Mpphred

Heading to Italy, Grrece, and Germany in September and was wondering how much cash (euro's) to bring.
- Do most restaurants take credit cards?
- Cabs, buses or any other mode of transportation? cash or credit

What denomination of Euro would be hard to pass on. I.e., in the states it's hard to use any bill $50 and over in most places.

Is it better to go to a bank to get euros off your credit card?

Any other advice?

markrosy

Be careful in Greece there are large parts of the countryside outside big cities that will not accept credit cards - cash only.

We had huge problems whilst sailing in The Ionian last year. Only Lefkas recongised cards - on all other islands were cash only.

We have never had a problem with cards throughout Italy.

zeppole

In Italy, use your ATM card to get euros as you need them. The machines in Italy are called Bancomats and they are all over the place, even in small towns. They are safe to use. Call your own bank and tell them you will be traveling, so they don't block your card out of security concerns the first time you use it in Italy.

Many Italian "bancomats" dispense mainly 50 euro notes, Merchants will accept them, but you will be a very popular person if you provide the small change along with the big note -- i.e., if you make a purchase that costs 12.45 euro, and the only bill you have is a 50 euro note, give the merchant your 50 note plus 2.45 euro in coin, or even just .45 if that is all the small change you have.

zeppole

PS. I meant to add that most restaurants in Italy take credit cards, as do most stores, and even some taxis.

StCirq

<<Is it better to go to a bank to get euros off your credit card?>>

Good God, no, that's about the absolutely worst thing you could ever do.

When you land, use your DEBIT card to get euros from the nearest ATM. Have your bank raise your daily limit before you leave home if it's not as high as you think you'll need it to be. Use the cash for small purchases (I haven't been to Greece for many years, so can't speak to that, but you can certainly pay for meals almost anywhere in Italy and Germany with a cc). Use your cc for the big purchases (hotels, expensive meals, etc.). I wouldn't carry around bills bigger than 50 euros, but you won't get anything bigger than that out of an ATM machine anyway.

Kristinelaine

We were very surprised last spring to be required to pay cash for ferry tickets in Greece. We were buying at the airport and the total was something like 350 euros and they would not take a credit card. Had to find an ATM fast and it put us in a bind because we couldn't get more out until the next day due to limits. Other choice, of course, was not to buy the ferry tickets there, but we really wanted to have them in hand.

Other places in Europe -- we've never had trouble using credit cards for large items. We also use the debit card-ATM machine method of getting enough cash for everything we can't charge.

Alec

In Germany, while credit card use is increasing, locals still mainly use cash or debit card (EC-Karte, associated with Maestro). You can use credit card in almost all service stations, hotels (other than small private-run pensions or guest houses), restaurants (some small family-run places don't) and larger stores (varies among smaller shops). You cannot normally use credit card in supermarkets (debit card is usually ok), city transport (usually from cash-only ticket machines) and entry charges. So always carry some euro. ATMs (Geldautomat) are everywhere, including villages.

kayd

To avoid being stuck with only 50s that Italian shopkeepers will hate to take for a E7 purchase, withdraw an amount that isn't a multiple of 50. If you ask for 280, the ATM will have to give you some 10s or 20s.

Alec

Or if the ATM is out of smaller notes, it will refuse to dispense cash other than in the multiples of 50 euro!

Motorino

I would check with your credit card bank and ATM bank before making this decision. Ask them:

1) what they use to calculate exchange rate
2) do they charge service fee on transactions that is % of purchase
3) Do they charge standard transaction fee
4) what is your daily maximum for ATM withdrawals

2 and 3 are different fees and most credit cards charge both while most ATM transactions do not carry either of these fees.

For these reasons typically a credit card is more expensive to use than ATM.

My credit card bank (a too big to fail) charges 3% of purchase price plus foreign transaction fee on every transaction - it's a double whammy.

The same bank has no fees on ATM transactions, making ATM charges significantly less expensive.

Another thing to watch out for in Italy - restaurants and bars may charge an exchange rate on credit and ATM transactions that is not market - they SOAK you. Ask before if they are calculating their own exchange rate on cards and if so use cash!

ATM machines are very simple and the fee is typically $5 euros plus your homebank fee typically $3.50 these days. This means each ATM withdrawal will cost about $10 US, therefore we usually take out $500 per time so we are paying less than 3% fee to get our cash which beats the credit card. If we were to only take Euros as we needed them, say $50 or $100 at a time we'd be paying 10% to use our own money - a bad deal.

For all these reasons ATM is the least expensive route b/c there are no fees.

kayd

Motorino, I think some of your points are not generally applicable to US bank credit and debit cards. For example, Americans using their debit cards at bank ATMs in Europe are not charged a per-transaction fee by the dispensing ATM bank.
And I know there are many US banks that charge only about 1% for overseas ATM withdrawals, plus a transaction fee of $1-5, so the total cost to withdraw $300 worth of euros would be $4-8.

As for merchants charging an exchange rate for credit card transactions, they are required to offer you local currency--that involves no exchange at all. If they offer your home currency, this is called Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) and is to be resisted always. Search on this forum for fuller discussion of this practice and how to avoid being taken by it.

For most US-issued credit cards, the foreign transaction fee is 3%, and that's the only add-on. So the cost of cash from an ATM vs. credit card is almost even, with a slight edge for the ATM -- in my $300 example, $3 for the percentage plus $5 for the fixed fee at the ATM, or $9 as the percentage on a credit card purchase. The ATM advantage is a bit better with larger amounts ($500--$10 vs. $15) but still not very significant in light of a multi-thousand dollar European holiday.

Christina

<<For most US-issued credit cards, the foreign transaction fee is 3%, and that's the only add-on. So the cost of cash from an ATM vs. credit card is almost even,>>

This isn't true at all. I don't know of any credit card that doesn't have a separate fee for withdrawing cash, and there are then interest charges from the date of withdrawal until you pay the bill on top of that fee. These are both in addition to the 3% foreign transaction fee. I think most credit cards charge a 3% flat fee for cash withdrawals, with a minimum of $10 or something like that. I am not talking about the foreign exchange conversion fee. My Capital One credit cards do. And then the APR on those charges is about twice as high as other things.

So if you took out 100 euro, you'd probably pay about $10 in fees (the minimum of $10), and then a conversion fee of $3 (if not Capital One or some others) and then an APR of about 25% for about one month until you got the bill and paid it.

Motorino

Kayd,

I live in foreign country (Italy and Argentina) and use US bank cards daily. Not sure what "most banks" means which is why i suggest call your bank with some key questions.

First, the bank in foreign country charges a withdrawal fee, everytime. Typically 5 euro. US bank always charges $3+. Then there could be a % on top or not-that's why i suggest the traveler who asked the question call their bank to get some info.

Second, your point about merchant exchange rates - not sure the traveler who posted this question would be able to navigate your advice during the stress of a foreign transaction - so I suggest finding out upfront what game the merchant is playing and if they are playing with currency exchange rates and local versus home then just pay in local paper currency. Who is to say the merchant is honest and offers to charge in local currency even if you ask? And if they do not what do you do when you come home and find a rather expensive bill on the card?

Third, as Christina pointed out you are completely incorrect on credit card ATM withdrawals which is the most expensive transaction available and has to be a last resort, which is why I didn't even touch it in my post. Again, call your bank to get more info.

BigRuss

<b>NEVER EVER GET CASH OFF A CREDIT CARD IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY.</b>

This is true unless your country and the foreign country use the same currency (e.g., you're French and visiting Spain).

In obtaining foreign currency, there is no course of action more fiscally irresponsible than procuring it with your credit card. If you get cash from a credit card, you will IMMEDIATELY begin to accrue interest at some otherworldly rate (19% or some-such), and will have to pay the hefty conversion fee (3% or more). This is not even a logical option and both Motorino's and Kayd's discussions are not accurate -- credit cards will cost more because you incur high interest from the moment the transaction concludes and will continue to incur it on a daily basis until the withdrawal is paid off. There is no 25-day grace period for cash withdrawals on your credit card.

US ATM cards never incur a fee charged by the Greek/Italian/German bank if you use that bank's ATM -- kayd is right. [You may get charged a fee at a standalone ATM at a convenience store.] Any fee you would be charged would come from your bank. If you pick the right US bank (a good credit union or CapOne), you only pay a 1% conversion fee or less.

There is a big difference in ATM card fees -- Chase still charges 3.5% conversion plus $3 per transaction -- that's $13.50 on a $300 conversion. CapOne may still eat the conversion fee, but if it doesn't it only charges the international 1% bank-to-bank fee, no profiteering -- $3 on a $300 withdrawal.

Note also: (1) unless you are using a CapOne credit card (or similar one that eats the ForEx fees), you will pay 3% for Visa/MC purchases and 2% for Amex as a conversion fee. The utility of Amex is questionable -- Europeans accept it far less than Visa/MC.

(2) Do NOT bring Euro with you from the US. Your bank will give you a terrible exchange rate and European airports have ATMs throughout. If the $ is at 1.25 to the Euro, your bank will charge you $1.32 or more. It's pure profiteering because the US banks do not carry many Euros.

(3) If you think these amounts are small, count up how many transactions you'll do in a day and you'll realize at least 2-3 decent meals' worth of savings.

Motorino

BIGRUSS is correct - credit card ATM withdrawals are the most expensive way to get cash.

BIGRUSS - I wrote:
"Third, as Christina pointed out you are completely incorrect on credit card ATM withdrawals which is the most expensive transaction available and has to be a last resort, which is why I didn't even touch it in my post. Again, call your bank to get more info."

Not sure what is "not accurate" about that. Please clarify BIGRUSS. Thanx!

cheryllj

"First, the bank in foreign country charges a withdrawal fee, everytime. Typically 5 euro. US bank always charges $3+."

Motorino: That is not my experience at all. I can't remember ever paying a fee to use my ATM card at a bank ATM in Italy (although it may have happened and I just don't remember), so it certainly isn't "everytime." And my US bank (Capitol One) doesn't charge a fee either, although most US banks do charge a fee for ATM withdrawals at other banks. But you can't say that US banks "always" charge a fee, because that just isn't true.

Motorino

Hi Cheryllj,

I am finding this string more and more interesting as I live in Italy and Buenos Aires everyday and use US bank cards everyday. The fact that you do not remember paying a fee to withdraw money at an ATM certainly doesn;t make it true. As I have stated and now seems more important:

Please check with your card issuer before using your card overseas

I challenge someone on this board to direct me to an ATM machine in Rome or Buenos Aires that will provide me with cash at no charge. This means I will get the published bank rate exchange and the bank will not charge me to use its machine. All takers welcome.

Let's prove Cheryllj and kayd correct - not that it will amount to a hill of beans for this traveler b/c even if a bank machine provides cash at no fee exists I highly doubt this traveler will find it or will have a card that charges no fee, thus "everytime" will be "everytime."

Click here for bank fees:
http://www.flyerguide.com/wiki/index...reign_Exchange

As for Capital One - WATCH OUT! CapitalOne does charge fees on ATMs depending on what state you opened your account so cheryllj is not entirely accurate.

Bottom line - call your bank and do your research - careful of the advice given right here.

cheryllj

I think what kayd was talking about was the cost of using credit cards to make a purchase vs. getting cash from an ATM. Using a cc to make a purchase generally incurs a 3% exchange fee at most US banks, while an ATM withdrawal may incur a 1% exchange fee plus a transaction fee.

Also, lots of people have talked about a "cash withdrawal" from a credit card, but there is no such thing because there is no account to "withdraw" from. It's a cash ADVANCE, which means it is borrowed money and must be paid back with interest.

If people understood that it's a loan, and stopped calling it a "cash withdrawal" when it isn't, maybe they would realize why it's an expensive way to get cash. If you have a bank account with money in it, use an ATM card to withdraw money you already have, don't use a credit card to borrow money that you have to pay back with interest that starts accruing the minute the ATM spits out the cash.

To sum up, cash withdrawal = good and cheap way to get euros (usually), cash advance = bad and expensive way to get euros (always).

logos999

Okeydokey, some statements cannot be correct, since I've got two credit cards that don't charge anything for withdrawing money in a foreign country in a different currency.
And the "Sparkasse Bank" the biggest ATM network in Germany charges an extra fee for CC withrawals from people who aren't
their customer. At least, they charged me.

I'd say it all depends, and your Bank should know.

cheryllj

"As for Capital One - WATCH OUT! CapitalOne does charge fees on ATMs depending on what state you opened your account so cheryllj is not entirely accurate."

Notice I wasn't the one using words like "never" and "always." My CapOne ATM card does not charge a separate transaction fee for using my ATM card overseas, with the particular account I have.

I did not mean to imply that CapOne NEVER imposes fees on some other person, with some other kind of account, because I would never make such a sweeping generalization about accounts that I am not familiar with.

From the CapOne website:

Capital One does not charge a fee for using your credit card for foreign currency transactions. Foreign purchases will be converted at the foreign exchange rate in effect at the time of posting the charge.