We rent 1-3 cars in France every year. We never had an IDL in the past & have never been asked for one from a rental agency. I was always the one on Fodors arguing that you didn't need one. However, on the latest "go-around" about IDLs a few months, I changed my opinion when I read an "official something" from the French government that stated a valid/non-expired IDL was required..

Stu Dudley

>>PalenQ--- is that International driving permit really necessary?? Is it just for certain countries?? We drove last year in England and Scotland and the rental company didn't ask for one.<<

PQ has posted for years railing against IDP's and only now posts to get one because we have brow beaten hm into submission -- not sure what his motivation is. Naturally you didn't need one for the UK since it is merely a translation of your drivers license - and presumably your lic. is in English - right?

An IDP (or an expensive official translation) is required to drive legally in France. The rental agency may or may not ask for one. But do get one.

Stu: >>We never had an IDL in the past & have never been asked for one from a rental agency. I was always the one on Fodors arguing that you didn't need one. However, on the latest "go-around" about IDLs <<

They aren't IDL's - it is an IDP .

Look, an IDP is a LEGAL REQUIREMENT to drive in France. Whether or not anyone at a car rental agency asks you for it or about it is entirely irrelevant - they have no stake in the matter and are concerned only about getting your money for the car rental.

I live in France. Police presence on the roads has increased significantly in the past year or so. You can almost count on being pulled over on any Friday, which is their revenue-drawing day.

PalenQ is the last person I'd be asking for cogent information about driving in France. I don't think he's set foot here for a decade. But it seems even he has finally realized an IDP is mandatory in France.

Your experience in England and Scotland doesn't count for anything because of the nature of the IDP requirement. It's all about having a legitimate translation of your license information. It might seem picky, and yes it is, but that's life. French gendarmes, even in tiny little backwater communities like the one I live in, are schooled in these matters, and they have the right to pull you over without cause and slam you with fines or worse for driving without the proper documentation.

You need an IDP (NOT an IDL). Get one.

Also note that speed limits in France are due to change on July 1 of this year, with reductions of the 90-kph limit on N roads to 80 kph, and that means that police will be all OVER motorists starting then, and the speed cameras (there are about 40,000 of them now in France and lots more coming) will be working overtime.

IDP's. translations, or all else aside, it's those speed cameras that should send a shudder through US drivers in France. Here, the style is to drive at or above the signed speed limit, and, outside of speed traps, no one is pulled over for driving 5-6 mph over the limit. From what I glean, the speed limit in France is actually a limit, with cameras providing both detection and enforcement of those limits.

Will the new lower limits be signed or will drivers be required to know the limits even if no sign warns them??

Speed limit signs even now, before the changes, aren't always present. It's up to you to know. The French newspapers have been broadcasting information about the upcoming changes for months now, but that doesn't help foreign motorists. I imagine most N roads will be outfitted with new signs, but I doubt all of them can be or will be. But really, all you need to know is that the absolute limit on N roads will be 80. The old 30kph and 50kph signs, and the occasional 70kph and 60 kph signs, where they exist, will presumably stay in place.

Definitely getting an IDP now that I have heard from you all....we are going in May so well before the new speed limits go into effect---husband does the driving and he usually stays below the speed limit when driving--don't want to attract attention to ourselves..
even though I am sure the rental car screams RENTAL CAR--FOREIGNERS!!!

I don't know why one would hire a translator instead of paying AAA $15 or whatever, furthermore, it has to be notarized, I think. AAA ios the recognized entity to provide them and has the official forms. I have no idea why one wouldn't go to them.

I wouldn't notice if they ever put a hold on my CC or not, actually, the CC companies always give me humongous limits even though I've never asked for them to be that high. I think my CC limits may be up to $50K or something. I know they are at least $25K, but I do seriously doubt any rental car company could get away with putting a hold on your CC for the entire value of a car, as that easily could be over $25K. People would notice that and they just couldn't stay in business if they did that.

<<I am sure the rental car screams RENTAL CAR--FOREIGNERS!!!>>

You can cover up any rental company sticker on (usually) the rear window of the car if you want - there are any number of temporary solutions to that.

It used to be that the license plate was a clear indicator that the car was a rental because something like 95% of rental cars in France originated in one d�partement, and the d�partement number is always on the license plate. So that's not so much of an issue as it was, say, 10 years ago.

They don't prey on foreigners...duh. They don't even know you're a foreigner until they've pulled you over. French people can rent cars, too, of course. There's no reason to be extra-scared if you're driving a rental car, but if you're worried, cover up the rental car sticker, that's all.

But starting July 1 you can be sure cops will be all over the roads - major revenues to be taken in.

Get the darn INTERNATIONAL DRIVERS LICENSE AND ZERO DEDUCTIBLE. People scrimp on this but spend thousands on their vacations. I just don’t get it. Same goes for car insurance. I have rented cars in Europe for years and always get the zero deductible from the car company. Yes, it is an extra cost but the headaches you have dealing with an accident and a credit card company will hound you for months. Last November in Portugal someone dented the side of my car while it was parked. I returned it and the attendant said “No problem, zero deductible” and I walked away. No taking pictures of the car, the undercarriage, no stress. The thought of emailing and calling a foreign company and dealing with a language barrier is worth the extra cost.

Good advice rbfk50 - just a minor correction: >>Get the darn INTERNATIONAL DRIVERS LICENSE PERMIT . . . <<

Here are some posts that I have saved over the years regarding accident "claims". These are all 5 to 10 years old - but I think they are still informative.



Stu, I've posted a long and detailed report on our accident in Wales and the insurance procedures.
But to try to summarize, it took a total of 6 months to fully resolve. (For what it's worth, I'm not sure if would have been any different regardless of who handled the insurance).
When we reported it to Avis (for AutoEurope) they charged us a total of about $600 as a temporary payment against projected damage. This went on our credit card. From there we had quite a bit of confusion, partly because we remained in Europe for two more months and it was difficult getting things handled back and forth. We had some issues with the Wales police refusing to give us a copy of the accident report (saying it contained the names of witnesses whom we might retaliate against -- huh?), and Visa seemed to have a problem getting that report as well. It was finally a call to AutoEurope who in turn were able to get Avis as the owner of the vehicle to get a copy of that. There was also a lot of confusion about the total value of the car. Visa seemed not to understand that the car was considered totalled and had been sold as scrap, so the final bill reflected the amount of damage over what they were able to get for the car as scrap. They kept wanting to get finely itemized repair bills -- yet there were no repairs. Again, much of this confusion resulted because of our distance. In the end, we were finally billed nearly $6000 on the Visa card which covered us, but we immediately contested that, so they we didn't actually have to pay it, nor did we have to pay interest on it. Meanwhile within a month of that actual charge, they settled by sending us a check in full for the final amount, so we OK'd the charge on the card and paid it off. The final check included everything, even the towing of the wrecked vehicle and the storage of it until it was sold. In the end, we actually paid even less than our original contract (we reduced it by a day, as we were to have turned the car in the day after the wreck happened, and they even removed the surcharge we were originally being billed for turning it in at an airport, since obviously we weren't!

There was never any question with Avis that Visa would cover us and they said they'd work together on it, which they pretty much did.

We had always taken the full insurance from AutoEurope before as we too didn't want any hassle. But the bottom line is, if we HAD taken the full insurance, it would have ended up costing us about $700 or so more than it did, counting the still necessary deductible and the cost of purchasing that insurance. Was our hassle worth saving $700? YES!

Another report

On my last trip to Europe, in a fit of absent-mindedness or similar temporary brain failure, I took the Auto Europe rate with insurance, rather than relying on my Visa card coverage as I had always done in the past.

Of course, this was the one time I would have an accident. Although it was only a small fender-bender, the damage to the rental car was somewhat over €1100. Then I discovered that the Auto Europe insurance had a deductible of €500. I then wrongly assumed that my Visa would cover the deductible, which of course it would not, as I had not declined all insurance on the rental.

When I called the Visa insurer, I was told that if I had declined all insurance, I would have been covered from the first dollar for collision coverage. I would have been covered as well if I had been required to take the CDW, as in Italy.

This of course applies to CDW. Third party liability comes with the rental.

Moral (for me, anyway): If you have good credit card auto insurance coverage, use it.

another report

I'll offer a first hand account of dealing with credit card insurance. A few years ago I was rear ended in Annency. The other driver and I filled out the constat (an explanation of what had happened) and she agreed to meet at the local Pr�fecture to sign a d�claration de main courante (which basically absolved me of any liability).

The rental car company charged my credit card for the damage so I was required to make a claim with Visa. Even with the constat and the d�claration de main courante, the paperwork requested by Visa insurance seemed endless and took a good amount of time. Eventually, all claims were payed by the other person's insurance. However, I would be sure to understand fully my insurance coverage and how to fill out a constat before I rented a card in France.

Visa/MC will only reimburse expenses which they determine to be fair. The reimbursement may or may not cover your actual costs after an accident. The only card insurance that I would even consider using would be the AMEX primary coverage at only $20/$25.



Stu Dudley

<<However, I would be sure to understand fully my insurance coverage and how to fill out a constat before I rented a card in France.>>

Very good point. I would guess that at least 99% of people never even open the green insurance folder that comes with the rental car, never mind look at the Constat, which is going to be utterly necessary to fill out in case of an accident of any kind, even a minor thing, like a small dent or a broken side mirror.

You don't need an IDP if you come from a state that has adopted the international licence format with number codes (numbers do not need to be translated!). I think that maybe only about 20 of the 50 American states have adopted this format so far, but maybe yours has done so.

For example, here is one with the numbers, totally valid throughout the EU. (Click on the image to see it better.)

My last rental accident claim was about 4 years ago, sliding on the ice into the side of another car in Paris that had slided through a red light. We filled out the accident report, which I gave to Europcar when I returned the car. My car didn't really have any damage, just a front bumper that had popped out of its setting. Nevertheless, Europcar debited me for the 800 euro deductible. I submitted a claim to my Gold Mastercard issuer, since that card covers all accident needs and which is the reason I always just keep the basic coverage on the car. Gold Mastercard refunded the deductible within two weeks. After about two months, Europcar refunded the deductible, too, even though I had asked for nothing. Best accident I ever had! I came out 800 euros ahead.

So, where does find a list of the 20 states that comply?

Just looking at the PA license tells me nothing whether Michigan is one.

Separately, I happened to be looking at our charge for 16 days rental of Volkswagen Passat diesel 4-door in Provence. 12€/day, including VAT, excluding the 34€ charge for picking it up at the railroad station. Not bad. Booked in through Gemut.com, our go-to site.

It looks like Michigan does not comply yet -- no number codes in the boxes, just words.

kerouac---would like to find out if California is one of the states that does number codes not words in the boxes....what is the website that you are looking on??

>>would like to find out if California is one of the states that does number codes<<

If you have a CA drivers license -- you simply have to look at it to tell . . . (My newish one does not have the numbers.)