Go Back  Fodor's Travel Talk Forums > Destinations > Europe
Reload this Page >

Brutal Crack Down on Peaceful Environmental Protest

Brutal Crack Down on Peaceful Environmental Protest

Old Jul 8th, 2013, 03:10 PM
  #301  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 57,091
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
if nothing else works, will the drying up of the tourist $ affect their behaviour?

because much more of this and Turkey is going to be as popular as Egypt.
annhig is offline  
Old Jul 9th, 2013, 11:14 AM
  #302  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Can anyone recommend other sites in English for coverage of demonstrations/unrest in the rest of Turkey as well as Istanbul? I have been following this thread with great interest, as my husband and I have a trip planned to Istanbul and Antalya at the end of August. I certainly hope things have returned to normal by then (whatever that means), and I understand that many places are generally safe if one stays away from demonstrations. However, I was told the same in Paris in 1994, stayed away from where I was told the demonstrations were likely to be, they spread, and I got tear-gassed. As asthma and tear gas are not a fabulous combination, and as I now also have a bum ankle and can’t run away, I need to be cautious.

Right now I am developing a series of backup plans involving staying out of Istanbul and/or just getting off the plane in Istanbul, bagging our domestic flight to Antalya, and hopping a bus to the Bulgarian Black Sea coast, but sincerely hope to be able to stick to the original plan. Any thoughts?
evaluna68 is offline  
Old Jul 9th, 2013, 01:31 PM
  #303  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,326
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
evaluna68,

I cannot predict 100% but so far, and even during the worst times, there was nothing going on in the old city, Sultanahmet and Sirkeci area where all the major historic sites are like the Blue Mosque, Hagia Sophia, Topkapi Palace, Archeology Museum, Basilica Cistern, Chora Church, Rustem pasha Mosque, Grand Bazaar, Yeni Cami, Spice Bazaar.

The route from the airport to the old city is also free of any problems.

Thus, coming to Istanbul, visiting the sites and also taking a short or longer Bosphorus cruise (private or the regular) are trouble free. I will definitely warn on this thread if anything comes up.

Going to Antalya, you probably will not stay within the city. The resorts to the West especially but some of them to the East of Antalya are also terrific and your route from the airport will not pass through the city.. Hence, no problems there either.

The only issue I can see will be the heat which should be decreasing by the end of August but may still disturb when and if combined with high humidity.

A good source of information for everything related to the area will be Canmom on Trip Advisor on the Cirali and/or Antalya forums who is the Canadian owner of a hotel in Cirali, about 100 minutes West of Antalya airport.

You can start a thread on TA or even send a private message to Canmom if you wish.

I am also very busy on Twitter and tweet regularly on the situation as well as literary or philosophical junk.
https://twitter.com/ahmetcelebiler
otherchelebi is offline  
Old Jul 9th, 2013, 01:49 PM
  #304  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,326
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
The Taksim protesters seem to be doing everything correctly, so far.

Instead of acting or saying anything against any religion, race, sect, idea they built on brotherhood and the fact that everyone is being held under pressure the same way.

Hence, one of the participants in the protests after the first week or so was the "anti capitalist moslems"

Tonight, Istanbul municipality set up a free dinner organization for 1,500 on Taksim square with boxed dinners under the watchful eyes of the police. AND the protesters, most of whom were not fasting, joined the anticapitalist moslems in a simple breaking of the fast dinner from middle of Istiklal at Galatasaray all the way to Taksim Square with the food placed on paper or even newspapers in a long line, and people just sitting on the ground and everyone sharing whatever they could afford to bring themselves.

The major pro-protest channel Halk TV broadcast the call to prayer which signalled the breaking of the fast, from Dolmabahce mosque whose Imam withstood three long interrogations and threats to say that the protesters drank beer in the mosque and used it as their headquarters for three days. He only said that as a true moslem he could not lie. He had seen no one drinking and that there were many wounded from police attacks and he had opened the mosque doors to aid the wounded and the needy and that he would do it again if it was needed.

Later, many people, young and old and with kids flocked to Taksim square and park and were having a festive time at close to midnight, last time I looked.

Should put the governor and police to shame, but will not.

Turkey is not Egypt. In fact, I think that this political movement which grew out of an environmental sit-in is incredibly modern and democratic far surpassing anything I have seen anywhere, possibly with the exception of the anti-war protests of the 60s and 70s in the States, except that it has managed to garner much wider support.

There are at least ten new songs which came out of the demonstrations and their international supporters.

Check youtube under the word "capulcu"
otherchelebi is offline  
Old Jul 9th, 2013, 02:22 PM
  #305  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks – we had actually planned to stay in the old town in Antalya, but can easily change those reservations up until the last minute if need be. Have things been reasonably peaceful there?

As for Istanbul, I hear what you’re saying about Sultanahmet and other tourist areas being calm, but we were in Istanbul last in 2009, and I am leaning toward leaving those parts of Istanbul that we haven’t yet explored for some hypothetical future trip if things haven’t calmed down by August (which of course I hope they will, for everyone’s sake). I simply can’t risk inhaling tear gas given my crappy lungs. If it comes to that, we are inclined to check out some other part of Turkey instead if that seems safer (maybe Cappadocia? I don’t know), or even just spend the whole week in and around Antalya. But I am a contingency planner by nature (and by profession), and my husband, who lived for years in Beirut, thinks I am a little neurotic (which I admit to, but hey, it’s my job).

Anyway, we will certainly keep a close eye on things, and it’s kind of funny to think of the Balkans as being the peaceful backup vacation destination!
evaluna68 is offline  
Old Jul 10th, 2013, 07:09 AM
  #306  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Any scuttlebut on how the protests will affect Istanbul's chances for landing the 2020 Summer Olympics on September 7? I'm rooting for Istanbul but I have to believe that Tokyo is "licking its chops" on how the protests might improve its own chances.
MinnBeef is offline  
Old Jul 10th, 2013, 07:45 AM
  #307  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 26,243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We "somehow" ended up with a 2020 Olympics Istanbul v. Tokyo poster from our trip
sf7307 is offline  
Old Jul 10th, 2013, 08:21 AM
  #308  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The IOC is one of the most corrupt organizations in sport. The 2016 Summer Olympics are in Brazil and there are more problems there than in Turkey including dire poverty and wide spread corruption. There is little confidence they will be ready on time. But even the IOC would not want two back to back debacles.
BigAleinstein is offline  
Old Jul 10th, 2013, 08:41 AM
  #309  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 26,243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm not sure I'd limit that to sport.
sf7307 is offline  
Old Jul 10th, 2013, 12:55 PM
  #310  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,326
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
You're right sf. corruption is a favorite sport of the human kind starting long before the olympics.

The issues in Turkey will be solved one way or another by the year 2020 as the singer may have said some 35 years ago if it had rhymed.

Turkey will become a better delineated dictatorship and police state by then or will have managed to get rid of the yoke of the Islamic AK Party and the FG movement.
However, in either case, the Olympics means incredibly high expenses which are invariably not recovered, and the country is left with facilities which are seldom used again.
otherchelebi is offline  
Old Jul 10th, 2013, 03:09 PM
  #311  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 57,091
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
we'll have it back again.

we're got plenty of facilities like the Olympic stadium that we can't work out what to do with - we could just use them all again!
annhig is offline  
Old Jul 11th, 2013, 06:37 AM
  #312  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,326
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
48 leaders of various NGOs including the Chamber of Architects and Civil Engineers and the Istanbul Medical association, some of whom were among those who were consulted by the Prime Minister a month ago were detained a few days ago on the basis of demostrating without a permit and refusing arrest, they were kept in jail while their homes were searched (Why?) and now sent to court by the public prosecutor to be charged and arrested.

While, machete wielding attackers who attacked protesters and caused terror in the streets were allowed to go free by the prosecutor and the courts.

I have been writing a bit too much here and especially on Twitter and I hope you will get a petition going for me if they arrest me and Eser also.
otherchelebi is offline  
Old Jul 11th, 2013, 07:13 AM
  #313  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 17,905
Received 22 Likes on 4 Posts
I have been reading your Twitter feed and Fodors. Stay safe, ready to sign.
HappyTrvlr is offline  
Old Jul 11th, 2013, 09:53 AM
  #314  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 57,091
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
While, machete wielding attackers who attacked protesters and caused terror in the streets were allowed to go free by the prosecutor and the courts.>>

do you have such things as private prosecutions in Turkey? where a private citizen prosecutes another? it's something which is possible, though rare in the UK.

though it sounds as if taking such a step might be dangerous for one's health.
annhig is offline  
Old Jul 11th, 2013, 10:39 AM
  #315  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 26,243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Truly, stay safe. The one thing that was so striking to me when we were there was how open people were about discussing their support for the protestors and distaste for the government. Being a child of the American protests of the early 70s, I appreciate that!
sf7307 is offline  
Old Jul 11th, 2013, 02:34 PM
  #316  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,326
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
NGO leaders were released tonight, half an hour ago. Some because of lack of evidence in setting up an organization to incite the public to rebel, and others because demonstrating without a permit is not a criminal offense and does not require arrest.

One of those shot in the head with a pepper gas canister and was in critical health for 38 days, died and the body was taken to his family in Antioch, near the Syrian border, where about 10,000 gathered for the funeral. Demonstrations after the funeral were again attacked by the police and we have 14 more wounded now.
otherchelebi is offline  
Old Jul 13th, 2013, 03:04 PM
  #317  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We continue to follow your words carefully and with loving concern. Of course, we too would petition should anything happen to you, dear friends. Later this month I will be sharing some of your thoughts and observations on a small NPR radio station as one small act of solidarity. Dianne and I post new daily on Facebook. Lots and lots of love.
James
desertjames is offline  
Old Jul 13th, 2013, 11:44 PM
  #318  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,326
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
Thanks James,

Yesterday, There were 40th day of death rites for one of the dead at Antioch and police attacked them again. Residents on the streets started throwing chairs, sofas, futons and even water tanks on the armored police vehicles which were shooting gas and chemical liquids into homes as well as on the gathered mourners.

The prayers gave way to chants for the government to resign. How stupid can a government get.

Also Yesterday, there were demonstrations in Pennsylvania against F.G. the Islamic sect leader who owns about 140 schools in the United States and more than a thousand worldwide, only banned in a few countries for proselyting.

The protesters also submitted 570 page file to a district court and started proceedings against F.G.
One of the banners read "The most dangerous Islamic leader in the World : Fethullah Gulen"

United States, many school boards and especially State of Texas continues to support F.G. and his education charter and possibly political activity in the name of "moderate islam" which became an appalling mistake as seen in Egypt together with the Great Middle East Project.
otherchelebi is offline  
Old Jul 14th, 2013, 09:09 AM
  #319  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,326
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
Some tweets on our 35th anniversary :

Going back to Istanbul, hoping Istiklal will gain its soul after brutal police attacks against residents and guests.
pic.twitter.com/aBSlDsX26C


Our 35 years of marriage, the greatest adventure on Earth, a dark room with raw images, a Turkish bath of feelings and promises of much more
otherchelebi is offline  
Old Jul 14th, 2013, 01:05 PM
  #320  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 17,905
Received 22 Likes on 4 Posts
OC, Happy Annoversary to You and your bride.
HappyTrvlr is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -