This may seem like a silly question, but . . . <BR> <BR>In a Paris cafe (not a restaurant) should we seat ourselves or wait to be seated by someone? I don't want to take a table if I'm not supposed to and possibly be ignored by the staff, but don't want to just stand there like a putz either. I've never found any guidence on this in any travel guide. Thanks for your help! <BR>

You just sit down in a cafe. However, you may well be ignored anyway in a Parisian cafe by the waiter, depending on his/her mood (ha, ha, ha)--and you can bet you may spend hours trying to figure out how to get the bill and pay it. (Actually, this summer I was in Austria and, if anything, they were even worse there about bringing the bill). I mean, I like to linger in cafes, but sometimes it gets ridiculous if you need to be going somewhere. It's pretty much like the rules anywhere, I think--if you are supposed to be seated by a waiter, there will be one standing at the entrance with a menu greeting people--even if seating someone, they wouldn't be gone more than a couple minutes. I have never seen this in any cafe in Paris, only in restaurants, and sometimes in brasseries and bistros. There are some cafes that have an interior restaurant and an outer casual sidewalk cafe, and here you may be seated in the more formal restaurant area, but not usually even then in a cafe--the more formal area is most likely marked by having table settings and tablecloths. But, as I said, it's usually obvious by the staff's position. And, when in doubt, just watch what others do for a few minutes, shouldn't take long. <BR>

Brian, Outside, seat yourself; inside, do as the "Romans" do, but we've found that inside it's mostly being seated. Re getting the bill, to us it's not McDonald's philosophy, get 'em in, get 'em out. Rather, you can linger over a coffee, wine or even water. When you're ready to leave, the universal sign of writing on your palm with your forefinger works every time, at least for us.

Generally, the waiters allow you to sit until you ask for the bill. Signal the waiter and say, "L'addition, s'il vous plaît." If you can't carry that off, Richard's advice of writing on your palm should do the trick. <BR>

I agree with the above posting. When you are ready to leave you just place the cash on the table in small cafes (unless you need change). This worried me a bit at first but it seemed to be the norm throughout France.

First, be advised that there is a difference between a cafe and a restaurant (or bistro, brasserie, etc.) with tables and chairs outside. Sometimes it's difficult to tell the difference since restaurants often have "cafe" in their name and many cafes do not. But, here's a huge tip. If, outdoors, the tables are set with placemats and/or flatware and glassware, assume that you should wait to be seated. Indoors, or outdoors, always be on the lookout for a podium. If you see one of these, or something similar, assume you will be seated. Otherwise, just seat yourself. Many Americans feel ignored when the waiter does not rush right over or bring the check upon serving, or stop by the table every couple of minutes. It's just their version of professional service, which requires that patrons are allowed an opportunity to settle in and decide what they'd like, are never rushed, and never encouraged to leave (by providing the tab unrequested). In France, you are expected to ask for the check, and it is never brought until you ask. Note also that many traditions are quite different. For example, butter is always served with a croissant (which seems rather redundant) but almost never with a breadbasket - although, it will be cheerfully provided upon your request. It's fun to note that in some restaurants, butter is served with bread to the Americans, but not to the French. Also, for some reason, they add cream to their coffee only first thing in the morning, but never later in the day. Again, just ask for it, or just order a cafe creme (which is actually cappuccino). But, never worry about being ignored. The pace of service is just more leisurely. Another interesting difference is that a Parisian will spend hours and hours at a table having only one coffee or beer or whatever. At the beginning of our visit, we were a bit annoyed that the waiter didn't come by to see if we wanted another cup of coffee, but we figured out that this is because the natives simply do not have more than one. The book Cheap Eats in Paris has a wonderful chapter in the front about dining/cafe customs in Paris, along with fabulous recommendations in all the neighborhoods.

One of the hardest things to get my husband to undderstand was that the reason coffee is so expensive in cafes is they EXPECT you to sit for a while! [He's getting better at it...] <BR>I always said "L'addition, s'il vous plaît" when I wanted the bill, but I learned this year that the sophisticated thing to say these days is "La note, s'il vous plaît." And *always* call the waiter "monsieur" NEVER "garcon"! <BR>

Brian, <BR>Donna and S. Fowler have provided a veritable Culture 101 in cafe and brasserie etiquette. The other respondents are no slouches either <BR>I would like to reinforce a couple of points. Unlike their American counterparts, French waiters generally go to school to learn their craft or metier. I go to a little pizzeria in Clermont-Ferrand from time to time and have been served by the same 2 waiters since 1988. The same cook is in the kitchen. While they know me on sight and discreetly show it, they would never think of initiating conversation. It would be unprofessional. Timing for a French waiter is everything. They will not appear at a moment when it would interupt your conversation. They will never do anything that would appear to hurry you. Their ultimate goal is to be invisible by making things appear and disappear with the least disturbance. They are trying to ensure you have an enjoyable dining experience. And all this at a simple pizzeria! <BR>The difficulty for Americans is we define good service as fast. To a francais a meal is to be lingered over. The best advice I can give you is to savor what's around you, sit near a window or outdoors so you can watch the women and enjoy. <BR>

Ah, yes! The very best way to be ignored in a restaurant is to shout "Garcon!". I had forgotten about that one. For that matter, you will notice that Parisians seems speak practically under their breath to each other as though they are sharing secrets. Dining establishments stateside are very loud by comparison. So, if you receive odd looks from folks at other tables, you may be inadvertently speaking too loudly to your companion(s) (hence, the term "loud Americans"). Another huge faux pas is to speak critically in English about the establishment, the menu, the French people, or whatever, assuming that no one around you understands English. I always find it so amusing that American tourists assume, on the one hand, that "they all speak some English", but on the other assume that they do not. Anyway, overheard negative comments can result in being totally ignored, not to mentioned being "sniffed" at. Absolutely, one of the ultimate pleasures in Paris is watching the passing parade.

I enjoy the replies as usual they are very good, I would like to add something to Joel great reply: one more difference with some american waiters, ...I do not know who told some American waiters that is cool to keep asking the customers:"Everything OK?" no European waiter asks this question in the way it is asked here, the funny thing.... try to tell the waiter who asked you that something is not OK..... <BR>---- <BR>One little thing you must know Brian: it often depends in what section you choose to sit , or if you choose to stand by the bar, how much the cafe will charge you for the same item. <BR> <BR>

Brian, thanks for reminding me of why I travel. I've been to Paris so many times that cafes are like second homes; I forgot how *I* didn't know what to do the first time I went to a Parisian cafe! It's not just the great art or cathedrals or mountain vistas that make travel so enriching; it's the learning about the culture and habits and protocol that teaches us how diverse we are...and how much alike we are. <BR> <BR>Joel's right; waiters are pros. If you need to get their attention, just swivel around and start looking. They've got radar and know when you're looking for them. The "scribbling in the palm of the hand" mime works great, especially if your waiter is clear on the other side of a noisy cafe, and you catch his eye. <BR>Have one for me while you're in Paris... a votre sante!

Thanks to everyone for your responses! I will certainly feel much more at ease when we go in March. I will try to have one for each of you! <BR>

Ah, Paris! Thanks to Brian for this subject on cafes as all of the response posts brought back such wonderful memories. My first trip to Europe (and only, thus far - soon to be my second trip in March to Denmark) was to Paris last April. Mostly business, but took a couple days for pleasure. I absolutely adored sitting in the cafes/brasseries/bistros. Writing on the palm of your hand always brought the check to my table. (Of course, deciphering the so-called "check" was an activity in itself!!) I loved the leisurely pace and the fact that you could sit at your table all day with no one rushing you. I searched out places where I could use my, albeit, broken French with the staff. I preferred non-English speaking environments because it forced me to use French. I enjoyed it and, I believe, so did others. I received many a friendly smile - even a chuckle at my attempts to remember my grade school and high school French. Sorry, for going on, but this topic really hit home. With so little time when I went to Paris, my first priority was taking in the "sounds, sights, smells" of Paris and sitting in a cafe afforded me that opportunity.

This is the best bunch of postings I've participated in. Clearly, the French brasserie or restaurant is the quintessential French experience and brings back some of the warmest memories. Here's a good one: My wife, a somewhat authoritarian lady, and I were in a crowded brasserie back in about 1990. Two 20'ish girls at the next table were smoking up a storm (as the French will) and their brand (as with most French cigarettes) was really, really strong. They were blowing their smoke right into my wife's face, although I'm sure no insult was intended. My wife and I were both speaking french so it's improbable that we were annoying them as tourists might. <BR>Well, my wife gets p.o.'ed and starts using her hand to blow the smoke back at them. Situation went downhill rapidly, let me tell you, and I didn't know the extent of my wife's vocabulary until just then, but she had been working in a french factory as a first line supervisor for awhile so she could hold her own. Overall, not your usual brasserie experience. <BR>

Joel 's reply brought some memories to me, and a charming one, we were with my husband some years ago, <BR>(may be 10...?) on the terrace of a cafe , it was a terrace with glasses all around, a French gentleman in his 50 or so sitting next to us, of course in another table, asked me before starting smoking his cigar, if it didn't bother me, .......I was younger then, and of course he knew we were not French, ...I felt great that day. <BR> <BR> <BR>

Joel 's reply brought some memories to me, and a charming one, we were with my husband some years ago, <BR>(may be 10...?) on the terrace of a cafe , it was a terrace with glasses all around, a French gentleman in his 50 or so sitting next to us, of course in another table, asked me before starting smoking his cigar, if it didn't bother me, .......I was younger then, and of course he knew we were not French, ...I felt great that day. <BR> <BR> <BR>