Mishka

Love Italy....froze to death in November? Remember - I am from Canada. We are frozen 6 months out of the year!!!! (however lately it has been over 90~!)

Patrick

"Because Rome demands more time--you can see Florence in 2 days."

So let me see. Bob and I are sitting at a table. The waiter puts down two wonderful Grand Marnier souffles which are still steaming from the oven. He also puts down two tiny plates with a packaged cookie on each of them. We both have a train to catch and time is limited.

Bob would eat the cookie because there's enough time to do so.

I'd take a bite or two of the Grand Marnier souffle and leave the rest "for later".

Jocelyn_P

Interesting analogy, Patrick, although I don't think I agree. First of all, most people would agree with you that two bites of a Grand Marnier souffle is better than a two bite packaged cookie (unless it's an Oreo, then all bets are off). I doubt the same percentage of travelers would agree that two days in Rome is THAT much better than two days in Florence. Two days in Rome could be overwhelming for a first-timer to Italy. How do you decide what to see? Think of all the things you were <i>so close</i> to and didn't get to experience. Not to mention being overwhelmed by the sheer magnitude and pace of the city. It takes a few days to appreciate the rhythm of this hectic, fascinating city. Florence, on the other hand, is very manageable in two days, and you're still seeing historically significant, breath-taking sights. Especially since the OP is going to return to Italy next year, I'd also save all of Rome for later, when it can be savored instead of rushed. This way, next year they could skip Florence altogether and perhaps add in the Amalfi Coast, Cinque Terre, or another destination.

tuscanlifeedit

It hardly matters what weather one is used to if one is going to the CT in November. Rain and cool weather is quite likely. Most ferries may not run at all due to sea conditions. Views may be limited. Shops and other businesses may be closed or have limited hours. If rain is prevalent, trails will be closed.

The Cinque Terre is quite out of the way for a short trip in November. I would scratch it and save it for a time of year when the weather will be more suited to a sea side trip. And for when you will have more time.

November really makes a difference. To me, although I like both cities and countryside, I tend to spend more time in cities in the winter and less time in the country. Shorter days, greater chance of rain, etc. all lead me to prefer places where there are plenty of bad weather distractions.

Siena is a nice base in Tuscany, as it is a smaller city and a bit more personal with less waiting in lines, etc. Florence won't have many lines in November, but since it isn't on your original plan, I say save it for another trip.

I like the very first plan that you layed out and changed: &quot;Our original plan was to spend 2-3 days in Rome, get to Sienna or nearby and do day trips to Tuscany villages, then head to Venice for 2 days.&quot;

You'll just get a little taste of everything, but you will have done what you set out to do: Rome, Tuscany, and Venice.

Of course, everyone will offer different advice. The prevalent advice of seasoned travelers seems to be that 4 stops is too many for your time frame, and I agree.

bobthenavigator

Oh come on!
Of course I do not prefer Florence to Rome, but Rome is to be savored when you can truly enjoy it. Sorry, I thought that was clear.

Patrick

Bob, no offense, but it was totally clear. My point was the same. A souffle should be savored also. But I'd rather have a bite of a souffle even if I didn't have the time to savor it, than an entire packaged cookie. I'd rather have two days &quot;tasting&quot; Rome than two days thoroughly seeing Florence. Again -- that's just me.

And, Jocelyn, I only meant that analogy as it applies to me. Some may prefer Florence or even love it a lot, but to ME the difference between the souffle and a cookie is no greater than the difference between Rome and Florence.

I view this as one of those &quot;we only have one extra day in London to go to Paris; should we?&quot; questions. To which my stock answer is you can't begin to appreciate Paris in a day, but one day in Paris is better than no days in Paris.

But I did miss that post where Mishka said they plan to go back next year for three weeks. That certainly could change things -- or was that only kidding?

Mishka

It seems I have started quite the conversation and discussion amongst Fodor &quot;groupies&quot;. That is always good! I thank all of you for your comments and opinions. As for returning next year, something tells me we will fall in love and want to return asap. I have joked with my partner that I may never leave! (I am sure that I have European blood as I love fine wine, great food, long meals and great friends/conversations!). Needless to say, this trip will indeed be a great experience. Thanks again -- I am sure to ask more questions as we continue to plan!!!!
Mishka

ahotpoet

But that's how Fodorites are, especially the ones on the European board. Like one big, crazy, passionate, opinionated, Italian family, each having their say, over a big Sunday dinner of heaping plates of pasta.
Now, do you want my opinion? Since you said you do not like lines and touristy things I would say that in November you don't have much to worry about. Rome is fascinating and Florence is charming. I also like Torino. You don't hear much about it though. If you have the option, get a car and wander the whole time until you get to Venice, turn the car in and then settle in there for a few days. You never have to go near a big city if you don't want to but the architecture makes it so worth it.

faredolce

I have been to all the cities/areas metioned in the original post in November, except the Cingue Terre, and all have been wonderful in their own way, weather not withstanding. I think for the time you have, you can do TWO locations, that's it. Seriously. I drone on and on about this, but getting from one location to another, checking in, checking out, navigating, transportation issues, packing and unpacking - all of these things take up lots of time, much more time than one anticipates, and by the time you get even slightly oriented to where you are, its time to pick up and go again.

That being said, I think the answer lies in what you want to experience in terms of priorities and desires - do you long to be in Rome, or Tuscany? Is Venice a must or a passing fantasy? The answer is only going come to you with more research if you haven't really come up with what you really long to do. Each place is wonderful in its own way. Eliminating part of your plan is hard, but once you really narrow it down, your plans will become more focused and you will become really excited about those two places.

All of that being said, I think you should concentrate on Rome and Siena/Tuscany. November is a great time to be in Rome, the weather will still be nice and it is less crowded. Depending on what portion of the month it is, you will be in Tuscany during the &quot;olio nuovo&quot; season, when olives are pressed and the new oil is like nothing you have ever tasted. You may even be in time for the first of the truffles, and porcini will be around as well. (a bit of chef perspective there).

Whatever you decide, I am sure you will have a great trip! Good luck!

tashak

And just to add to the confusion, in November, I don't think you will have much in the way of crowds and lines. It may be one of the best times to visit Rome and Florence, and possibly Venice too. However make sure you avoid the All Saints Day holiday weekend -- we made that mistake on one trip to Venice and it was exceedingly crowded with European tourists. As soon as that holiday ended...Poof! Empty!

I do agree with the person who said that Nov is not the best time for Cinque Terra... When the weather gets rainy/foggy/heavily overcast (as it can...not all the time, but some of the time) I prefer to be in a place that has lots of indoor options. The perfect time for a leisurely trip to museums, long lunches...

Mishka

Ahotpot.....thanks for your comments. Where is Torino? Why do you like it?

ahotpoet

Torino is NW Italy, not far from France. The 2006 winter Olympics will be there and they are getting ready for it in a big way. There is a different feel to this place. It is industrial yet there is a grace and old world charm that I found quite calming. It is a very nice walking city. They make cars there. We went to the car museum which I found fascinating. There is a museum of cinema history, which Hollywood would be proud to have. There are good markets. Driving into town was so beautiful with the snowcapped mountains. See it now. Once the Olympics come it will be forever changed.

tashak

Mishka, if you are really planning to return, why go to Cinque Terrra during a season when it might not be so beautiful or pleasant. Yes, for someone who knows a place, the off-season can be wonderful, but if this is a first trip to the area, I think this is a risky strategy.

I would also second the comments of everyone who said that Rome and Florence would not be very crowded or busy in November. And if you do find it to &quot;urban&quot; for your tastes, their are plenty of small towns near both for you to investigate by train, bus or car.

Now given your tastes, I wouldn't suggest a place like Milan or Torino--to &quot;urban&quot;. But Florence is not a city at all--more a walkable small town with a surfeit of the greatest art in the world. Rome is not particularly urban either. But if it is too big for your tastes, you could head off to some of the hilltowns or to interesting places like Orvieto for an easy day trip (even by train.)