for years a pleasure what to lean out the windows as the train rolled along - of course not too much that the metal electrical wire support pulls didn't knock your head off - thus the ubiquitous signs about it's dangerous to lean out the window, written in four languages.

A poor development recently has been a lack of window washing - on my recent trip windows were often annoying dirty and even, especially on regional trains graffitied up or scarred by vandals.

Some Italian regional trains the graffiti maestros even paint over parts of windows

I once read someone saying they took a squeegee to Europe with them and would wipe of the outside window before departure!

PalenQ

FEET ON SEATS CONTINUED

One incident that left me struck by how serious some can take feet on seats happened in a Rome-Lecce night train i was on - a 4 person compartment.
I had my shoes on as we all just boarded and got situated - there was no obvious ladder anywhere to get to the top berths (ladders can be incredibly hidden away) - so when a lady came in with a heavy bag and wanted to put it on her top berth i grabbed it, and no ladder stepped on the very corner of the lower berth to wedge it up there.

I immediately got dirty looks from a middleaged Italian but it didn't quite register why

Later when - seeing no ladder - i again stepped on the lower berth corner to get into my top bunk the guy made some mean comment and then i understood and apologized profusely.

Still there was no ladder and when the next time i tried to get to my bunk the Italian guy finally pulled the ladder out of somewhere and that solved the problem

Why he didn't produce the ladder before is a mystery as i clearly stepped on the corner of the berth because i thought there was none

Anyway i would not go stepping willy-nilly over seats or berths and in retrospect should have taken my shoes off first (though my socks may have been dirtier!) - but really i thought the guy is going to put the sheet over the berth anyway so why all the fuss?

Anyway be warned - feet on seats in a no no.

litefoot

How safe is the train? sf looking to take the train round trip from Rome to Paris, Paris to Lourdes. Flying is pretty expensive compared to the Eurorail Pass Italy to France 4 day pass. How does the train handle passport stamps once you cross the border? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

PalenQ

I'll address the easy one first - passport stamps - there will be no passport stamps because you are only going between Italy and France and as both are in the Schengen Accord of 'borderless' Europe there normally are no border formalities

That said the conductor usually takes you passport and ticket (or railpass) when when he comes around right after take off and then will return them about 45 minutes before arrival - this is standard procedure so if border officials do want to look at passports you are not woken up.

I'll address you major concern of safety later as i don't have much time now save to say IME they are very safe if you take the proper precautions.

PalenQ

<How safe is the train? looking to take the train round trip from Rome to Paris, Paris to Lourdes.>

assume you are taking the night train Paris to Rome if you are going direct

day trains are extremely safe for your person but watch your luggage if you put them at the ends of the cars - usually room by your seat in the overhead racks

I see no security issues based on decades and literally thousands of train trips - none on the train

you have to watch stations for pickpockets and bag snatchers who may try to distract you - it's not likely to happen but does - Rome's station is one to be vigilant (but not paranoid - you'll only be pickpocketed if negligent and naive - anyone coming up to you is perhaps not up to any good)

If it's the overnight train then it's a slightly different matter. They are extremely secure unless:

you sit in regular seats with open access to anyone throughout the night - then it's rather dicey perhaps - again not likely but bags could be stolen

but most folks pay extra (pass covers the rail fare but not sleeping accommodations on the train) for a secure sleeping berth - either in a multi-person couchette shared with strangers or in private 1- 2 or 3- person rooms with doors that lock - so very safe.

all compartments, even couchettes, have now more than one lock it seems - a regular lock and a bolt lock that can only be opened from the inside - if you keep it locked you will have no problems.

That said if it's a private compartment you control the lock

but in shared couchettes everyone has to lock the door when they go out at night to the loo, etc. and IME some do not. I always secure my luggage in a spot away from the door and of course keep my valuables with me.

so overwhelmingly IMO all these trains are extremely safe for your person - safer than on streets like in Rome i'm sure - but keep the doors locked as there are indeed reported luggage thefts.

Don't worry - be prudent - no problem.

PalenQ

NOTES FROM THE (RAIL)ROAD CONTINUED

Note - anyone with a question please pose it - i don't know all the answers but will try!

QUIET CARS
A relatively new development that i first saw on British trains a few years back are Quiet Cars - where use of mobile phones are prohibited. Now more and more European trains also seem to have silence cars - often indicated by some sign portraying silence on the windows or on the outisde of the car

Personally i enjoy in England anyway where i can somewhat understand the language overhearing some of these ubiquitous cell phone discussions - what they're going to have for dinner, gossip, reasons the train will be late, etc.

So if carrying a cell phone on a train before using it be sure you are not in a Quiet Car.

And cell phones do indeed work from most trains these days - a few even have WI-FI on them though often it's only free IME in first class.

PalenQ

WATER ON TRAINS

Water - NEVER drink any water on trains in the lavatories and there will usually be signs in several languages warning against this - so only wash your hands with it. there is often soap and paper towels those these are aggravatingly all all at times.

not sure why but suspose the water is held in tanks that affect the quality - obviously good tap water put into the trains but the plumbing, etc. must be open to pollution, etc.

A few modern trains may have water coolers and cups and these are obviously fine.

You can do like many europeans do and bring your own liquids on the train, and should as there is not nearly food service on all trains, in fact they may be the exception. On long-distance trains there is usually a bar car and rarely a restaurant car - but these cost an arm and a leg. And there not uncommonly is a food cart that winds its way thru the train.

There are no restrictions that i know of in any country forbidding drinking of alcohol on trains but i suspose there may be some somewhere.

NEXT TOILETS ON TRAINS

PalenQ

TRAIN TOILETS CAN BE A REAL LET DOWN

Unfortunately though European trains are getting super fast and super comfy in most way their WC's for the most languish in the 20th century - the early 20th century IMO

Incredibly to me most regular trains still have toilets that are simply a conduit to the tracks below - it's just a pipe and you can see often the ground speed by below it. How this does not cause a health problem, especially for track workers beats me and if you look at train tracks you'll often see old TP, etc. strewn along them from passing train WCs.

This is why there are signs in this type of WC saying DO NOT USE THE WC WHILST TRAIN IS IN A STATION

These toilets do have proper seats like a normal toilet but sometimes you sit (or really squat) on a hard cold ceramic edge.

there is of course TP, soap and washing water (don't drink it!) but TP especially can be all used up. So take precauations, esp on long train rides or wait until the station where however you'll now often have to pay a euro or so to use station facilities - so some may want to take a budget dump on the train!

The condition of these WCs can range from OK to grungy - this to me is where European trains, trying to win over passengers, have let down their guard

that said on the newer high-speed trains toilets seem vastly improved - no dropping right to the tracks but self-contained so can use anytime and bigger and cleaner - really quite nice.

Howdey

bookmark

PalenQ

EURAILPASS PROBLEMS ON SOME TRAINS IN FRANCE AND ITALY???

I'm copying this recent Fodor thread because it addresses an important topic for pass holders - describing a problem that my info basically is only a problem in France - no other country except perhaps when trains are indeed full - rarely

Author: farrermog
Date: 03/08/2008
In the past few weeks there have been two letters in the Traveller section of The Sydney Morning Herald drawing attention to difficulties experienced by Eurail Pass holders in obtaining seats on trains in France and Italy, the most recent claiming that "On two occasions [in early February] I was told there were no seats for Eurail pass holders but I could buy tickets at full price for the same trains."

I am aware from advice on this site that reservations are usually required these days on long distance express trains in some countries, including France and Italy, but is it now the case that the Eurail pass might not be valid on certain services?

Author: lemidi
What I found using a Frenchrail pass in 2006 was:

1) Yes, seat reservations are required on certain (many) trains
2) But when you go to make a reservation, the alloted space for Eurail pass holders may be sold out even though full fare or higher fare seats are still available.
3) I found the most desireable times for some of my journeys were sold out if I tried to book the seats close to the departure date. Though, I did have a lot prebooked before I went to France luckily.

So, it's not that Eurail passes are "not allowed" on some trains it's just that the seats may be sold out for pass holders. Very similar to airfares. There are only so many seats available per fare and as the cheapest seats sell out there are still higher fares available.

While a Eurail pass may be cost effective it is not totally carefree and travellers should be prepared to be flexible. Try to prebook your trains before you travel to Europe if you know your itinerary.

Author: farrermog
Date: 03/09/2008, 01:50 am

lemidi - thanks for the clarification - things have changed since 'the old days'.

Author: GeoffHamer
Date: 03/09/2008, 06:37 am
I encountered this in December when trying to book a TGV journey from Lausanne to Paris. My rail pass gave me a small discount because it was valid in Switzerland, but I had to pay the normal fare from the French border to Paris.
To me, this is extremely dishonest of the SNCF. A rail pass holder has paid in advance for rail travel, so should not have to pay a second time.
Travellers need to be wary when considering a rail pass for France. On many routes, TGVs are the only option, and there may be no discount for a pass holder.

Author: farrermog
Date: 03/10/2008

Reservations information from the Eurail site -

http://tinyurl.com/2lrf2k

mentions that 'on some special trains... the number of seats available for Eurail travellers is limited'.

Author: farrermog
Date: 03/10/2008

Apart from the two examples given on the Eurail site - Alaris and Thalys - is there any way of knowing which services are subject to a Eurail Pass quota?

Author: lemidi
Date: 03/10/2008, 08:31 am
I don't think I'd rely on any answer to your question as I believe it is subject to availability as the trains fill with higher revenue fares.

I say this because some trains that were available on Raileurope.com for railpass holders before I left the US were not available when I checked once in France the day before the train ride. So it is capacity controlled and you will probably not get a concrete answer anywhere. Your safest bet if considering a rail pass is to see if you can prereserve your seats on the trains you want before you leave for your trip.

The only trains I had no problem with were the local trains that do not require a reservation or the trains I prereserved before going to France.

Author: lemidi
Date: 03/10/2008, 08:40 am
From the raileurope website:

"Seat Reservations and Overnight Travel
A pass allows the boarding of a train, bus, plane or boat, but does not guarantee a seat. Seat reservations are optional for most trains but are mandatory for all TGV, Thalys, Cisalpino, Elipsos, AVE, and Italian Day trains and selected EuroCity and InterCity trains and for all sleepers and couchettes. Couchettes. All tickets are sold including any necessary reservations whether selecting a seat or sleeper. If holding a railpass, reservations are sold as passholder fares."

"Reservations for Seats, Sleepers and Couchettes:
Reservations are mandatory on certain day trains and on all night trains.Reservations are based on availability at the time of confirmation. Reservation fees are not included in the pass price and must be purchased separately. On certain high speed trains passengers are required to purchase a pass holder ticket, which includes the cost of the reservation.

Additional Charges:
Seats, sleepers and couchettes, pass holder tickets for travel on trains such as Eurostar, Italian Day trains, AVE, Talgo, Elipsos, Thalys, Cisalpino, etc. luggage checking, and port taxes, are all subject to additional charges which are not covered by the passes. These, including meals and refreshments, are all to be paid separately. Luggage checking, port taxes, meals and refreshments as well as seat reservations, sleepers and couchettes reserved locally must be paid abroad in local currency."

Author: GeoffHamer
Date: 03/10/2008
The information on the Raileurope website quoted by Lemidi is clearly out of date.
The problem in France is that the SNCF limits the number of seats available to rail pass holders on TGVs. A train may have seats available, but they can only be reserved by paying the full fare even for somebody who has already paid for a rail pass.
The railways in other countries still honour rail passes, and a rail pass in Germany or Switzerland, for example, allows access to any train, with only reservation fees to pay.

Author: lemidi
Date: 03/10/2008, 10:29 am
It is not out of date. The website clearly states that a seat reservation is mandatory on the TGV.
What they should add however is that the seats are capacity controlled and space is extremely limited to railpass holders and passengers should be flexible with their schedule.

In one of my situations, when I tried to make a reservation the day before I wanted to use my pass on the nonstop TGV from Toulon to Paris I could only get connecting trains or a direct at 5:40AM. When I had checked for the same availability several weeks before there were many more options available at better times even for a pass holder. I should have reserved earlier. I decided on the 5:40AM, yuck and only had to pay the minimal seat reservation fee. If I wanted the better train time of course I could have done as the above poster and paid a full fare
but I wasn't going to do that.

Author: PalenQ
Date: 03/10/2008
This has been a problem on French TGVs now for three or four years - a limited number of seats for passholders even if full fare seats are available

suggest you make your reservations when you buy your pass if the trip has to be done at a specific time, etc. Cost more but in effect may cost less.

In Italy i have not seen any evidence of this problem in my many train trips there recently but you do have to pay a steep supplement of 15 euros for each Eurostar Italia train and that may be what they are complaining about

The French thing simply sucks and will turn folks off buying passes. The worst line seems to be Paris-Avignon-Nice

Often there are alternative trains and routes you can book - like if you can't get on a Paris-Avignon TGV then try the twice hourly Paris-Lyon TGVs and if need be take a regular local train to Avignon, etc.

PalenQ

CAR-CARRYING AUTO TRAINS
Even folks on a motoring tour may want to avail themselves of the dozens of Auto Trains that carry your car and passengers (in train cars, not your car)

These are mainly if not all night trains i believe and criss-cross Europe - like a Calais-Riviera service - mainly secondary stations near major towns. they often seem to serve odd destinations - like ski areas in Austria in winter but really do crisscross Europe

You drive your car unto a trailer train for cars or perhaps they will drive it on for you

then you get a couchette or sleeper car berth and wake up in the morning for a breakfast of rolls and coffee that seems to be included - served while staff rolls your cars off the train.

These trains run regular routes but are more frequent during vacation periods and may only run on certain days perhaps but often nightly.

I've only done two of these trains and found both very convenient. Once when driving from the Paris area to the Riviera rather than driving back to Paris - a long haul of course, i spent more time in southern France then hopped the car-train from Avignon to Paris (Bercy) - though it was fairly expensive so are predatory tolls on French autoroutes and petrol, now about $8/gal.

So motorists should keep the nifty car trains in mind.

PalenQ

ACCESSIBILITY AND TRAIN FOR PHYSICALLY CHALLENGED

Unfortunately a train trip for anyone who cannot go up a few steps can be hard without advance planning to see which station offer full accessibility for wheel chairs.

Large main train terminals (a station where the train terminates and does not go on forward to another station) are large very good in terms of accessibility - there are rarely any steps to go up and down as it's all on one level and you can reach all the tracks without any stairs or underground passageways. And in main stations like Amsterdam Central which do require steps to reach the main upper level there are inevitably escalators AND lifts.

But at intermediate stations this is not always the case so before leaving the main station inquire about accessibility at the station you will get off

If it does not have a lift it will often provide special assistance to handicapped passengers to help them out.

TBC
Special areas on trains for wheelchairs

Boarding trains - steps

night trains - special compartments

PalenQ

BOARDING TRAINS - MIND THE GAP

Though some new TGV trains, etc. have flat floor entries this is still rare on trains as a whole as there is inevitably at least one if not a few rather steep steps to negotiate to board the train.

Why trains can all be flat entried is a mystery but it must have something to do with train techology making them necessary and the flat that platforms at varios stations are not all the same height. And there also probably needs to be a gap between train and platform for the same reasons. And the gap can at times require a big step or jump really from the train.

Anyway very few trains will enable wheelchairs to roll on without help. Many stations do have lifts just for wheelchairs but i think these need to be arranged and as trains only stop a few minutes at intermediate stations it has to be done quickly.

WHEELCHAIR 'SEATING' ON TRAINS
The newest trains may have special areas for chairs and WCs that are chair accessible. On most trains lavatories are much to small to accommodate chairs, however. On most long-distance trains there is room for chairs in the between the carriages vestibules.
On many trains you may be able to buy wheelchair tickets at prices everyone else does but have a companion to help and this person may often get a sizeable discount.
Lest i sound too discouraging let me say i've seen lots of chairs on trains so it can be done but do your homework first and always inquire at stations ahead of time.

TBC

PalenQ

PILOT SEATS ON GERMAN ICE TRAINS

Author: PalenQ
Date: 03/17/2008
I was happily shocked upon boarding the newest brand of ICE trains - crack German trains that link main cities - that i stumbled into the first car and saw what i'll call pilot seats that put you next to the train driver practically and give you a view out the front window of this bullet train that goes up to about 190 mph on certain lines.

And the speed is more impressive when seen from these seats IMO - seeing the track ahead.

These seats are of course in the first car and this is inevitably first class on ICE trains i think.

Not sure if you can request book these or not but it's something rarely available on European trains.

This is only so i believe on the newest ICE train sets as the locomotive car seems to have been eliminated or put at the back of the train and the train driver just occupies a small area.

The ICE i took was on the Munich to Nuremburg line, part of which affords true high-speed running and just opened

Author: traveller1959
These cars are avaible on the third generation ICEs only - this means, on certain routes.

These cars are always first class. The trains of two of these cars, on in the front (with driver) and one in the back (empty). In some stations (e.g. Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof), train change directions. Last week I had a reserved seat in such a car, it was car no. 28.

But regardless of your reservatin and class - you may walk to this car and have a look!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Author: PalenQ
Date: 03/17/2008, 04:20 pm
t1959

do you know where the power car is located - in the middle or spread out amongst the cars like the new AGV has?

I did not think to look but i thought it could be in the rear but you say that can't be as both front and rear have these seats

I think rear could be fun as well

Yes anyone can walk up there - good for a photo shot



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Author: Dukey
Date: 03/17/2008, 04:51 pm
Are passengers still separated from the driver by that sheet of glass which he can turn cloudy?

Author: artstuff
PalenQ -

"do you know where the power car is located - in the middle or spread out amongst the cars like the new AGV has?"

I recently posted a question on another thread about high-speed rail lines in Europe, and one of the responses I received was a link to information about the configurations of ICE trains.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCi...nces_in_design

Under the section 1.3, History of the ICE, 3rd Generation - I quote the following:

"To overcome the restrictions imposed on the ICE 1 and ICE 2, their successor, the ICE 3, was built to a smaller loading gauge to permit usability throughout Europe. Unlike their predecessors, the ICE 3 units are not built as locomotive-pulled trains (albeit aerodynamically optimised), but as electric multiple units with underfloor motors throughout. This also reduced the load per axle and enabled the ICE 3 to comply with the pertinent UIC standard."

Does this help to answer your question?

Robyn

Author: altamiro
Date: 03/17/2008, 07:03 pm
>These seats are of course in the first car and this is inevitably first class on ICE trains i think.

Not correct - one end is 1st class, the other end is 2nd. Depending on the direction of the train you can enjoy the view in the 2nd class as well.

>do you know where the power car is located - in the middle or spread out amongst the cars like the new AGV has?

There is no power car, every second axle has it's own motor. The technology is not so new - but Siemens was the 1st to employ it in the high speed trains instead of subways and suburban trains.

PalenQ

FODORITES IMPRESSIONS OF 1ST AND 2ND CLASS
A current thread i'm copying here because it talks about a very much discussed issue - especially by novice railers who've never been on European trains before. I found Christina's take especially revealing (and echoes what i think pretty much) - but like she says to each it's a subjective thing.

"Amsterdam - Paris 1st class worth it?"
Author: danon
Date: 03/20/2008, 07:40 pm
Have you taken a train Amsterdam - Paris?
We'll be traveling on a Sunday in July ; I imagine it will be rather full.
Is the first class that much better to be worth the difference in price?

Author: Travelnut
I've never taken 1st Class on a Europe train, only 2nd class. It's always been comfortable enough. First Class is probably a tad more spacious and a little better upholstery.. maybe some services that aren't offered in 2nd class, but I don't know. The duration is right about 4 hours, and seems to go by soon enough...

Author: ekscrunchy
I've taken this train in both classes. How much is the difference in price today? If money is any concern, second class is more than adequate.

Author: PalenQ
I'VE taken both
2nd class is quite comfy
1st class a lot more comfy-
3 seats in the space of 4 means more room for legs and luggage and more likely to have empty seats nearby

And in 1st class on this train you do get a decent meal with wine, etc. served at your seat - nothing in 2nd class.

2nd class however is very nice as European trains go

Author: kerouac
1st class on a train is not at all worth the normal price difference with 2nd class. However, I sometimes take 1st class when booking on the internet, because you can often get 1st class tickets cheaper than 2nd class, or for only 10€ more, especially if you accept tickets that can't be exchanged or refunded.

In those cases, I absolutely go for it!

Author: Christina
I take both first and second class trains in France and Europe generally, depending on the distance and diff. in cost. No one can decide for you if it is worth the difference. To some people, if it cost only $5 more, it wouldn't be worth the difference. To others, it always is worth the difference.

You don't say what the price diff. is, so who knows. Lots of times, I don't think the diff. in price is really that great between first and second, so I opt for first for trips of 3 hours or more usually. I am not on any strict budget though, and don't travel by train a lot at home, so it's an easy splurge for me and I get enough pleasure out of those bucks. If you are even considering it, I suspect you aren't on that strict a budget, or you wouldn't even be thinking about it.

I do often like it because it's not as full as the other class, if I'm traveling with luggage a long distance. It isn't just more space (although that can be true) or the upholstery, sometimes the floor is different and the seat comfort, also. For example, I've been on second class trains where the seats weren't upholstered at all, but the first class ones were comfy (and sometimes there is no carpet in 2nd class). I've been on a 2nd class TGV packed with drunken young people on their way back home to Paris after a weekend who made a lot of noise and literally harrassed some elderly persons while everyone sat by and did nothing. I would have done something, but not being French and a smaller female, didn't think that would work so well (they were big and theatening, also--guys).

I"m not speaking about that particular train in particular, just the idea that anyone can objectively say whether it is worth it or not. It's a subjective decision.

Author: BillT
With first class you can also reserve your seat for a small charge ($10?). This could be useful if you are traveling during a busy season and want to be assured of your seats.

Author: GeoffHamer
You can reserve seats in both first and second class, but that's irrelevant in this case: all seats are reserved on Thalys trains and you cannot buy a ticket without a reservation.

PalenQ

WHEELCHAIR/HANDICAPPED ACCESS

As i said above the newer trains seem to have a special area for wheelchair seating by the entrances to some cars. (again the importance of checking at stations ahead of time or by phone, e-mail, etc.)

Some night trains - more and more have special compartments for chairs and a companion perhaps. these are sleeper compartments with a low bed and plenty of room to manoeuver and are by the entrance. I've seen toilets in these rooms as well. Many night trains though i think are not so specially equipped.

Navigating stations can be a problem however even though getting to the train itself is usually possible by lift if the platforms are not flat floor
But station environs are often congested and involve some steps - though more and more main stations are becoming fully accessible
With a companion of course makes it all the easier - esp if one can negotiate a few steps or curbs once outside.
I would welcome any experiences of physically challenged folks on European trains - the situation is improving but still has a long way to go.
There usually are however easily accessible taxi ranks - but to go by public transport is iffy IMO

PalenQ

THE LANGUAGE PROBLEM

For Americans traveling to Europe the first time there is often a huge concern with the language problem - will i be able to use the trains not speaking Swahili?

And the answer is a loud YES

For lots of reasons:

Train info in stations is very well presented - huge overhead boards tell you which trains are leaving from which tracks

On each platform there is an overhead sign telling where that train is going

Train cars often have a placard on them telling exactly where the car is headed with key intermediate stops denoted

Conductors on trains and on platforms are helpful and inevitably speak what i call train station English - enough to tell you what you want to know

On trains with a Eurailpass at least conductors then know you are a foreigner and often IME ask you where you are going, etc. to help you

the universal symbols used on most trains in most countries should be learned and this simplifies reading schedules

TBC