Buying Train Tickets on line in advance of Trip to Italy
Jul 20th, 2014, 08:54 AM
#41
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On August 20th, Rail Europe seems to have all the trains leaving from Venice Mestre at a cheapest fare of $44 and all the trains leaving from Venice S. Lucia at $67. On Trenitalia, all of these have €29 (about $40) fares>
I just looked at RE site and it has a train leaving Mestre for $29 on trenitalia.com and several trains from Venice S L for $46 - just a few bucks more than trenitalia's 29 euro fares and if you add in foreign exchange charges about the same.
<Basically it looks as though on RailEurope, if you're willing to use inconvenient stations, you can get tickets with a markup of a mere 38% (counting the delivery fee), while if you opt for convenience, you will pay a 250% markup> - This is true perhaps for what you found but which I find today and three days ago makes RE about the same as trenitalia - take another look - lots of $46 fares - several on trenitalia on RE site - not the $67 you saw - I suggest you take another look before spewing about that 250% markup nonsense - misinformation if you mean that generally - fares can even be cheaper than trenitalia.com on RE - the new RE Italian fares not the old in your mind perhaps.
I just looked at RE site and it has a train leaving Mestre for $29 on trenitalia.com and several trains from Venice S L for $46 - just a few bucks more than trenitalia's 29 euro fares and if you add in foreign exchange charges about the same.
<Basically it looks as though on RailEurope, if you're willing to use inconvenient stations, you can get tickets with a markup of a mere 38% (counting the delivery fee), while if you opt for convenience, you will pay a 250% markup> - This is true perhaps for what you found but which I find today and three days ago makes RE about the same as trenitalia - take another look - lots of $46 fares - several on trenitalia on RE site - not the $67 you saw - I suggest you take another look before spewing about that 250% markup nonsense - misinformation if you mean that generally - fares can even be cheaper than trenitalia.com on RE - the new RE Italian fares not the old in your mind perhaps.
Jul 21st, 2014, 04:49 AM
#42
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Palenq, I compared specific trains on the two sites, something which you aren't doing. It makes no sense to say, "I see $44 trains here and €39 trains there." To make a comparison, they have to be the same trains.
I compared trains on two different days and didn't see any that were a great value on RailEurope. Not all the markups were 250%, but there definitely were multiple trains with such a high markup, and others with a markup of "only" 38%. In every single case, the trains with the lower markup were not departing from the main stations in the respective cities. I don't see any point on paying 20% extra for the "comforts" of second class and then putting yourself through the hassle of getting a train from Firenze Rifredi or Venezia Mestre. (The best-vale train I saw on RailEurope was from Mestre to Rifredi, for a double-whammy hassle.)
If you can find a specific train with a markup lower than that, tell us which specific train it was.
By the way, I'm one of the many Italians who doesn't ever ride Premium or Business or First Class unless I can get it at practically the same price as Standard or Second Class. The more expensive classes may be marginally nicer, but certainly not worth the extra cost. I recently rode on a first-class train from York to Glasgow, and that was worth the extra cost.
I compared trains on two different days and didn't see any that were a great value on RailEurope. Not all the markups were 250%, but there definitely were multiple trains with such a high markup, and others with a markup of "only" 38%. In every single case, the trains with the lower markup were not departing from the main stations in the respective cities. I don't see any point on paying 20% extra for the "comforts" of second class and then putting yourself through the hassle of getting a train from Firenze Rifredi or Venezia Mestre. (The best-vale train I saw on RailEurope was from Mestre to Rifredi, for a double-whammy hassle.)
If you can find a specific train with a markup lower than that, tell us which specific train it was.
By the way, I'm one of the many Italians who doesn't ever ride Premium or Business or First Class unless I can get it at practically the same price as Standard or Second Class. The more expensive classes may be marginally nicer, but certainly not worth the extra cost. I recently rode on a first-class train from York to Glasgow, and that was worth the extra cost.
Jul 21st, 2014, 09:34 AM
#43
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If you can find a specific train with a markup lower than that, tell us which specific train it was.>
I've already done that. Once again when I checked several days ago for Aug 20, 2014 RailEurope had lots of Venice SL to Florence SML trains at $23 - Trenitalia has 1 train at 19 euros - 2 at 22.50 euros and 7 at 29 euros.
23 euros even with a $7 handling fee per order is cheaper than 29 euros - in fact I could use you % and say that Trenitalia was like 25% higher even though it is just a few euros.
Nuff said - let the person do their own research and always check Raileurope for Italian train tickets and Italo Rail too (which I did not check as I was comparing fares on Trenitalia trains on each site.
Later when you checked the same day you found only $44 fares on RE - what happened? Beats me but that's what I saw - point is again always check both sources and if the same or cheaper use RailEurope because if something does go wrong then you're dealing with an American company (that is if you are an American) - the old Fodor's mantra which you perpetuate above with your silly 250% higher baloney - that RE is always way WAY more than Trenitalia is just a myth -again perpetuated by flimsy calculations like yours.
I will simply say in the future that at times RE may be as cheap or cheaper than Trenitalia.com - i did not check Italo Rail and did not say anything about them - I was comparing Trenitalia.com.
I've already done that. Once again when I checked several days ago for Aug 20, 2014 RailEurope had lots of Venice SL to Florence SML trains at $23 - Trenitalia has 1 train at 19 euros - 2 at 22.50 euros and 7 at 29 euros.
23 euros even with a $7 handling fee per order is cheaper than 29 euros - in fact I could use you % and say that Trenitalia was like 25% higher even though it is just a few euros.
Nuff said - let the person do their own research and always check Raileurope for Italian train tickets and Italo Rail too (which I did not check as I was comparing fares on Trenitalia trains on each site.
Later when you checked the same day you found only $44 fares on RE - what happened? Beats me but that's what I saw - point is again always check both sources and if the same or cheaper use RailEurope because if something does go wrong then you're dealing with an American company (that is if you are an American) - the old Fodor's mantra which you perpetuate above with your silly 250% higher baloney - that RE is always way WAY more than Trenitalia is just a myth -again perpetuated by flimsy calculations like yours.
I will simply say in the future that at times RE may be as cheap or cheaper than Trenitalia.com - i did not check Italo Rail and did not say anything about them - I was comparing Trenitalia.com.
Jul 21st, 2014, 09:47 AM
#44
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Byron, another good tip I received years ago to help with carry-on only sized luggage is to pack a small foldable duffle bag in the bottom of your rolling suitcase (carry-on sized). At the end of your trip, put your dirty laundry in the duffle bag and all of your souveniers in the rolling bag. Check the duffle bag and carry your souveniers home in the roller!
Jul 21st, 2014, 09:55 AM
#45
As was stated above, everybody boards at the same time. If you are able you might want to station yourself on the departing platform in advance so you can be one of the first to board. This affords you the opportunity to stow luggage before a lot of others board.
The coaches will be marked with their numbers either on the doors in illuminated signs or near each door with permanent numbers.
The coaches will be marked with their numbers either on the doors in illuminated signs or near each door with permanent numbers.
Jul 21st, 2014, 10:25 AM
#46
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<i><font color=#555555>"If you are able you might want to station yourself on the departing platform in advance"</font></i>
This is not smart advice, and it feeds the neurotic, insecure tendencies of hyper-vigilant tourists who insist on being the "first."
Track changes happen, and they often happen at the last minute. Unless you speak fluent Italian and can fully hear and understand the echoing announcements, you could find yourself stuck on the WRONG track, waiting to board the wrong train. By the time you realize what you did wrong and find your correct train/track, it will be fully boarded.
With reserved seats, being the first to board is a senseless endeavor. In over 30+ years of train travel in Italy, I've never seen anyone struggle to find a place for their luggage. On a recent train ride (in First Class, no less), a European family blocked the aisle with their enormous luggage. They were too busy futzing over their silly toy dog (which happened to be very cute). Passengers expressed dismay at them for blocking the aisle, but they didn't bother to help much. Only in Europe does a dog take preference over the safety of people.
This is not smart advice, and it feeds the neurotic, insecure tendencies of hyper-vigilant tourists who insist on being the "first."
Track changes happen, and they often happen at the last minute. Unless you speak fluent Italian and can fully hear and understand the echoing announcements, you could find yourself stuck on the WRONG track, waiting to board the wrong train. By the time you realize what you did wrong and find your correct train/track, it will be fully boarded.
With reserved seats, being the first to board is a senseless endeavor. In over 30+ years of train travel in Italy, I've never seen anyone struggle to find a place for their luggage. On a recent train ride (in First Class, no less), a European family blocked the aisle with their enormous luggage. They were too busy futzing over their silly toy dog (which happened to be very cute). Passengers expressed dismay at them for blocking the aisle, but they didn't bother to help much. Only in Europe does a dog take preference over the safety of people.
Jul 21st, 2014, 12:33 PM
#47
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If you can find a specific train with a markup lower than that, tell us which specific train it was. >
Aug 20 Rome to Florence:
RE has a Trenitalia high-speed train at 8:35 am for $44 - trenitlia.com has the same train for 29 euros or $40 - that seems to be a 10% mark up but if someone uses a credit card from a U S bank they often pay a 3% surcharge - add another buck to the Trenitalia price - now we have $44 vs $41 - about an 8% surcharge - now per order there is a $7 RE fee - most folks would order more than one train and more than one person.
Point is RE can be competitive on some trains and with the avalanche of complaints there is always on Fodor's about spending hours on trenitalia.com and not being able to get it to work.... etc some may find a few bucks extra priceless but to throw around a '250% mark up its misleading, inaccurate an inexcusable IMO.
Aug 20 Rome to Florence:
RE has a Trenitalia high-speed train at 8:35 am for $44 - trenitlia.com has the same train for 29 euros or $40 - that seems to be a 10% mark up but if someone uses a credit card from a U S bank they often pay a 3% surcharge - add another buck to the Trenitalia price - now we have $44 vs $41 - about an 8% surcharge - now per order there is a $7 RE fee - most folks would order more than one train and more than one person.
Point is RE can be competitive on some trains and with the avalanche of complaints there is always on Fodor's about spending hours on trenitalia.com and not being able to get it to work.... etc some may find a few bucks extra priceless but to throw around a '250% mark up its misleading, inaccurate an inexcusable IMO.
Jul 22nd, 2014, 05:53 AM
#48
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By the way, I'm one of the many Italians who doesn't ever ride Premium or Business or First Class unless>
I think you have to put your mindset into that of a foreign tourist who is typically hauling a lot of luggage around - I assume you do not and in that case first-class is a bit easier as there are fewer people in each same-size train car, etc and often IME empty seats in first class, often not in 2nd class.
And those seats with just one in a row - to some worth a lot - now if I was traveling around Italy like a local I'd probably go 2nd class but on the trip of a lifetime - a one shoot deal I recommend first class - there is some reason many Italians do pay extra for first class as there are inevitably first-class cars on inter-city Italian trains.
So I think being a tourist with lots of luggage is a bit different than being a local traveling with very little bagage probably.
But I grant you the difference between classes on Italian trains is not nearly as great as in the UK where 2nd class can be IME much much more uncomfy that 1st class.
I think you have to put your mindset into that of a foreign tourist who is typically hauling a lot of luggage around - I assume you do not and in that case first-class is a bit easier as there are fewer people in each same-size train car, etc and often IME empty seats in first class, often not in 2nd class.
And those seats with just one in a row - to some worth a lot - now if I was traveling around Italy like a local I'd probably go 2nd class but on the trip of a lifetime - a one shoot deal I recommend first class - there is some reason many Italians do pay extra for first class as there are inevitably first-class cars on inter-city Italian trains.
So I think being a tourist with lots of luggage is a bit different than being a local traveling with very little bagage probably.
But I grant you the difference between classes on Italian trains is not nearly as great as in the UK where 2nd class can be IME much much more uncomfy that 1st class.
Jul 22nd, 2014, 07:30 AM
#49
I will say this <B>again</B>: station yourself on the platform with your luggage. There will be plenty of time to do so and those supposed frequent "track changes" mentioned above are rare. When you arrive and find out that not everybody is wearing white tennis shoes as was purported by the Snob you'll understand.
Jul 22nd, 2014, 10:55 AM
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Most platforms will have a "Make Up of Trains" board where it pinpoints where each train car should stop on the platform - like dukey says station yourself near where you will actually board - better than trying to scoot to another place with baggage to catch the right car - train cars will have numbers on their outside that should match the one on your Italian ticket/reservation placard.
And yes if you see the whole crowd bolt suddenly and head for another platform just follow them - in case of sudden track changes.
And yes if you see the whole crowd bolt suddenly and head for another platform just follow them - in case of sudden track changes.
Jul 22nd, 2014, 11:08 AM
#51
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You guys are hilarious - great info - bookmarking - as I too will have the mind boggling task of deciding between first and second class next March. But I will be well equipped to make a decision. Thanks!
Jul 22nd, 2014, 03:09 PM
#52
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I noticed that the 8:15 train from Rome to Florence costs $64 on Rail Europe, while it's €29 on Trenitalia. You can find lower markups if you cherry pick the results.
Let's just say the markups are all over the place.
By the way, Italiarail.com has consistent pricing, lower markups, and a lower reservation fee. And it doesn't include peripheral stations in your search results unless you specifically request them.
Let's just say the markups are all over the place.
By the way, Italiarail.com has consistent pricing, lower markups, and a lower reservation fee. And it doesn't include peripheral stations in your search results unless you specifically request them.
Jul 22nd, 2014, 03:28 PM
#53
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<i><font color=#555555>"I will say this again"</font></i>
Repeating dumb advice does not make you appear any smarter.
<i><font color=#555555>"and those supposed frequent "track changes" mentioned above are rare"</font></i>
And you know this because you stand on the platforms in Italy, 24/7, and analyze the frequency? Where do you get the gall to say such things?
Dear readers, there is plenty of user-information on the internet which speaks to the regularity of track changes. Many Italian users post, claiming track changes are as often as gate changes at airports. There are a lot of handicapped people who don't want to rush to their train so they inquire about this. All the smartest advice tells them to stay near the main board and wait for the correct track to be posted, to avoid unnecessary walking and hassle. There is always plenty of time to find your track and board safely (unless you didn't plan properly).
Repeating dumb advice does not make you appear any smarter.
<i><font color=#555555>"and those supposed frequent "track changes" mentioned above are rare"</font></i>
And you know this because you stand on the platforms in Italy, 24/7, and analyze the frequency? Where do you get the gall to say such things?
Dear readers, there is plenty of user-information on the internet which speaks to the regularity of track changes. Many Italian users post, claiming track changes are as often as gate changes at airports. There are a lot of handicapped people who don't want to rush to their train so they inquire about this. All the smartest advice tells them to stay near the main board and wait for the correct track to be posted, to avoid unnecessary walking and hassle. There is always plenty of time to find your track and board safely (unless you didn't plan properly).
Jul 22nd, 2014, 03:42 PM
#54
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I've taken maybe a zillion train rides all over Europe and a lot in Germany - track changes are relatively unusual and yes I base this by standing on platforms at times for hours because I not only take a lot of trains but being a rail spotter - spending hours on platforms watching trains roll in and out.
Not rare for it to happen but not ordinarily. So yes I base this on zillions of examples.
NYFoodSnob makes track changes sound like usual but IME they are not - can always happen but in small minority of cases.
Dukey's advice IMO was not dumb and it is something I always do too - to facilitate boarding and finding me seat before swarms of others come aboard.
But there can always be a sudden track change - everywhere starts at a breakneck speed for the other track - well anyway I dare say I have a zillion more train rides in my history than you may- not sure but I'd bet the bank on that.
Not rare for it to happen but not ordinarily. So yes I base this on zillions of examples.
NYFoodSnob makes track changes sound like usual but IME they are not - can always happen but in small minority of cases.
Dukey's advice IMO was not dumb and it is something I always do too - to facilitate boarding and finding me seat before swarms of others come aboard.
But there can always be a sudden track change - everywhere starts at a breakneck speed for the other track - well anyway I dare say I have a zillion more train rides in my history than you may- not sure but I'd bet the bank on that.
Jul 22nd, 2014, 03:58 PM
#55
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In Italian train stations, there are printed paper schedules posted about the station with the usual track for each train. This is not an iron-clad guarantee and the real track may be different, especially for trains that don't originate at the station.
Tracks are announced on the electronic boards about 20 minutes before departure. Once this announcement is made, a track change is very rare. It's only happened to me once or twice.
Frequent travelers usually stand near the head of the usual track with an eye on an electronic departures board. If you take a train frequently, you'll know which is the usual track.
Tracks are announced on the electronic boards about 20 minutes before departure. Once this announcement is made, a track change is very rare. It's only happened to me once or twice.
Frequent travelers usually stand near the head of the usual track with an eye on an electronic departures board. If you take a train frequently, you'll know which is the usual track.
Jul 22nd, 2014, 04:30 PM
#56
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>>In Italian train stations, there are printed paper schedules posted about the station with the usual track for each train.<<
I'm one of those who likes to beat the mad rush but I've never been able to find these paper schedules. I've searched and searched at Milan Central, with luggage in tow, and then I give up exhausted. That station is too big to be looking for a piece of paper. I don't speak a word of Italian, so who can I ask without feeling like an idiot? Then what do I ask for?
My recent train to Venice did have a last minute track change and it did cause some confusion. I remember thinking how glad I was that I wasn't standing on the wrong platform. I don't think you can see the board from the train platform side of the terminal, at least at Milan. I wouldn't have understood a word of the announcement.
I'm one of those who likes to beat the mad rush but I've never been able to find these paper schedules. I've searched and searched at Milan Central, with luggage in tow, and then I give up exhausted. That station is too big to be looking for a piece of paper. I don't speak a word of Italian, so who can I ask without feeling like an idiot? Then what do I ask for?
My recent train to Venice did have a last minute track change and it did cause some confusion. I remember thinking how glad I was that I wasn't standing on the wrong platform. I don't think you can see the board from the train platform side of the terminal, at least at Milan. I wouldn't have understood a word of the announcement.
Jul 22nd, 2014, 06:34 PM
#57
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You do not have to understand an iota of the announcement - just go with the flow - all others dashing away just follow the crowd. A huge worry about nothing! Been in many of those situation - they always hold up the train until everyone has time to comfortably trek over to the new platform.
Track changes - a non-issue that happens relatively rarely, again based on zillions of train rides.
Track changes - a non-issue that happens relatively rarely, again based on zillions of train rides.
Jul 22nd, 2014, 07:22 PM
#58
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<i><font color=#555555>"NYCFoodSnob makes track changes sound like (they're) usual"</font></i>
I have no idea how often they occur. That's not the point. They do occur.
<i><font color=#555555>"Dukey's advice IMO was not dumb and it is something I always do too - to facilitate boarding and finding me seat before swarms of others come aboard."</font></i>
Anxious, impatient people irritate me. Nothing I say is going to change their personality profile or their behavior. Finding your seat before the other swarms come aboard, knock yourself out.
Encouraging newbies with no command of the local language to play this silly hurry-up-and-wait game, IMO, is DUMB. It's not thoughtful advice, no matter how many times you say otherwise.
<i><font color=#555555>"I've taken maybe a zillion train rides all over Europe…spending hours on platforms watching trains roll in and out."</font></i>
Now that's some impressive scientific analysis. Not sure what to say about the lifestyle.
I have no idea how often they occur. That's not the point. They do occur.
<i><font color=#555555>"Dukey's advice IMO was not dumb and it is something I always do too - to facilitate boarding and finding me seat before swarms of others come aboard."</font></i>
Anxious, impatient people irritate me. Nothing I say is going to change their personality profile or their behavior. Finding your seat before the other swarms come aboard, knock yourself out.
Encouraging newbies with no command of the local language to play this silly hurry-up-and-wait game, IMO, is DUMB. It's not thoughtful advice, no matter how many times you say otherwise.
<i><font color=#555555>"I've taken maybe a zillion train rides all over Europe…spending hours on platforms watching trains roll in and out."</font></i>
Now that's some impressive scientific analysis. Not sure what to say about the lifestyle.
