Castles, Cathedrals, and Stately homes
Dec 31st, 2003, 07:31 AM
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Castles, Cathedrals, and Stately homes
My eyes are beginning to cross, I've read so much on this stuff! I really appreciate feedback on the following: My husband and I(40-ish) are traveling to the UK for the first time in Sep. and will be going to Eng., Scotland, and Wales. We will have a car. I have narrowed down destinations somewhat but am hoping for help on determining which stops below are must-see.
Castles - Caerphilly or Conwy in Wales?
We are planning on doing Glamis in Scotland and Warwick in England as well.
Cathedrals/Abbeys - We are definitely doing York Minster. I have to eliminate either Salisbury or Canterbury Cathedral. Which?
Also, I would like to do either Melrose Abbey or Fountains Abbey. Which?
Homes/Gardens - There are so many! I'm thinking we can do 2, maybe 3. I've narrowed down to:
Hampton Court, Castle Howard, Blenheim Palace, Leeds Castle, Burghley House, and Chatsworth. Which?
Sorry about asking for so much advice but we're amateurs! Thanks in advance.
Castles - Caerphilly or Conwy in Wales?
We are planning on doing Glamis in Scotland and Warwick in England as well.
Cathedrals/Abbeys - We are definitely doing York Minster. I have to eliminate either Salisbury or Canterbury Cathedral. Which?
Also, I would like to do either Melrose Abbey or Fountains Abbey. Which?
Homes/Gardens - There are so many! I'm thinking we can do 2, maybe 3. I've narrowed down to:
Hampton Court, Castle Howard, Blenheim Palace, Leeds Castle, Burghley House, and Chatsworth. Which?
Sorry about asking for so much advice but we're amateurs! Thanks in advance.
Dec 31st, 2003, 07:58 AM
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Bunz-
Salisbury Cathedral was gorgeous...I have never been to Canterbury, so can't answer that one...
Blenheim was interesting but not an all-time great one for us...maybe someone else can advise on the homes...
We did do Anne Hathaway's cottage and that was charming and fun..(thought I would throw that in to confuse you even more)...
Salisbury Cathedral was gorgeous...I have never been to Canterbury, so can't answer that one...
Blenheim was interesting but not an all-time great one for us...maybe someone else can advise on the homes...
We did do Anne Hathaway's cottage and that was charming and fun..(thought I would throw that in to confuse you even more)...
Dec 31st, 2003, 08:44 AM
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I haven't been to most of the places you are considering. But I have been to York, Canterbury and Salisbury cathedrals. Salisbury is very pretty, all the same style, very uniform, but I found it rather cold and slightly boring. I tend to prefer atmospheric places to those that are architecturally perfect.
Canterbury was excellent in that respect. It felt mysterious and otherworldly. And from a historical standpoint, you can't beat Canterbury. The Beckett memorials are rather moving, and two of my favorites, the Black Prince and Henry IV, have gorgeous tombs at Canterbury.
On the other hand, Salisbury has a much prettier prospect. The views of Canterbury Cathedral from the outside are a bit cramped and awkward. I preferred the town of Canterbury also, in spite of its touristy disposition. But either Salisbury or Canterbury are lovely destinations. I loved them both, I can only be this critical because the UK has such an embarrassment of riches.
You'll love York, it was fabulous. My favorite cathedral is Lincoln however. Few people go there, which was a large part of its charm to me. But I thought the town was pretty, and the cathedral was beyond compare.
Hampton Court was one of my favorite destinations as well. I've been to England four times, the last time for three months, and I still haven't seen any of the other things on your possible itinerary. That tells you how much there is to see. Just see all you can and resolve to go back someday! Good luck!
Erica
Canterbury was excellent in that respect. It felt mysterious and otherworldly. And from a historical standpoint, you can't beat Canterbury. The Beckett memorials are rather moving, and two of my favorites, the Black Prince and Henry IV, have gorgeous tombs at Canterbury.
On the other hand, Salisbury has a much prettier prospect. The views of Canterbury Cathedral from the outside are a bit cramped and awkward. I preferred the town of Canterbury also, in spite of its touristy disposition. But either Salisbury or Canterbury are lovely destinations. I loved them both, I can only be this critical because the UK has such an embarrassment of riches.
You'll love York, it was fabulous. My favorite cathedral is Lincoln however. Few people go there, which was a large part of its charm to me. But I thought the town was pretty, and the cathedral was beyond compare.
Hampton Court was one of my favorite destinations as well. I've been to England four times, the last time for three months, and I still haven't seen any of the other things on your possible itinerary. That tells you how much there is to see. Just see all you can and resolve to go back someday! Good luck!
Erica
Dec 31st, 2003, 08:44 AM
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We've been to the UK 5 times now at 3 weeks each time and can offer this:
The predicate for your choices should be the route you select, so don't spend valuable time going too far out of your way. Because there is SO MUCH TO SEE AND DO in a limited duration, by definition, sites will unfortunately be missed.
In planning our trips and knowing we'd return, I've confined our itineraries to specific geographic regions. West Country one time, Scotland another time, etc. For instance, we've been to York, Salisbury and Canterbury but each in a different year.
So in conclusion, the good news is that no matter what you choose, you can't go wrong! But why don't you consider not driving such distances, saving those missed goodies for trips in future years?
The predicate for your choices should be the route you select, so don't spend valuable time going too far out of your way. Because there is SO MUCH TO SEE AND DO in a limited duration, by definition, sites will unfortunately be missed.
In planning our trips and knowing we'd return, I've confined our itineraries to specific geographic regions. West Country one time, Scotland another time, etc. For instance, we've been to York, Salisbury and Canterbury but each in a different year.
So in conclusion, the good news is that no matter what you choose, you can't go wrong! But why don't you consider not driving such distances, saving those missed goodies for trips in future years?
Dec 31st, 2003, 08:57 AM
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A lot depends on how long you are there and the rest of your route. I have been to all of the places you list (some several times, a couple 10 or more times)
For example - Melrose is wonderful - but if your route does not take you into the Borders it isn't a practical choice. Plus you can't see Melrose w/o also hitting Dryburgh (which is in a lovlier site and only a few miles away)
Canterbury is also great - and close to Leeds. But Leeds is only a great setting/garden - not much as stately homes go. Whereas Salisbury is so close to Stonehenge it is really a two-fer.
Burghley House is lovely - but not close to anything else you list. Chatsworth is magnificent - and you could visit it enroute from Wales or Blenheim/Warwick to York. I would definitely recommend Blenheim. It is beautiful, the parkland is wonderful, and it is on a road that easily gets you to Warwick.
Fountains Abbey is more a garden (Studley Royal) and is convenient to York so you probably don't have to eliminate it or Castle Howard.
Of the two Welsh castles you mention, I'd probably choose Conwy.
As for Glamis - it is a terrific place - but there are many Scottish castles that are as good or better plus have magnificent gardens.
For example - Melrose is wonderful - but if your route does not take you into the Borders it isn't a practical choice. Plus you can't see Melrose w/o also hitting Dryburgh (which is in a lovlier site and only a few miles away)
Canterbury is also great - and close to Leeds. But Leeds is only a great setting/garden - not much as stately homes go. Whereas Salisbury is so close to Stonehenge it is really a two-fer.
Burghley House is lovely - but not close to anything else you list. Chatsworth is magnificent - and you could visit it enroute from Wales or Blenheim/Warwick to York. I would definitely recommend Blenheim. It is beautiful, the parkland is wonderful, and it is on a road that easily gets you to Warwick.
Fountains Abbey is more a garden (Studley Royal) and is convenient to York so you probably don't have to eliminate it or Castle Howard.
Of the two Welsh castles you mention, I'd probably choose Conwy.
As for Glamis - it is a terrific place - but there are many Scottish castles that are as good or better plus have magnificent gardens.
Dec 31st, 2003, 09:00 AM
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Depending on when you are visiting England in September, you may catch the Burgley Horse Trials at Burghley House.
This is a huge 3 day international event and the whole area is very busy. You can still get in to the house, but will also have the added attraction of the 3 day event.
This is a huge 3 day international event and the whole area is very busy. You can still get in to the house, but will also have the added attraction of the 3 day event.
Dec 31st, 2003, 10:42 AM
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Hi bunz,
You didn't say how long your trip will be. That info might help people make suggestions.
I haven't been to Melrose Abbey, but I live just a few miles from Fountains Abbey, and I can tell you that it is really beautiful.
Hope you have a great trip, whatever you decide!
You didn't say how long your trip will be. That info might help people make suggestions.
I haven't been to Melrose Abbey, but I live just a few miles from Fountains Abbey, and I can tell you that it is really beautiful.
Hope you have a great trip, whatever you decide!
Dec 31st, 2003, 12:16 PM
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Choosing between Salisbury or Canterbury cathedrals is tough, but I would opt for Canterbury because of its major historical significance. Standing on the spot where Thomas à Becket was murdered sends chills down a sensitive spine. Try to stay for Evensong if you can. But see both cathedrals if at all possible--and of course Stonehenge would fit in nicely with visiting Salisbury. So would a visit to Stourhead Gardens--really splendid 18th-century layout with grottos and temples and such.
Both Fountains and Melrose Abbeys are lovely; flip a coin! The scenery around Fountains is perhaps a bit nicer.
As for the stately homes, I'd go with Hampton Court by all means, and certainly magnificent Chatsworth. Castle Howard is fairly new in the scheme of things; so make the third Burghley House, again for its historic interest. However, if you do get to Salisbury, Wilton House would also be good.
You clearly have a good itinerary going; how much time will you have over-all? You might find that you're trying to cover too much ground on a first trip, which is just what we did way back when! But we sure saw a heck of a lot.
Both Fountains and Melrose Abbeys are lovely; flip a coin! The scenery around Fountains is perhaps a bit nicer.
As for the stately homes, I'd go with Hampton Court by all means, and certainly magnificent Chatsworth. Castle Howard is fairly new in the scheme of things; so make the third Burghley House, again for its historic interest. However, if you do get to Salisbury, Wilton House would also be good.
You clearly have a good itinerary going; how much time will you have over-all? You might find that you're trying to cover too much ground on a first trip, which is just what we did way back when! But we sure saw a heck of a lot.
Dec 31st, 2003, 12:33 PM
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All of this feedback is GREAT! It really is very helpful. We will be in UK for 2 wks (wish it was 2 mos.!) and plan on driving quite a bit so I think we could make any of the destinations I mentioned work. Just trying to get a feel if some of them are more/less interesting. Thanks again and please keep sending replies.
Dec 31st, 2003, 12:49 PM
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Don't mean to put a damper on your excitement - but if your 2 weeks includes time in London (which I assume since you included Hampton Court - not to be missed BTW), you have a really, REALLY ambitious itinerary.
As I said, I've been to all the places you mention - in fact I took a friend to all of them except Canterbury, Burghley, and Wales during one trip -- however that was a 6.5 week trip.
London takes at least a few days to even scratch the surface. Warwick Castle takes most of a day, York city/minster takes a full day, Castle Howard/Fountains Abbey would take a full day, etc, etc.
Plus you want to go to Canterbury, Wales and at least as far north as Glamis. This is a awful lot of traveling in just 2 weeks.
As I said, I've been to all the places you mention - in fact I took a friend to all of them except Canterbury, Burghley, and Wales during one trip -- however that was a 6.5 week trip.
London takes at least a few days to even scratch the surface. Warwick Castle takes most of a day, York city/minster takes a full day, Castle Howard/Fountains Abbey would take a full day, etc, etc.
Plus you want to go to Canterbury, Wales and at least as far north as Glamis. This is a awful lot of traveling in just 2 weeks.
Dec 31st, 2003, 12:52 PM
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Oops - hit post too soon. You may need to re-think how many of these areas you can get to. Practically speaking - w/ only 2 weeks you should consider dropping either Wales or Scotland. Don't get me wrong - Scotland is my favorite place on earth and Wales is absolutely lovely - but you are trying to see a LOT of things in 3 countries.
Dec 31st, 2003, 01:08 PM
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Hello Bunz,
Although I have not been to all of the places you have listed, I would definitely visit:
Warwick / Conwy
Salisbury
Hampton Court / Blenheim Palace
I would keep Canterbury for the next visit (because of geography) and skip Leeds Castle (because of geography and disinterest - unless you love gardens and aviary's)
Given the places you expect to visit, the geography between and among them, rental car as your transportation (1st time no less), I assume you have at least two to three weeks in the UK.
Have a super trip.
Although I have not been to all of the places you have listed, I would definitely visit:
Warwick / Conwy
Salisbury
Hampton Court / Blenheim Palace
I would keep Canterbury for the next visit (because of geography) and skip Leeds Castle (because of geography and disinterest - unless you love gardens and aviary's)
Given the places you expect to visit, the geography between and among them, rental car as your transportation (1st time no less), I assume you have at least two to three weeks in the UK.
Have a super trip.
Dec 31st, 2003, 01:22 PM
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I agree with jheim about your ambitious itinerary. But assuming you're determined to do it, here's my two cents worth:
I agree with janis re: going to Salisbury if you want to see Stonehenge. I wasn't particularly impressed with the cathedral, like EricaS my favourite is Lincoln. But if you wanted to see Stonehenge, you could also see Stourhead Gardens, which are magnificent and Wilton House.
But if Stonehenge isn't important, I'd opt for Canterbury. I wouldn't see Leeds, we found it a total waste of time, but you can substitute a number of places in the area. Knole, for instance, is magnificent, Chartwell (Churchill's home) is wonderful, Scotney Castle is very picturesque as is Hever. For gardens - Sissinghurst. Dover Castle has great underground war exhibits. And Bateman's if you're a Rudyard Kipling fan.
Warwick is a good choice for a castle and while you are in the area there's also Sudeley Castle, which I've always found quite romantic.
Is there a reason you didn't put Caernarfon Castle in your list for Wales? I'd pick it over Caer. or Conwy, but if you've already seen it, I'd go with Conwy. (Can also see Bodnant Gardens and Penrhyn Castle in area.)
Hampton Court, Chatsworth and Burghley are great. (A note: if you are using the British Heritage Pass, Burghley isn't included. All the other places mentioned are.) Blenheim for me is so overdone and decadent, I didn't enjoy it, but others I have travelled with wanted to see how the very, very rich and powerful once lived. Haven't been to Castle Howard.
As TuckH said, there's so much to see, you really can't go wrong. Good luck.
I agree with janis re: going to Salisbury if you want to see Stonehenge. I wasn't particularly impressed with the cathedral, like EricaS my favourite is Lincoln. But if you wanted to see Stonehenge, you could also see Stourhead Gardens, which are magnificent and Wilton House.
But if Stonehenge isn't important, I'd opt for Canterbury. I wouldn't see Leeds, we found it a total waste of time, but you can substitute a number of places in the area. Knole, for instance, is magnificent, Chartwell (Churchill's home) is wonderful, Scotney Castle is very picturesque as is Hever. For gardens - Sissinghurst. Dover Castle has great underground war exhibits. And Bateman's if you're a Rudyard Kipling fan.
Warwick is a good choice for a castle and while you are in the area there's also Sudeley Castle, which I've always found quite romantic.
Is there a reason you didn't put Caernarfon Castle in your list for Wales? I'd pick it over Caer. or Conwy, but if you've already seen it, I'd go with Conwy. (Can also see Bodnant Gardens and Penrhyn Castle in area.)
Hampton Court, Chatsworth and Burghley are great. (A note: if you are using the British Heritage Pass, Burghley isn't included. All the other places mentioned are.) Blenheim for me is so overdone and decadent, I didn't enjoy it, but others I have travelled with wanted to see how the very, very rich and powerful once lived. Haven't been to Castle Howard.
As TuckH said, there's so much to see, you really can't go wrong. Good luck.
Dec 31st, 2003, 01:40 PM
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First of all, Brimham, I could not be more jealous of you!
OK, having visited both Melrose and Fountains Abbey...I have to say that FA is a do NOT miss. It was easily one of the best experiences we've had. Salisbury is amazing (haven't been to Canterbury) and York Minster is FABULOUS-as is the rest of the town-hope you have the time to see it. Conwy is lovely (didn't get to Caerphilly, wish we had) but so is Caernarfon and Beaumaris (easily my favorite of the 3). Have a great time!
OK, having visited both Melrose and Fountains Abbey...I have to say that FA is a do NOT miss. It was easily one of the best experiences we've had. Salisbury is amazing (haven't been to Canterbury) and York Minster is FABULOUS-as is the rest of the town-hope you have the time to see it. Conwy is lovely (didn't get to Caerphilly, wish we had) but so is Caernarfon and Beaumaris (easily my favorite of the 3). Have a great time!
Dec 31st, 2003, 01:42 PM
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Try this...
First week, no car, London w/ Windsor, Hampton Court, Greenwich, etc as day trips.
Second week, with car, Kent + East Sussex. Here alone, in a small geographical area, is a week-full of beauties - Leeds Castle, Hever Castle, Chartwell (Churchill's home- very much worth the visit), Ightham Mote, Sissinghurst, Scotney, Canterbury, Dover Castle, Rye, Hastings, Bodiam Castle, The Seven Sisters (beautiful white cliffs hike), etc, etc.
First week, no car, London w/ Windsor, Hampton Court, Greenwich, etc as day trips.
Second week, with car, Kent + East Sussex. Here alone, in a small geographical area, is a week-full of beauties - Leeds Castle, Hever Castle, Chartwell (Churchill's home- very much worth the visit), Ightham Mote, Sissinghurst, Scotney, Canterbury, Dover Castle, Rye, Hastings, Bodiam Castle, The Seven Sisters (beautiful white cliffs hike), etc, etc.
Dec 31st, 2003, 02:41 PM
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Please don't think we're crazy but we actually will not be spending any time in London other than flying in/out. We thought we would do London/Paris another time and devote this trip to seeing the rest of Britain.
Dec 31st, 2003, 03:29 PM
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No - that isn't crazy - and it will help not having any time devoted to London.
With that add'l info you will be able to see more of your list - but unfortunately some areas are just too far flung.
It would probably be best to Skip Canterbury/Leeds (even tho you could easily spend 3 weeks in Kent and not see all the castles and gardens). It is east of London while everything else is west/north of the city.
A semi-reasonable Itinerary would be something like 1st night Salisbury > 2 or 3 nights in the Cotswolds for Woodstock/Blenheim/Warwick > 2 nights near Conwy > via Matlock (Chatsworth) to York for 2 or 3 nights (Castle Howard/Fountains/Minster) > 2 nights in the Borders (Melrose, etc.) > 3 nights in Edinburgh > Home.
That really fills a 2-week trip - a lot of travel though . . . . . .
With that add'l info you will be able to see more of your list - but unfortunately some areas are just too far flung.
It would probably be best to Skip Canterbury/Leeds (even tho you could easily spend 3 weeks in Kent and not see all the castles and gardens). It is east of London while everything else is west/north of the city.
A semi-reasonable Itinerary would be something like 1st night Salisbury > 2 or 3 nights in the Cotswolds for Woodstock/Blenheim/Warwick > 2 nights near Conwy > via Matlock (Chatsworth) to York for 2 or 3 nights (Castle Howard/Fountains/Minster) > 2 nights in the Borders (Melrose, etc.) > 3 nights in Edinburgh > Home.
That really fills a 2-week trip - a lot of travel though . . . . . .
Dec 31st, 2003, 11:06 PM
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Hi
I too live near Fountains Abbey/Studley Royal and would give it my vote. It is NOT mainly a garden - the ruins of the abbey are amazing and there's plenty to see. Parts of the year it is floodlit in the evenings, and with the Gregorian chants 9from hidden speakers!) it is truly a wonderful and magical place. Plus, because it is pretty remote, you often have the place practically to yourself (but NOT on hot summer afternoons, lol, and we DO occasionally get those up here). A September evening sounds good - have a look at the National Trust website as they own the property and will have details. Although it is quite remote it is in easy travelling distance from York and its Minster, plus all its other attractions, and also close to Castle Howard. So......with 3 of your choices in North Yorkshire I'd say head up here!
I also love Chatsworth and if you want a magnificent house AND gardens this is your place.
I too live near Fountains Abbey/Studley Royal and would give it my vote. It is NOT mainly a garden - the ruins of the abbey are amazing and there's plenty to see. Parts of the year it is floodlit in the evenings, and with the Gregorian chants 9from hidden speakers!) it is truly a wonderful and magical place. Plus, because it is pretty remote, you often have the place practically to yourself (but NOT on hot summer afternoons, lol, and we DO occasionally get those up here). A September evening sounds good - have a look at the National Trust website as they own the property and will have details. Although it is quite remote it is in easy travelling distance from York and its Minster, plus all its other attractions, and also close to Castle Howard. So......with 3 of your choices in North Yorkshire I'd say head up here!
I also love Chatsworth and if you want a magnificent house AND gardens this is your place.
Jan 1st, 2004, 08:41 AM
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For more info about Fountains Abbey, see their website:
http://www.fountainsabbey.org.uk/
Fountains Abbey has some wonderful open-air events (Shakespearean performances, children's theater, and opera) in the evenings and I believe also on the weekends. Their events schedule for 2004 only goes up to August at the moment. However, the site says this:
"For events being held August - December, please telephone 01765 643196 / 643198. Some events are very popular and early booking is advised."
From the States, you would dial 011(to dial out of the US)-44(country code)-1765(area code)-64313196 or 643198(phone number). Ignore that zero before 1765, as that is only used when dialing within the UK.
http://www.fountainsabbey.org.uk/
Fountains Abbey has some wonderful open-air events (Shakespearean performances, children's theater, and opera) in the evenings and I believe also on the weekends. Their events schedule for 2004 only goes up to August at the moment. However, the site says this:
"For events being held August - December, please telephone 01765 643196 / 643198. Some events are very popular and early booking is advised."
From the States, you would dial 011(to dial out of the US)-44(country code)-1765(area code)-64313196 or 643198(phone number). Ignore that zero before 1765, as that is only used when dialing within the UK.
