British Tourists in the US
Jul 30th, 2008, 09:57 PM
#101
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Tips & Service Charges won't be able to be used to "top up" wages to to the minimum wage
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7533863.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7533863.stm
Jul 31st, 2008, 01:36 AM
#102
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"Then try this analogy then. Walk into Selfridge's this Saturday. Dress like a tourist or some other person just milling about for the day and aimlessly wander. Next Saturday, go in dressed better. Carry a "name" bag, if you are a woman. Look serious. I would be shocked if you don't find the service more attentive on your second visit."
I tend to be quite scruffy - if my clothes and body are clean I don't care that they would look better ironed or that I have no make up on.
I find that the more "quality" (sorry can't think of a better word) don't care. Even the ones where they have to buzz you in.
Although it does make a difference in 'ordinary' department stores.
I once went into a jewellers closely followed by a very smartly dressed lady. One of the sales team obviously smelled money and went to serve her ahead of me leaving the other assistant to serve me.
The other lady bought a watch battery at £5. I bought a watch at considerably more.
I just hope they earn commission there.
I tend to be quite scruffy - if my clothes and body are clean I don't care that they would look better ironed or that I have no make up on.
I find that the more "quality" (sorry can't think of a better word) don't care. Even the ones where they have to buzz you in.
Although it does make a difference in 'ordinary' department stores.
I once went into a jewellers closely followed by a very smartly dressed lady. One of the sales team obviously smelled money and went to serve her ahead of me leaving the other assistant to serve me.
The other lady bought a watch battery at £5. I bought a watch at considerably more.
I just hope they earn commission there.
Jul 31st, 2008, 04:35 AM
#103
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Geordi,
Most Americans dont understand there is an implied 2nd round. On the flip side, you gave them a great travel story. I cant tell you how many lit up faces have told me of an Englishman/couple buying them a drink.
Most Americans dont understand there is an implied 2nd round. On the flip side, you gave them a great travel story. I cant tell you how many lit up faces have told me of an Englishman/couple buying them a drink.
Jul 31st, 2008, 07:24 AM
#104
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I come at the tipping issue from different angles.
I waitressed in Toronto, Canada for over 13 years in the '70s and '80s - it was customary to receive a minimum of 10% and 15% for excellent service. At the time, 15% was the expected rate in NYC. I can't see how 20-25% is justified. I read on a recent forum that the French Laundry in the Napa has increased its fixed price menu from $125 to $250 over the past 5 years. Why would the percentage change? 15% of $150 was $18.00 - 25% is $60.00 - in a time of low inflation. If there is price inflation in meal cost that should be reflected in increased tips - if the percentage is going to escalate, eventually the tip will be 100% of the bill. Just doesn't make sense.
In Australia, the wages are good, with penalty rates they can be up to $30.00 per hour. I still leave a tip, sometimes up to 15%. One thing is that North America has a lot more full service lower end restaurants. In Australia, any where you sit down and get served costs a lot more, because of the wages. In Sydney, a soup and sandwich in a serviced restaurant will cost around $20.00. However, we have fantastic food courts where you get pick the food up yourself, the same for hotel meals in pubs. There may be a couple of people to clear tables or drop off a tray at your table. In a pub, you can get a 300 gm sirloin steak with veg for $15.00 and no tip. GST is built into that price.
On the other hand, meals in high end restaurants are far cheaper than equivalent restaurants in NYC or San Francisco, yet the wage bill would be exponentially higher. $2.65 vs up $20.00 ph - going up to $30.00 on public holidays. Waiters in those restaurants do expect tips. When out in a upper end restaurant with friends and relatives, I am a bit embarrassed if they don't tip which is a bit illogical. If any Australians are going to jump down my throat and say there is no tipping, I must assure them that at places like Level 41, Bilsons, Cafe Sydney, Ricardos and the Spirit House on the Sunshine Coast, tipping is a fact of life. Some customers don't, but the majority do.
I also worked in a Relais in France in the 80s. None of the service charge went to the staff. The "pour boire" (the few bits of change customers leave behind) was pooled and supposed to be distributed on a weekly basis by the Maitre D'. However, most weeks he would "borrow" for the races, and it wasn't replenished.
I waitressed in Toronto, Canada for over 13 years in the '70s and '80s - it was customary to receive a minimum of 10% and 15% for excellent service. At the time, 15% was the expected rate in NYC. I can't see how 20-25% is justified. I read on a recent forum that the French Laundry in the Napa has increased its fixed price menu from $125 to $250 over the past 5 years. Why would the percentage change? 15% of $150 was $18.00 - 25% is $60.00 - in a time of low inflation. If there is price inflation in meal cost that should be reflected in increased tips - if the percentage is going to escalate, eventually the tip will be 100% of the bill. Just doesn't make sense.
In Australia, the wages are good, with penalty rates they can be up to $30.00 per hour. I still leave a tip, sometimes up to 15%. One thing is that North America has a lot more full service lower end restaurants. In Australia, any where you sit down and get served costs a lot more, because of the wages. In Sydney, a soup and sandwich in a serviced restaurant will cost around $20.00. However, we have fantastic food courts where you get pick the food up yourself, the same for hotel meals in pubs. There may be a couple of people to clear tables or drop off a tray at your table. In a pub, you can get a 300 gm sirloin steak with veg for $15.00 and no tip. GST is built into that price.
On the other hand, meals in high end restaurants are far cheaper than equivalent restaurants in NYC or San Francisco, yet the wage bill would be exponentially higher. $2.65 vs up $20.00 ph - going up to $30.00 on public holidays. Waiters in those restaurants do expect tips. When out in a upper end restaurant with friends and relatives, I am a bit embarrassed if they don't tip which is a bit illogical. If any Australians are going to jump down my throat and say there is no tipping, I must assure them that at places like Level 41, Bilsons, Cafe Sydney, Ricardos and the Spirit House on the Sunshine Coast, tipping is a fact of life. Some customers don't, but the majority do.
I also worked in a Relais in France in the 80s. None of the service charge went to the staff. The "pour boire" (the few bits of change customers leave behind) was pooled and supposed to be distributed on a weekly basis by the Maitre D'. However, most weeks he would "borrow" for the races, and it wasn't replenished.
Jul 31st, 2008, 07:40 AM
#105
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Sarvowinner wrote: "I also worked in a Relais in France in the 80s. None of the service charge went to the staff."
That depends on how you view things. In France, service staff are paid a living wage, not a reduced wage that leaves them dependent on tips. The service charge is deemed to fund staff wages, and the system is mandatory.
Your account of the Maitre D' who borrowed from the tips fund, vexing though it must have been for you and your colleagues, says nothing about the merits of the system -- just something about the merits of one individual, and of the employer who allowed him to get away with it.
That depends on how you view things. In France, service staff are paid a living wage, not a reduced wage that leaves them dependent on tips. The service charge is deemed to fund staff wages, and the system is mandatory.
Your account of the Maitre D' who borrowed from the tips fund, vexing though it must have been for you and your colleagues, says nothing about the merits of the system -- just something about the merits of one individual, and of the employer who allowed him to get away with it.
Jul 31st, 2008, 04:59 PM
#106
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Padraig
I wasn't trying to make a value judgement, I was stating that the service charge in France doesn't necessarily go directly to the staff.
The Pour Boire incident was probably peculiar to that establishment. It was in the country and they hired very young staff from rural regions a long way from the inn, who they treated quite poorly as they were in a way captive. A similar thing happened at a resort I worked in in Alqonquin Park, Ontario.
I wasn't trying to make a value judgement, I was stating that the service charge in France doesn't necessarily go directly to the staff.
The Pour Boire incident was probably peculiar to that establishment. It was in the country and they hired very young staff from rural regions a long way from the inn, who they treated quite poorly as they were in a way captive. A similar thing happened at a resort I worked in in Alqonquin Park, Ontario.
